{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":null,"startTime":2.72,"endTime":4.67,"body":"Kevin: Welcome to Innovate and React."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4.73,"endTime":6.4,"body":"I am your host, Kevin Hares."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":6.59,"endTime":12.29,"body":"And this episode will be about sustainablechemistry and how we can replace"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":12.29,"endTime":18.11,"body":"critical materials like platinum groupelements, uh, in the synthesis, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":18.11,"endTime":24.89,"body":"are crucial catalysts for many importantreactions in the chemical industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":25.31,"endTime":28.38,"body":"And today I'm withSoumyadeep Chakrabrotty."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":28.67,"endTime":33.98,"body":"He is currently at the, May PlanckInstitute for Kohlenforschung."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":34.393,"endTime":35.913,"body":"Welcome, Soumyadeep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":36.322,"endTime":36.982,"body":"Soumyadeep: Hi Kevin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":37.042,"endTime":38.847,"body":"Uh, thank you much for the invitation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":39.337,"endTime":44.802,"body":"It's nice to see you and, I'm very muchlooking forward for today's discussion"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":45.082,"endTime":45.472,"body":"Kevin: Great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":46.012,"endTime":46.252,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":46.252,"endTime":48.082,"body":"it's, uh, nice to connect again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":48.082,"endTime":56.542,"body":"We met at the, uh, Likat in Rostock whereyou also did catalysis research and, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":56.782,"endTime":61.462,"body":"yeah, maybe for this discussion, let'sstart with the sustainable chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":61.912,"endTime":65.302,"body":"Like why do we need sustainable chemistry?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":65.352,"endTime":65.562,"body":"Soumyadeep: Let's."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":65.907,"endTime":70.527,"body":"Yeah, keep it, keep it a bit moregeneral for the sake of the audience."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":70.527,"endTime":75.057,"body":"So, as you probably know, likesustainable or chemistry in general"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":75.057,"endTime":81.287,"body":"is really, connected to, to our dailylife as well as, uh, starting for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":81.287,"endTime":83.447,"body":"Mitchells and synthesis for pharma."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":83.897,"endTime":84.647,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":85.267,"endTime":91.567,"body":"And, uh, nowadays, let's say in, inlast 20 years, or more than 20 years"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":91.567,"endTime":95.797,"body":"or so, there's increasing concernabout sustainability in chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":96.652,"endTime":101.407,"body":"Sustainable in chemistry ingeneral, it's a broad term, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":101.407,"endTime":104.577,"body":"So, um, it's pretty hard to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":105.677,"endTime":112.447,"body":"Let's say define or, or circle it, even ifyou improve a certain reaction, uh, let's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":112.447,"endTime":117.187,"body":"say from a hundred degrees centigrade toto 60 degrees centigrade or 50 degrees"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":117.187,"endTime":119.857,"body":"centigrade, that's even more sustainable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":119.907,"endTime":126.327,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, I think the, the goal alwaysis to go from like the past where this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":126.327,"endTime":131.607,"body":"cliche of the always polluting chemicalindustry where it's like they're just"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":131.637,"endTime":139.167,"body":"putting out all these toxic gases andtoxic waste water and they're just"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":139.167,"endTime":141.927,"body":"producing for the sake of their own money."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":142.257,"endTime":147.207,"body":"But especially in the chemical researchand in, in the recent years, this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":147.852,"endTime":153.012,"body":"Sustainable chemistry movement hasbeen really a motivation for a lot of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":153.012,"endTime":158.289,"body":"scientists to improve reactions, makethem more efficient in terms of energy,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":158.289,"endTime":162.549,"body":"but also, uh, in terms of resource use."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":162.629,"endTime":167.609,"body":"High selectivities, which inthe end always also means that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":167.609,"endTime":172.359,"body":"you can make more money becausein this, uh, way, it's aligned."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":172.359,"endTime":178.749,"body":"Because if you have your reaction and youget high percentage of what you actually"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":178.749,"endTime":183.339,"body":"want, and you don't have a lot of waste,it's positive for the environment, but"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":183.399,"endTime":185.079,"body":"it's also good for the company, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":185.172,"endTime":185.472,"body":"Soumyadeep: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":185.472,"endTime":186.647,"body":"I totally agree with you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":186.867,"endTime":193.372,"body":"So even nowadays, a lot of companies evenare focusing on sustainable chemistry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":193.852,"endTime":200.882,"body":"and, uh, slowly trying to,  changetheir setup or their methods for making"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":201.002,"endTime":203.992,"body":"chemicals, but in a more sustainable way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":203.992,"endTime":210.002,"body":"Let's say, um, a pharma or, a smallmolecule pharma, which was made 20"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":210.002,"endTime":214.602,"body":"years back, uh, let's say using apalladium, which is considered as"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":214.602,"endTime":216.972,"body":"a precious metal, uh, catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":216.972,"endTime":217.332,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":217.582,"endTime":221.362,"body":"In terms of price, in termsof toxicity and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":221.602,"endTime":227.802,"body":"So people are now more focusing on, tryingto replacing, let's say, for palladium"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":227.802,"endTime":230.022,"body":"with nickel or cobalt, which is, Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":230.022,"endTime":230.922,"body":"more benign."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":231.402,"endTime":236.652,"body":"And of course it's cost effectiveAnd um, yeah, more sustainable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":236.742,"endTime":240.112,"body":"And of course you, as yousaid you save, uh, more money,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":240.232,"endTime":240.862,"body":"basically."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":241.522,"endTime":241.822,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":242.169,"endTime":242.379,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":242.379,"endTime":248.559,"body":"And you're talking about all these metalsthat they usually used in directions as"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":248.559,"endTime":252.219,"body":"a catalyst and catalysis is also that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":254.334,"endTime":261.924,"body":"Many years back has been not used thatmuch and since the discovery of, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":262.434,"endTime":269.464,"body":"yeah, the catalyst that it really helps toreduce the energy needed for the reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":269.484,"endTime":275.934,"body":"I think nowadays it's more than 80%of the reactions are catalytic and we."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":276.369,"endTime":280.299,"body":"Can really have a big impactwith the right catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":280.299,"endTime":283.479,"body":"And that's also what yourresearch is about, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":283.629,"endTime":286.119,"body":"That you are doing catalysts research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":286.287,"endTime":287.067,"body":"Soumyadeep: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":287.117,"endTime":292.337,"body":"So, um, catalysis is of course,plays, uh pretty important and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":292.337,"endTime":294.727,"body":"and vital role, uh, nowadays."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":294.727,"endTime":299.647,"body":"Let's say, for example, if those reaction,which we were doing, I don't know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":300.217,"endTime":304.33,"body":"50 years back by stoichiometric,method where you used to produce,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":304.39,"endTime":307.21,"body":"um, a lot of waste and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":307.75,"endTime":312.25,"body":"But by using Catalysis now, you canbasically save, a lot of address"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":312.25,"endTime":316.51,"body":"material and basically, uh, makethe same process more benign."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":316.51,"endTime":323.915,"body":"And I have been, involved, uh, duringmy PhD, back in LiKat, so I have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":324.005,"endTime":328.425,"body":"been mostly involved in hydrogenationchemistry where, as you probably"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":328.425,"endTime":333.235,"body":"know, um, that hydrogenation isvery commonly used, reductant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":333.255,"endTime":338.675,"body":"Or the best reductant so far, tome, uh, and which is like well"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":338.675,"endTime":340.385,"body":"practiced in the industry as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":340.385,"endTime":344.66,"body":"And I was more involved in theasymmetric, uh, hydrogenation where."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":345.8,"endTime":349.602,"body":"We were trying, uh, trying todevelop new ligands, which could be"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":350.222,"endTime":352.202,"body":"more effective or more selective."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":352.622,"endTime":357.062,"body":"So here also you, we come back to thesame point about sustainability again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":357.112,"endTime":359.395,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, maybe for, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":359.935,"endTime":363.835,"body":"People who don't know whatthe asymmetric direction is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":364.045,"endTime":366.205,"body":"Maybe let's explain that shortly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":366.403,"endTime":366.613,"body":"Soumyadeep: sure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":367.198,"endTime":367.498,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":368.148,"endTime":372.058,"body":"As I. Was saying, so I havebeen involved during my PhD"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":372.108,"endTime":374.358,"body":"doing, uh, asymmetric analysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":374.778,"endTime":382.738,"body":"So, which means we were trying to make oneenantiomer of a particular molecule, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":382.738,"endTime":388.648,"body":"is basically beneficial for pharmaceuticalapplication and asymmetric catalysis"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":388.668,"endTime":393.778,"body":"plays an important role to make oneparticular quaternary, uh, center where"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":393.778,"endTime":399.778,"body":"basically you have, uh, four differentatom attached to one carbon atom."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":399.988,"endTime":404.728,"body":"And in principle, we can prepare this,um, basically both the molecules,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":404.998,"endTime":410.098,"body":"uh, in a same method where they aremirror image to each other and one of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":410.098,"endTime":416.408,"body":"these, uh, form of these two moleculesbasically active in pharmaceutical."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":416.408,"endTime":423.578,"body":"So asymmetric analysis is aimed formaking one particular enantiomer"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":423.598,"endTime":429.498,"body":"of the molecule uh, suppressing theother, which is let's say the bad one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":430.008,"endTime":433.158,"body":"And we always aim to make the good one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":433.668,"endTime":438.988,"body":"And Yeah, so I have been involved in such,uh, chemical transformation, let's say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":439.135,"endTime":443.855,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, I think for thisyou have, uh, one molecule"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":444.095,"endTime":446.255,"body":"with these chiral centers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":446.255,"endTime":451.382,"body":"That means that this is a connectionpoint where four chains or four"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":451.382,"endTime":456.092,"body":"rests come together and they canbe connected in a way that they're"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":456.092,"endTime":458.252,"body":"a mirror image of each other."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":458.312,"endTime":461.892,"body":"And that makes then thewhole molecule chiral."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":461.912,"endTime":469.772,"body":"And especially in terms of biologicalactivity, oftentimes, whether it's the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":469.772,"endTime":475.922,"body":"left-handed or right-handed side, they canhave completely different, um, effects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":476.342,"endTime":481.292,"body":"And I think that the most famous,uh one is this really tragic"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":481.622,"endTime":486.242,"body":"example where this thalidomide Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":486.492,"endTime":492.102,"body":"It was used to help, women in pregnancywith their, uh, morning sickness."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":492.122,"endTime":497.182,"body":"And later on they discoveredthat one of the enantiomers"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":497.432,"endTime":499.724,"body":"would help exactly do that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":499.784,"endTime":503.714,"body":"And the other one would,uh, lead to birth defects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":503.714,"endTime":509.024,"body":"And this was really a problem becausethey figured that out way too late."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":509.024,"endTime":512.711,"body":"And then they had this ra emicmixture, which means that there's equal"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":512.711,"endTime":515.111,"body":"amounts of both mirror images present."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":515.111,"endTime":520.571,"body":"And then, yeah, there were a lot of birthdefects caused by this, uh, thalidomide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":521.014,"endTime":526.874,"body":"Soumyadeep: Yes, you, you nicely pointedout and people always consider the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":526.934,"endTime":533.724,"body":"thalidomide tragedy, um, is basicallythe basis of, of asymmetric catalysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":533.744,"endTime":537.934,"body":"And from then people startedputting their efforts in research"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":537.934,"endTime":540.274,"body":"like how to make one particular."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":541.124,"endTime":547.224,"body":"Molecule or whether left-handed orright-handed, um, in selective manner"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":547.824,"endTime":553.854,"body":"Kevin: so in your example what,uh, you said you looked at the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":554.304,"endTime":559.224,"body":"asymmetric hydrogenation and,uh, what is an example there?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":559.724,"endTime":563.804,"body":"Soumyadeep: So basically, um, asymmerticHydrogenation, as I already mentioned,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":563.804,"endTime":566.364,"body":"has been implemented industrial as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":566.364,"endTime":572.444,"body":"And since 1980s, professor Noyori  andKnowles when they discovered the first,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":573.374,"endTime":579.554,"body":"asymmetric hydrogen, uh, of L-DOPAprecursor, uh, back in 1980s and ti"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":580.064,"endTime":587.374,"body":"discovered, the Ruthenium Binap catalystfor making, um, YL secondary alcohol."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":587.614,"endTime":591.284,"body":"So that's how the Asymetichydrogenation, research, started"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":591.764,"endTime":598.004,"body":"from 1980s or so, and then they alsoreceived a Nobel Prize for that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":598.004,"endTime":602.574,"body":"And asymmetric hydrogenation isbasically well adopted since,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":602.994,"endTime":604.434,"body":"yeah, more than 40 years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":604.434,"endTime":608.924,"body":"Both in academia and, andindustrial research as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":609.614,"endTime":616.304,"body":"Kevin: And then the goal isbasically to improve the selectivity"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":616.304,"endTime":619.304,"body":"towards one of the mirror images."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":619.304,"endTime":624.344,"body":"And how does the catalyst helpincreasing this selectivity?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":624.708,"endTime":624.918,"body":"Soumyadeep: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":624.918,"endTime":627.988,"body":"So it depends on a lot of factors, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":627.988,"endTime":633.218,"body":"So it, first, it starts, uh,probably with ligand, uh, designing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":633.398,"endTime":639.133,"body":"So we need something to stabilize ourcatalyst or to be precise the metal"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":639.993,"endTime":642.603,"body":"complex or the metal that we use."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":643.083,"endTime":647.443,"body":"So that's why we add ligand tothe metal to make the complex"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":647.503,"endTime":654.088,"body":"and that basically catalyze thedesired reaction in this case."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":654.088,"endTime":662.278,"body":"So this, there is always, uh, a testor demand to improve the selectivity,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":662.278,"endTime":668.983,"body":"whether it's the regio selectivity, orchemo selectivity, or enantio selectivity"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":668.983,"endTime":671.953,"body":"in, in terms of catalyst design."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":671.993,"endTime":676.898,"body":"I was involved particularly, duringmy PhD, uh, to make new ligands."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":676.968,"endTime":682.398,"body":"Or to make new chiral ligands to beprecise for asymetic hydrogenation, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":682.458,"endTime":688.168,"body":"chemistry, where at the end, so afterthree years, three and half years, I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":688.168,"endTime":694.788,"body":"also found that, the ligand librarythat we made, um, also can be applied"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":694.788,"endTime":696.678,"body":"for a particular pharma molecule."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":696.678,"endTime":701.348,"body":"Which, um, I worked on, thiswas a molecule Rasagilin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":702.098,"endTime":705.348,"body":"Which has been used foranti Parkinson therapy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":705.708,"endTime":710.578,"body":"And, we could also show that,uh, that our ligand basically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":710.578,"endTime":716.678,"body":"outperformed the benchmark ligands,uh, available or benchmark process"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":716.678,"endTime":719.828,"body":"available, um, at the time in the market."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":719.928,"endTime":720.408,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":720.408,"endTime":721.008,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":721.181,"endTime":724.601,"body":"Especially when it comes tothe synthesis of these, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":724.631,"endTime":727.361,"body":"biologically active molecules."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":727.871,"endTime":733.841,"body":"It's not only that you need to have thechiral center ready, but oftentimes they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":733.841,"endTime":738.911,"body":"have more than one chiral center andthen they are very complex molecules"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":738.911,"endTime":744.581,"body":"with a lot of different, um, stepsyou have to do in the synthesis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":744.581,"endTime":753.951,"body":"And then the homogeneous catalysis playsout its advantages because usually it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":754.161,"endTime":759.171,"body":"more difficult and more expensive touse the homogeneous catalyst, but in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":759.171,"endTime":764.871,"body":"terms of selectivity, they can reallyoutperform the heterogeneous ones."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":764.871,"endTime":768.231,"body":"And as you said, the ligandsreally play a role with this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":768.621,"endTime":773.091,"body":"So how exactly do the ligands, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":773.766,"endTime":775.866,"body":"Improve the reactions in that way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":775.866,"endTime":778.926,"body":"So you said already theystabilize the metal center."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":779.526,"endTime":781.716,"body":"In what other ways do theyinfluence the reaction?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":782.469,"endTime":786.639,"body":"Soumyadeep: Um, so if, first of all, Imean, as you, as you rightly pointed out,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":786.639,"endTime":791.139,"body":"the ligand, uh, plays really importantrole in homogeneous catalysis, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":791.819,"endTime":792.309,"body":"Uh, it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":794.009,"endTime":795.474,"body":"Depends on the reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":795.474,"endTime":800.334,"body":"First of all, I could share my story in,in terms of, uh, hydrogenation chemistry,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":800.874,"endTime":805.854,"body":"whether hydrogenation of carbon,carbon bonds, or carbon oxygen bond or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":805.914,"endTime":812.204,"body":"carbon nitrogen bond to make opticallypure or enantiomeric pure compound."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":812.774,"endTime":815.774,"body":"Um, so it influence in different ways."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":815.814,"endTime":820.754,"body":"There is a term in chemistry calledbite angle of the, of the ligand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":820.754,"endTime":825.654,"body":"So it's basically defined thecone angle bit, uh, of the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":825.654,"endTime":827.574,"body":"ligand to the metal center."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":827.574,"endTime":833.344,"body":"So that also sometimes enhance, uh,the fundamental state of catalysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":833.364,"endTime":835.014,"body":"So let's say if we have a."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":835.344,"endTime":840.924,"body":"Larger biting that could enhance,uh, the fundamental state of a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":840.924,"endTime":842.664,"body":"particular homogeneous process."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":843.114,"endTime":848.364,"body":"Uh, um, at the same time, if we havea smaller biting that could also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":848.364,"endTime":852.114,"body":"enhance, um, the reactivity and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":852.729,"endTime":853.059,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":853.059,"endTime":858.099,"body":"and sometimes solvent also plays animportant role, which is often overlooked"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":858.099,"endTime":864.809,"body":"in academia because, uh, I mean one mighthave a ligand that let's say basically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":864.899,"endTime":870.299,"body":"can be degraded in a solvent, particularlysolvent, and they are, one should not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":870.299,"endTime":874.949,"body":"expect the reactivity as well, you know,So there are a lot of factors, basically."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":875.459,"endTime":877.199,"body":"Um, yeah, in fault or."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":877.824,"endTime":880.314,"body":"Need to consider for a particular process?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":880.329,"endTime":881.274,"body":"Uh uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":881.471,"endTime":881.711,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":882.146,"endTime":888.746,"body":"in the best way, you then have yourchiral ligand that brings all the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":889.346,"endTime":895.076,"body":"selectivity to the one mirror imageyou want to receive, and then the."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":895.811,"endTime":900.551,"body":"Rest of the catalytic complexalso performs the reaction  that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":900.551,"endTime":904.481,"body":"you want to do, in this case,the hydrogenation reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":905.261,"endTime":912.851,"body":"And in the past, usually themetal centers for these catalysts"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":912.851,"endTime":916.181,"body":"were like rhodium or iridium."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":916.781,"endTime":922.411,"body":"They are really perfect for catalysisbecause of their really large, orbitals"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":922.411,"endTime":927.241,"body":"and they're really flexible and theycan change their, um, oxidation state"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":927.241,"endTime":932.431,"body":"easily, and that makes them perfectfor these catalytic reactions where"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":932.431,"endTime":934.681,"body":"they interact with a lot of molecules."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":935.161,"endTime":940.081,"body":"And what you also did wastrying to replace these really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":940.081,"endTime":945.521,"body":"expensive, uh, rhodium iridiumcatalyst with other metalls."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":945.541,"endTime":947.821,"body":"What's the challengewhen you want to do that?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":948.949,"endTime":950.959,"body":"Soumyadeep: As you, asyou rightly pointed out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":950.959,"endTime":955.999,"body":"So again, we are also coming back to thesame circle of sustainability, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":956.449,"endTime":961.219,"body":"So in earlier days we had rhodium,iridium, palladium, uh, chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":961.709,"endTime":966.699,"body":"Those has been even practiced at,uh, industrial scale for making, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":967.064,"endTime":971.364,"body":"Let's say homogeneous catalyst ismainly focused on fine molecule"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":971.364,"endTime":972.654,"body":"or small molecule pharma."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":972.654,"endTime":973.014,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":973.704,"endTime":976.584,"body":"Whereas if now it is, let's say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":977.464,"endTime":981.724,"body":"In last 10 years or 20 years, thereis, has, has been an increasing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":981.724,"endTime":983.554,"body":"concern about sustainability."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":983.644,"endTime":989.854,"body":"And also we are trying to replace thosemetals because first of all, those are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":989.854,"endTime":994.474,"body":"expensive and, um, those are also toxic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":994.474,"endTime":998.932,"body":"So, uh, we don't want to getthose metal at our end product,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":999.213,"endTime":999.373,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":999.423,"endTime":1000.993,"body":"Especially for pharma."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1001.061,"endTime":1002.591,"body":"Soumyadeep: For, especiallyfor a farmer, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1002.651,"endTime":1007.541,"body":"We don't get, uh, want to get poisonedby rhodium or palladium or so, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1007.541,"endTime":1009.851,"body":"it's pretty hard to remove as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1009.881,"endTime":1014.771,"body":"There might be always somePPM or PVB level of, uh, this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1014.771,"endTime":1015.976,"body":"previous metal, uh, left."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1017.111,"endTime":1021.071,"body":"So now the chemistry fraternity,uh, they're also trying to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1021.071,"endTime":1028.151,"body":"replace those metals by moreabundant, um, or less toxic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1028.181,"endTime":1028.721,"body":"I should not say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1029.641,"endTime":1034.891,"body":"Mm, totally benign, like, uh, non-toxicbecause they also have their toxicity,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1035.401,"endTime":1041.381,"body":"um, level, but which are way lower thanthese palladium or rhodium chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1041.801,"endTime":1045.431,"body":"And fortunately, I also contributed, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1046.056,"endTime":1051.366,"body":"Uh, in this area of chemistryduring my PhD where we were also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1051.366,"endTime":1056.756,"body":"focusing on asymetic hydrogenationreaction using a cobalt catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1057.386,"endTime":1059.246,"body":"And, um, Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1059.246,"endTime":1063.896,"body":"we managed to get, um, decentselectivity in terms of, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1064.841,"endTime":1068.171,"body":"One molecule, selectivelymolecule, let's say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1068.591,"endTime":1071.131,"body":"But we also faced several challenges."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1071.851,"endTime":1075.661,"body":"Um, yeah, when we triedto move from rhodium."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1075.763,"endTime":1079.183,"body":"Kevin: What was used before, uh,you could figure out a way to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1079.183,"endTime":1081.073,"body":"use cobalt for this reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1081.073,"endTime":1081.163,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1081.346,"endTime":1086.056,"body":"Soumyadeep: So people have used,uh, rhodium on Iridium, um, best"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1086.116,"endTime":1088.186,"body":"catalyst for those reactions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1088.696,"endTime":1093.971,"body":"And those were like extremelyselective and uh, those react."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1094.841,"endTime":1099.371,"body":"And condition could also tolerate,decent or super nice functional"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1099.641,"endTime":1101.871,"body":"group present to your molecule."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1101.871,"endTime":1107.091,"body":"Because very often, um, estimatehydrogenation is performed at the late"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1107.091,"endTime":1111.261,"body":"stage of the pharma molecule whereyou have a lot of functionalities"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1111.261,"endTime":1116.336,"body":"already included in your molecule,and you don't want to rupture those,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1116.426,"endTime":1116.726,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1117.386,"endTime":1118.016,"body":"So"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1118.178,"endTime":1122.138,"body":"Kevin: Then selectivity is even moreimportant when you already have your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1123.398,"endTime":1127.598,"body":"five step synthesis and then youlose half of your product because the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1127.598,"endTime":1130.478,"body":"selectivity is bad, then it really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1131.348,"endTime":1132.968,"body":"makes a huge difference compared."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1133.538,"endTime":1136.148,"body":"From what you start and whatyou end up with, because it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1136.148,"endTime":1138.698,"body":"compounds from each step, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1138.926,"endTime":1139.316,"body":"Soumyadeep: True."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1139.671,"endTime":1141.476,"body":"I, I, I totally agree with you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1141.936,"endTime":1148.221,"body":"To me um we are still in the beginningof that journey because as you probably"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1148.221,"endTime":1152.541,"body":"know, or as we all probably know,that rhodium and palladium chemistry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1152.541,"endTime":1157.041,"body":"or precious metal chemistry isbasically, um, has mixed with our blood."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1157.041,"endTime":1162.091,"body":"So it's pretty hard to, uh, you know,get rid of those chemical process"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1162.241,"endTime":1164.551,"body":"even for the industry because if."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1165.201,"endTime":1170.481,"body":"They have to change a methodfor a particular, uh, synthesis,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1170.511,"endTime":1172.101,"body":"let's say for a pharma molecule."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1172.251,"endTime":1178.191,"body":"So so they need to change the wholeengineering, the whole setup for, for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1178.191,"endTime":1182.991,"body":"a particular molecule, which is ofcourse time consuming, which need more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1183.051,"endTime":1188.971,"body":"research and, uh, more collaboration withindustry, uh, together with academia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1189.631,"endTime":1190.441,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1190.621,"endTime":1190.861,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1191.913,"endTime":1198.693,"body":"Kevin: But there they usually have onereaction and then they scale it up."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1198.753,"endTime":1201.813,"body":"They do it in the pilot plant andthen they go to the big plant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1201.813,"endTime":1203.978,"body":"But they basically have thisone reaction and they do."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1206.013,"endTime":1209.073,"body":"Everything to get every percent out of it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1210.153,"endTime":1216.243,"body":"Whereas from the academic point ofview, the problem is a bit different."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1216.243,"endTime":1216.513,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1216.543,"endTime":1222.843,"body":"You mentioned in our discussion beforethat, um, it's really important to show"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1222.843,"endTime":1225.453,"body":"that your catalyst can do many reactions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1226.363,"endTime":1230.233,"body":"Where does this, uh, difference comefrom, from the industry to academia?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1231.526,"endTime":1234.986,"body":"Soumyadeep: Yeah, I think that'sa never ending discussion why"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1235.616,"endTime":1239.846,"body":"there is always conflict betweenacademia, uh, and industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1239.846,"endTime":1245.846,"body":"But I try to take it in a positiveway because in academia, let's say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1247.391,"endTime":1252.791,"body":"I try to develop a method for aparticular transformation and we try"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1252.791,"endTime":1259.101,"body":"to generalize the method add, uh,the method as much as we can, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1259.251,"endTime":1263.541,"body":"We also sometimes in academiatry to make some pharmaceutically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1263.571,"endTime":1270.351,"body":"active, uh, molecule, um, whereasin industry they are particularly"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1270.381,"endTime":1272.301,"body":"focused on one molecule, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1273.261,"endTime":1274.011,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1275.061,"endTime":1277.641,"body":"Let's say, uh, Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1277.641,"endTime":1283.758,"body":"I mean it depends on the particularproject, but I still think that the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1283.758,"endTime":1289.338,"body":"collaboration between, the industryand the academia would definitely, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1289.338,"endTime":1291.793,"body":"faster this transition, let's say from."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1293.103,"endTime":1296.733,"body":"The existing condition to the morebenign condition, so let's say"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1296.733,"endTime":1298.443,"body":"more sustainable process, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1298.443,"endTime":1302.403,"body":"So I think this, willdefinitely, um, yeah, be the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1302.403,"endTime":1306.603,"body":"key factor for, for our way to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1306.603,"endTime":1306.993,"body":"go."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1307.233,"endTime":1308.283,"body":"So, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1308.435,"endTime":1314.465,"body":"Kevin: Do you think there is an, um,difference whether the research is funded"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1314.465,"endTime":1322.505,"body":"by industry or funded by the publicwhen it comes to these kind of goals?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1323.459,"endTime":1328.289,"body":"Soumyadeep: I still think, like,to my knowledge, um, the industrial"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1328.499,"endTime":1330.779,"body":"funded program are really limited."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1331.379,"endTime":1334.979,"body":"As you rightly pointed out, thatthey're really focused, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1335.549,"endTime":1338.189,"body":"So, um, they're really limited."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1338.189,"endTime":1343.679,"body":"And to me, what I experiencedor what I learned is they also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1343.679,"endTime":1345.719,"body":"approach to selective people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1346.319,"endTime":1353.309,"body":"So, um, but they're also open fordiscussion or open for, for collaboration."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1353.309,"endTime":1358.949,"body":"Whereas for the publicly funded,uh, projects, you have more money."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1359.429,"endTime":1363.989,"body":"More freedom, um, more possibility, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1363.989,"endTime":1369.659,"body":"So I still believe that where you havemore money, more freedom, and more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1369.659,"endTime":1374.669,"body":"possibility, you invent more or youdiscover more, you know, more open mind."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1374.879,"endTime":1379.249,"body":"But speak in industrial projectbecause I also worked on an industrial"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1379.249,"endTime":1381.509,"body":"project back in LiKat for six months."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1382.219,"endTime":1388.509,"body":"Um, so you had sort of, uh, time pressure,so you need to deliver the result"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1388.509,"endTime":1390.519,"body":"because they have time pressure for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1391.044,"endTime":1391.614,"body":"The next day."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1391.614,"endTime":1391.914,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1391.914,"endTime":1393.084,"body":"So it's all connected."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1393.384,"endTime":1399.954,"body":"So we also cannot blame them or arguewith them because it's all are connected."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1399.954,"endTime":1401.484,"body":"So we need to Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1401.604,"endTime":1402.564,"body":"deliver our staff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1402.984,"endTime":1404.304,"body":"So, Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1404.364,"endTime":1406.254,"body":"I mean, it depends."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1406.434,"endTime":1406.884,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1407.329,"endTime":1407.619,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1408.681,"endTime":1408.831,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1408.831,"endTime":1414.141,"body":"I think it's also with this, whenyou have this fundamental research"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1414.741,"endTime":1420.411,"body":"where it's partly really out ofcuriosity of the researcher that you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1421.596,"endTime":1425.736,"body":"Do something, and then you get aresult that you didn't expect, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1425.736,"endTime":1427.656,"body":"then you think about, Hmm, why?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1427.686,"endTime":1428.946,"body":"Why did this happen now?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1428.946,"endTime":1430.416,"body":"And then you want to figure that out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1430.416,"endTime":1433.926,"body":"And then this goes from one to another."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1433.926,"endTime":1438.366,"body":"And then you basically findout a new reaction that can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1438.756,"endTime":1440.526,"body":"outperform the benchmarks."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1441.756,"endTime":1445.566,"body":"And then you also want to, okay, we havethis new catalyst, what else can it do?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1446.586,"endTime":1448.386,"body":"Whereas in industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1449.826,"endTime":1451.026,"body":"It's like flipped."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1451.026,"endTime":1454.836,"body":"You have a goal, one reaction,which is a bit more limited,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1454.846,"endTime":1459.016,"body":"When you have the freedom todo the research, you can also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1459.616,"endTime":1463.041,"body":"Go after different problems thatyou didn't even know existed before."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1463.309,"endTime":1463.729,"body":"Soumyadeep: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1463.729,"endTime":1466.609,"body":"I totally, I totally agreewith you, but I like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1466.984,"endTime":1470.584,"body":"We should also think from theirperspective as well, because they have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1471.034,"endTime":1474.074,"body":"their own timelines and own constraint."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1474.074,"endTime":1474.404,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1474.404,"endTime":1478.904,"body":"So, at the same time, but I thinknow, now people are more open."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1478.904,"endTime":1484.094,"body":"So even, let's say they have a process,um, they want to change the process for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1484.424,"endTime":1487.964,"body":"med chem or, or discovery, uh, chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1488.364,"endTime":1492.234,"body":"They do allow r and dresearch and development for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1492.459,"endTime":1499.179,"body":"For a year or two or so for a particularprocess before going to, you know,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1499.179,"endTime":1506.379,"body":"like implementing it on scale orso, so I think they're more open."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1506.419,"endTime":1507.139,"body":"That's what I said."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1507.139,"endTime":1511.929,"body":"So we should have this, uh, sort ofsynergy between the academia and industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1512.549,"endTime":1513.659,"body":"So that we."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1514.154,"endTime":1518.474,"body":"Both of us get benefited andat the end we are serving the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1518.474,"endTime":1519.914,"body":"societies to the community."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1519.914,"endTime":1520.214,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1520.801,"endTime":1525.481,"body":"Kevin: That's also in, especially inAmerica at the moment, where they're"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1525.481,"endTime":1529.531,"body":"really cutting the funding for a lot ofthe fundamental research, and they only"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1529.531,"endTime":1531.871,"body":"want to do like the applied research, but."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1533.701,"endTime":1534.786,"body":"In the end, you need both."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1535.489,"endTime":1539.509,"body":"Soumyadeep: I totally agree withyou and I would say that most of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1539.509,"endTime":1545.734,"body":"the great discovery so far, um, cameout of fundamental research and so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1546.066,"endTime":1546.356,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1546.789,"endTime":1549.309,"body":"Soumyadeep: So we needfundamental research, of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1549.959,"endTime":1554.999,"body":"I was lucky in fact like, uh, I wasalso involved in fundamental research"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1555.089,"endTime":1558.089,"body":"in Rostock and here in Mulheim as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1558.149,"endTime":1563.699,"body":"And by this I'm also, uh, learning likehow to implement the fundamental chemistry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1563.699,"endTime":1567.419,"body":"to the, to the, um, broad horizon."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1567.799,"endTime":1569.749,"body":"You know, so Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1569.749,"endTime":1571.099,"body":"I, I totally agree with you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1571.099,"endTime":1575.569,"body":"So fundamental chemistry comes,should come first and then, then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1575.569,"endTime":1581.789,"body":"basically based on the, uh, studyor based on the case what we want."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1581.849,"endTime":1583.679,"body":"Then we go for the applied research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1583.919,"endTime":1587.879,"body":"And, um, there are also, weneed collaboration because we."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1588.469,"endTime":1592.489,"body":"Coming from academic background,we might not have that expertise"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1592.489,"endTime":1595.069,"body":"that, um, chemical engineer has."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1595.519,"endTime":1595.609,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1595.901,"endTime":1596.191,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1596.196,"endTime":1596.266,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1596.779,"endTime":1598.219,"body":"Soumyadeep: um, Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1598.249,"endTime":1602.329,"body":"So I truly believe that like,Yeah, one, we should definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1602.329,"endTime":1606.799,"body":"have the synergy, um,to, to, to go forward."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1606.799,"endTime":1606.949,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1607.366,"endTime":1607.486,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1607.486,"endTime":1613.486,"body":"That also reminds me a bit of, uh,my research in Dortmund where we were"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1613.486,"endTime":1619.876,"body":"engineers and chemists together, andsometimes in our weekly discussions"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1619.876,"endTime":1624.286,"body":"when the chemists were talking abouttheir results, and then the, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1624.286,"endTime":1629.266,"body":"engineers were like, yeah, but that willnever work like this in the industry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1629.476,"endTime":1631.666,"body":"when you scale this up and then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1632.191,"endTime":1637.681,"body":"You think about the costsand then we had to also a bit"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1637.741,"endTime":1639.541,"body":"earlier than others, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1639.541,"endTime":1646.051,"body":"Think about for example, how to retrieveyour catalyst from the reaction mixture."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1646.051,"endTime":1652.201,"body":"That was one of our key topics there to,uh, separate these homogeneous catalyst,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1652.201,"endTime":1658.051,"body":"which is a big disadvantage of them,and have these concepts in mind early."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1658.096,"endTime":1663.416,"body":"It makes us then also easierlater to, implement this, uh, new"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1663.416,"endTime":1665.816,"body":"reaction than in a bigger scale."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1666.386,"endTime":1672.896,"body":"But yeah, we still need the new catalystand explore what, what's possible there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1673.034,"endTime":1673.394,"body":"Soumyadeep: Two."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1673.394,"endTime":1674.179,"body":"I totally agree."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1674.726,"endTime":1679.496,"body":"Kevin: Mm. What do you thinkthe catalysis research, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1679.526,"endTime":1680.966,"body":"will look like in the future?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1681.821,"endTime":1686.891,"body":"When we think about all thesedevelopments in AI and such, do"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1686.891,"endTime":1690.371,"body":"you think they will also have aninfluence on this catalysis research?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1691.009,"endTime":1691.249,"body":"Soumyadeep: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1691.249,"endTime":1695.449,"body":"that's a, there's a tough, uh,point to be this, I mean, nobody"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1695.449,"endTime":1697.459,"body":"can predict future except AI now,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1698.141,"endTime":1698.381,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1700.369,"endTime":1705.679,"body":"Soumyadeep: but I truly believe that,um, like sustainable chemistry, of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1705.679,"endTime":1710.994,"body":"course, should be at the first placeright as I was maintaining, even if."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1711.474,"endTime":1716.514,"body":"You improve the reaction temperature orif you, even if you improve the catalyst"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1716.514,"endTime":1723.774,"body":"loading, let's say from 10 mol percent to,to, to 0.1 more percent, or even if you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1723.774,"endTime":1728.184,"body":"improve the selectivity of the reaction,that also, uh, becomes sustainable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1728.214,"endTime":1732.504,"body":"So I would still put sustainableresearch at the first place."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1733.434,"endTime":1737.154,"body":"As you rightly mentioned, um, the AI."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1737.744,"endTime":1742.454,"body":"Of course, it's, um, yeah, it'sgetting, um, hyped nowadays."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1742.454,"endTime":1746.554,"body":"Of course, this, uh, couldimprove our let's say daily"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1746.554,"endTime":1748.354,"body":"methodology that we use, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1748.591,"endTime":1748.921,"body":"Kevin: Hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1749.419,"endTime":1750.874,"body":"Soumyadeep: very often."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1750.934,"endTime":1757.054,"body":"But before ai, I would even more emphasison data, uh, driven approaches, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1757.804,"endTime":1759.689,"body":"Because we have."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1760.414,"endTime":1766.654,"body":"Billions of data and we don't know howmany of them are really correct, you know?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1767.164,"endTime":1773.514,"body":"So, we really have to, or peopleshould really have to focus on, on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1773.844,"endTime":1778.954,"body":"making, correct or actual dataset,those or working data, uh, dataset."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1779.374,"endTime":1783.824,"body":"Let's, and by that we candefinitely learn, Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1783.944,"endTime":1787.874,"body":"let's say for a particular transformation,which metal we need to choose or with, or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1787.874,"endTime":1789.704,"body":"which kind of ligand we need to choose."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1789.704,"endTime":1791.894,"body":"So data scientists really important."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1791.944,"endTime":1793.684,"body":"Kevin: Another collaboration, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1794.314,"endTime":1798.814,"body":"Not only chemists and engineers,but also nowadays, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1798.874,"endTime":1801.184,"body":"chemists and Data scientists."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1801.286,"endTime":1801.826,"body":"Soumyadeep: scientist."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1801.826,"endTime":1802.066,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1802.246,"endTime":1803.176,"body":"I totally agree."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1803.543,"endTime":1808.763,"body":"Um, another point I would also would liketo highlight is high throughput screening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1809.123,"endTime":1814.073,"body":"Which is basically, um, let's saywe as a chemist, whether PhD, d or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1814.073,"endTime":1815.993,"body":"postdoc or a technician in a lab."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1816.583,"endTime":1821.383,"body":"Um, let's say if they can run10 reaction a day, which is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1821.503,"endTime":1822.733,"body":"super ambitious by the way,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1823.499,"endTime":1823.789,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1824.088,"endTime":1829.618,"body":"Soumyadeep: Whereas, one could use themachines or robots to, to do that if"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1829.678,"endTime":1831.838,"body":"of course the process has to be robust."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1831.928,"endTime":1837.888,"body":"And yeah, I mean the, in most of thecases we choose, those reactions,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1837.888,"endTime":1839.868,"body":"which are relatively simpler."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1840.493,"endTime":1840.883,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1841.183,"endTime":1847.283,"body":"So these high, so as I was saying, so amachine can do, let's say 96 reactions"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1847.303,"endTime":1853.093,"body":"in a day, and that could definitelyfasten the process of, of, of screening"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1853.153,"endTime":1855.523,"body":"or for a methodology development also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1856.093,"endTime":1857.083,"body":"So Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1857.083,"endTime":1858.403,"body":"sustainable chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1859.288,"endTime":1863.008,"body":"Data science of course, andhigh for screening as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1863.578,"endTime":1868.978,"body":"And of course now with the incorporationof, uh, machine learning and um, ai,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1869.578,"endTime":1874.828,"body":"I mean if one has to focus on a particularprocess or particular method development,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1875.278,"endTime":1879.873,"body":"then definitely one has to in for itall four of these points and then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1880.389,"endTime":1880.809,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1880.953,"endTime":1885.583,"body":"Soumyadeep: He or she will definitelyget a, a better result than, than"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1885.583,"endTime":1887.743,"body":"the trivial or classical, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1887.923,"endTime":1888.253,"body":"way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1888.403,"endTime":1888.673,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1889.929,"endTime":1895.479,"body":"Kevin: Are you already using this, uh,high throughput screening in your work?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1895.693,"endTime":1897.283,"body":"Soumyadeep: I have used it once."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1897.373,"endTime":1902.623,"body":"Um, I had the opportunity to tovisit to University of Amsterdam."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1903.373,"endTime":1908.883,"body":"During my PhD time for an exchangestudent and there they had, a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1908.883,"endTime":1911.193,"body":"machine they called robo Chem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1911.403,"endTime":1917.313,"body":"Where they basically could run 96reactions and all, like I was doing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1917.373,"endTime":1920.523,"body":"hydrogenation chemistry 96 reactions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1920.523,"endTime":1925.293,"body":"So they literally had96 um, small autoclaves."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1925.308,"endTime":1930.848,"body":"So autoclave um, a, basicallya pressure vessel where we run"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1931.308,"endTime":1932.366,"body":"the high pressure reactions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1933.446,"endTime":1938.796,"body":"And one can literally tune each andevery parameter for each autoclave."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1939.386,"endTime":1945.536,"body":"So you imagine that you could literallyrun 96 reaction with 96 different,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1945.536,"endTime":1947.636,"body":"minimum, 96 different parameter."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1948.038,"endTime":1948.328,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1948.686,"endTime":1949.616,"body":"Soumyadeep: So Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1949.616,"endTime":1953.066,"body":"I had the opportunity to use itonce and that basically within"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1953.156,"endTime":1955.916,"body":"three days, I got my optimized"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1955.976,"endTime":1958.166,"body":"uh, uh, catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1958.796,"endTime":1959.126,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1960.083,"endTime":1960.233,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1960.233,"endTime":1964.973,"body":"That's then also a hugetime saving, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1965.303,"endTime":1971.423,"body":"When you think about the classic organicsynthesis where you do like your three"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1971.423,"endTime":1977.918,"body":"gram reaction, and then you do allthe uh, workup and then you have to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1978.788,"endTime":1984.531,"body":"refine the product and in the end youhave a yield by just weighing your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1985.371,"endTime":1986.181,"body":"product."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1986.361,"endTime":1993.845,"body":"That's very slow compared when you have arobot that can basically do the reactions"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1993.905,"endTime":2002.425,"body":"and they probably also use, um, GC oruh, stuff like that to figure out what"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2002.425,"endTime":2006.565,"body":"the reaction, um, outcome is without."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2007.135,"endTime":2009.265,"body":"This really complicated workup procedure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2009.353,"endTime":2010.093,"body":"Soumyadeep: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2010.153,"endTime":2014.923,"body":"So for a, as I said, for a smallmolecule, pharma, so for a particular"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2014.923,"endTime":2017.383,"body":"process though, really focused project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2017.433,"endTime":2019.683,"body":"This really helps if you know what to do"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2020.16,"endTime":2020.38,"body":"Kevin: Mm,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2020.883,"endTime":2021.723,"body":"Soumyadeep: usually."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2022.473,"endTime":2026.703,"body":"Usually it helps a lot and,and like it saves time, right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2027.213,"endTime":2028.683,"body":"Which is proportional to the money."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2028.803,"endTime":2029.223,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2029.793,"endTime":2035.853,"body":"And which gives you indirectlymore time to invest on different"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2035.853,"endTime":2037.743,"body":"things or different projects also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2037.743,"endTime":2038.373,"body":"So yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2038.433,"endTime":2039.483,"body":"I totally agree with you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2039.483,"endTime":2039.543,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2040.24,"endTime":2040.53,"body":"Kevin: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2041.745,"endTime":2048.225,"body":"that's a really good method ofcreating the data, and then now that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2048.285,"endTime":2053.475,"body":"still has to be improved, really makesure that the data is high quality"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2053.475,"endTime":2058.785,"body":"and with high quality data, thenyou can use all these AI models or."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2059.775,"endTime":2063.375,"body":"Data-driven approaches, but whenyou don't have good data, they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2063.375,"endTime":2064.725,"body":"also don't bring you anywhere."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2064.725,"endTime":2064.875,"body":"So"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2065.183,"endTime":2065.373,"body":"Soumyadeep: True."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2065.783,"endTime":2066.203,"body":"True."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2067.128,"endTime":2067.338,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2069.015,"endTime":2069.375,"body":"Kevin: Nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2069.405,"endTime":2069.735,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2069.735,"endTime":2077.205,"body":"Then, um, as the last question for thisdiscussion, uh, I asked the people what's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2077.205,"endTime":2079.425,"body":"their favorite discovery in chemistry?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2079.815,"endTime":2081.225,"body":"So what, what's yours?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2081.886,"endTime":2086.13,"body":"Soumyadeep: Oh, let's behonest, I, probably love."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2088.29,"endTime":2091.74,"body":"Most of the chemical reactionthat I have been involved"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2091.74,"endTime":2094.44,"body":"for my masters, uh, till now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2095.01,"endTime":2101.1,"body":"But in terms of favoritediscovery, let's say, okay, now"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2101.1,"endTime":2103.08,"body":"I'm being more, more political."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2103.44,"endTime":2108.12,"body":"So, uh, during my PhD, sobasically we also made a library."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2108.645,"endTime":2113.625,"body":"Uh, RA ligand that I was discussingwith you that also outperformed"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2113.955,"endTime":2120.555,"body":"certain reaction from the benchmarkli and we also named, um, the Ligand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2120.555,"endTime":2123.685,"body":"So it's basically abidentate Phosphine ligand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2123.705,"endTime":2126.405,"body":"We also named the ligand JOSOPhos."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2126.675,"endTime":2127.275,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2127.685,"endTime":2132.145,"body":"\"Jo\" for Johannes, which is my PhDsupervisor, \"SO\" for Soumyadeep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2132.275,"endTime":2132.875,"body":"So"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2133.475,"endTime":2139.96,"body":"I could proudly say that, um, yeah,so we tried, let's say, to make a new."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2140.83,"endTime":2142.09,"body":"Library of ligands."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2142.3,"endTime":2142.57,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2142.96,"endTime":2146.41,"body":"Tried benchmark reaction to see theactivity because you always have to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2146.41,"endTime":2150.31,"body":"see whether your ligand is activefor benchmark reaction and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2150.52,"endTime":2156.4,"body":"And then you applied your ligand to areal time pharma that also I was fortunate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2156.4,"endTime":2161.305,"body":"to achieve during my PhD. So I wouldsay, yeah, that JOSOPhos is the best."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2163.237,"endTime":2163.717,"body":"Kevin: Nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2163.717,"endTime":2168.067,"body":"Yeah, that, that's reallycool to have, uh, your name"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2168.067,"endTime":2170.347,"body":"on a ligand or on a reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2170.747,"endTime":2175.247,"body":"When you're in your bachelor's, you learnall these name reactions and then this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2175.247,"endTime":2178.907,"body":"And uh, now you can callone of the ligands Yours."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2178.997,"endTime":2179.147,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2179.147,"endTime":2180.197,"body":"That's really impressive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2180.215,"endTime":2180.605,"body":"Soumyadeep: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2182.147,"endTime":2182.297,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2182.297,"endTime":2182.717,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2182.987,"endTime":2185.117,"body":"Thank you for this, uh, nice discussion."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2185.117,"endTime":2186.047,"body":"Thank you for your time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2186.455,"endTime":2188.885,"body":"Soumyadeep: Thank you very much,Kevin, for the invitation as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2188.885,"endTime":2189.515,"body":"I really enjoyed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2190.523,"endTime":2192.653,"body":"Kevin: Also, thank youvery much for listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2193.193,"endTime":2196.523,"body":"Don't forget to follow onwhatever app you're using."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2197.243,"endTime":2201.053,"body":"If you want to be part of a futureepisode, contact me via email."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2201.419,"endTime":2206.009,"body":"Through contact@innovateandreact.comor find me on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2206.639,"endTime":2209.519,"body":"Until next time, keepinnovating and stay curious."}]}