{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":null,"startTime":0.628,"endTime":2.368,"body":"Kevin: Welcome to Innovate and React."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2.458,"endTime":7.498,"body":"I'm Kevin Hares, and today I am herein D\u00fcsseldorf at the Chemical Industry,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":7.738,"endTime":11.248,"body":"Disrupt 2026, hosted by Chem Stars."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":11.698,"endTime":17.083,"body":"With me is Dr. Rhea Machado, theCEO and co-founder of Porelio."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":17.373,"endTime":22.223,"body":"We will talk about Porelio'ssolution for removing forever"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":22.223,"endTime":25.343,"body":"chemicals from our drinking water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":25.57,"endTime":25.99,"body":"Welcome Rhea."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":26,"endTime":27.078,"body":"Thank you so much for joining me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":27.478,"endTime":28.588,"body":"Rhea: Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":28.842,"endTime":34.392,"body":"Kevin: First of all, let's start a bitabout Porelio and, what does Porelio do?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":35.007,"endTime":39.588,"body":"Rhea: Yeah, so we are a spinoff ofthe technical university Berlin and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":39.588,"endTime":45.659,"body":"our idea origin, at our PhD time thatKavi our co-founder, he's our CTO,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":45.944,"endTime":48.405,"body":"had his, um, yeah, research time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":48.405,"endTime":50.445,"body":"He was working on catalysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":50.805,"endTime":54.76,"body":"And for Catalyst you need, asupport material to put the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":54.76,"endTime":57.22,"body":"active sites on the surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":57.28,"endTime":61.66,"body":"And he was working with functionalizedordered Mepo silica, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":61.66,"endTime":63.34,"body":"have a ordered pore structure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":64.21,"endTime":64.33,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":64.57,"endTime":69.64,"body":"And uh, functionality on the poresso they can catch the active sites."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":69.67,"endTime":70.84,"body":"And then you get a catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":71.17,"endTime":74.44,"body":"And this material isreally hard to produce."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":74.44,"endTime":78.61,"body":"So it was in lab for one weekproducing maybe five grams."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":78.97,"endTime":80.29,"body":"Super nasty."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":80.32,"endTime":81.73,"body":"But this materials are brilliant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":81.73,"endTime":85.825,"body":"So they were the gold standard inmany fields and, chemistry, so for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":85.825,"endTime":87.565,"body":"catalysis absorption materials."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":87.715,"endTime":88.795,"body":"And he was like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":89.35,"endTime":94.18,"body":"Why we can't use them for the industryif there's such great material."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":94.18,"endTime":99.04,"body":"And then he saw, okay, it's becauselong reaction time, a lot of, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":99.07,"endTime":103.18,"body":"toxic solvents and also the rawmaterials were very expensive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":103.72,"endTime":109.03,"body":"So he finished his PhD, uh, lab time,and then he went back to the yeah, table"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":109.03,"endTime":110.5,"body":"and said, okay, I want to change that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":111.024,"endTime":112.074,"body":"And he had an idea."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":112.254,"endTime":114.084,"body":"He pitched it to the technical university."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":114.759,"endTime":116.079,"body":"They said, it's genius."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":116.139,"endTime":117.009,"body":"Let's try it out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":117.009,"endTime":118.389,"body":"If we can make them scalable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":118.419,"endTime":121.029,"body":"They funded us with thefirst 200,000 Euros."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":121.225,"endTime":123.355,"body":"And we were able to do theproof of concept that we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":123.355,"endTime":124.705,"body":"can produce this materials."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":125.185,"endTime":127.105,"body":"And there I joined, basically."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":127.105,"endTime":127.195,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":127.435,"endTime":128.665,"body":"Because he's a chemist."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":128.665,"endTime":130.345,"body":"He's really brilliant in the lab."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":130.405,"endTime":133.345,"body":"But if you want to bringsomething into industrial"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":133.35,"endTime":134.965,"body":"reality, you need to scale it up."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":134.965,"endTime":136.855,"body":"And I'm a process engineer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":136.915,"endTime":137.005,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":137.245,"endTime":140.73,"body":"I did my PhD also at BASCAT, which isa joint lab between BASF and TU Berlin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":141.505,"endTime":144.025,"body":"And I joined the team andwe built our pilot plant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":144.486,"endTime":144.576,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":144.816,"endTime":147.906,"body":"And then just, uh, to, tofinish the round, uh, sentence."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":148.086,"endTime":152.106,"body":"we had this idea, we got the moneyalso from the state to, uh, scale it up"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":152.106,"endTime":153.726,"body":"basically, and to make the validation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":154.176,"endTime":156.486,"body":"But it's a platform solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":156.516,"endTime":159.156,"body":"You can use it for absorption,you can use it for catalysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":159.696,"endTime":164.166,"body":"And we had to find a market whichhas need to find a solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":164.409,"endTime":168.254,"body":"And also, of course, like to be bigenough to accept also innovation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":169.029,"endTime":172.209,"body":"And that's how we got intothe PFAS topic, basically."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":173.379,"endTime":174.069,"body":"Kevin: Oh, very interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":174.069,"endTime":175.299,"body":"So the, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":175.593,"endTime":179.845,"body":"Material itself can also beused for all kinds applications."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":179.845,"endTime":186.265,"body":"But you were looking for one thatneeded something new and this was a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":186.265,"endTime":188.125,"body":"new application also for this material."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":189.1,"endTime":189.76,"body":"Rhea: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":189.88,"endTime":194.8,"body":"So if you look into the PFAS topic,I mean, we can find now everywhere."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":194.995,"endTime":197.935,"body":"Pfas in our waters atdifferent concentrations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":198.325,"endTime":203.005,"body":"And, uh, we understand more and moreas a society that they're toxic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":203.575,"endTime":208.474,"body":"And, the industry in the last 50years came up with more than 10,000"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":208.474,"endTime":210.604,"body":"different PFAS, um, chemicals."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":211.054,"endTime":215.576,"body":"And, they can be very long with along, uh, carbon chain or very short."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":216.236,"endTime":220.166,"body":"And for the short chain that are more andmore present in our waters, there's no"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":220.166,"endTime":223.096,"body":"solution out there Activated carbon fails."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":223.636,"endTime":227.146,"body":"Ion exchange resins, uh, fail, especiallyfor the ultra short chain PFAS."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":227.161,"endTime":227.481,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":227.561,"endTime":230.366,"body":"So we saw a huge potentialwith our material."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":230.366,"endTime":230.996,"body":"to solve that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":231.289,"endTime":231.451,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":231.451,"endTime":236.581,"body":"That is, uh, especially in the recentyears, there was a huge discussion about"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":236.611,"endTime":242.291,"body":"these PFAS because there were all thesenegative implications coming up, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":242.591,"endTime":244.571,"body":"suddenly we were looking more into it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":244.571,"endTime":248.981,"body":"And then people discovered, okay, it'sactually everywhere in every person."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":249.701,"endTime":253.061,"body":"And that probably also throughthe water we drink, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":253.288,"endTime":253.616,"body":"Rhea: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":253.616,"endTime":256.106,"body":"Through the water we drink,but also the food we uptake."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":256.166,"endTime":260.576,"body":"So especially in meat, there's a lotof peoples, because it accumulates"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":260.636,"endTime":264.866,"body":"and, um, especially animalsthat we ate, like cows and pigs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":265.576,"endTime":269.666,"body":"And this is a huge problem becauseeven unborn get it through the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":269.666,"endTime":271.606,"body":"blood, uh, of, of the mothers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":271.766,"endTime":272.006,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":272.306,"endTime":275.221,"body":"And then that's where themost vulnerable probably."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":275.221,"endTime":275.846,"body":"Rhea: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":275.906,"endTime":278.332,"body":"And it was a blind spot for a long time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":278.332,"endTime":282.292,"body":"So the industry found thisamazing material actually because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":282.292,"endTime":286.012,"body":"it's repellent against oil,against water, heat resistant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":286.012,"endTime":289.402,"body":"It's really like the holy grailof, uh, all what you can think"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":289.402,"endTime":292.612,"body":"about coating and sealings, andit's used everywhere basically."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":292.612,"endTime":294.652,"body":"And also some very important fields like,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":294.667,"endTime":296.192,"body":"Kevin: implants something like that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":296.34,"endTime":300.9,"body":"Rhea: Ex plans or for surgeries and,uh, many fields we can't get rid of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":300.9,"endTime":305.22,"body":"them and we have to find solution,how we at least prevent that they're"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":305.25,"endTime":307.92,"body":"not leaving the chemical plants."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":308.1,"endTime":308.19,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":308.52,"endTime":310.77,"body":"In form, like in thewastewater for instance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":310.92,"endTime":310.98,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":311.1,"endTime":314.4,"body":"Because this at the end, endup in our waters and comes"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":314.4,"endTime":316.47,"body":"back in in the drinking water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":316.47,"endTime":319.98,"body":"But also, of course in plants and animals."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":320.938,"endTime":324.495,"body":"Kevin: So you're also addressing watertreatment plants, for example, when"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":324.495,"endTime":328.928,"body":"there's a chemical site and they,have their standard treatment plant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":328.928,"endTime":332.853,"body":"I would say they catch mostof the chemicals, but the."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":333.293,"endTime":335.418,"body":"PFAS materials, they go right through,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":335.661,"endTime":335.901,"body":"Rhea: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":335.901,"endTime":335.961,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":337.416,"endTime":337.986,"body":"Half and half."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":337.986,"endTime":340.106,"body":"I would say they're likethis long chain PFAS."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":340.266,"endTime":344.856,"body":"They're also the most damaging andactivated carbon is already widely used."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":344.886,"endTime":348.546,"body":"Especially for the drinking waterfacilities they have now to check the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":348.546,"endTime":352.356,"body":"limits also, and it's cheap and itdoes the work that's actually already"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":352.971,"endTime":356.451,"body":"good news that we have, at leastfor the long chain PFAS solutions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":356.451,"endTime":359.361,"body":"But the short it is the moredifficult it is because."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":359.361,"endTime":363.291,"body":"it behaves more and more like alsolike the soils that are in the water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":363.411,"endTime":367.671,"body":"And then there's starting a competitionbetween the soils and the water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":368.091,"endTime":369.011,"body":"And the PFAS."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":369.326,"endTime":374.456,"body":"Kevin: And I think also the longerchange are getting smaller and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":374.456,"endTime":376.136,"body":"smaller in the treatment plant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":376.136,"endTime":379.916,"body":"And then the end, you havethe C one, C two, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":379.946,"endTime":380.936,"body":"P first, which are."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":381.296,"endTime":382.286,"body":"The most difficult."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":382.286,"endTime":387.266,"body":"And, uh, this is where your materialthen comes in and, uh, can catches"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":387.293,"endTime":387.563,"body":"Rhea: those."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":387.773,"endTime":388.493,"body":"Right, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":388.493,"endTime":391.433,"body":"So we are focusing first inthe industrial wastewater"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":392.108,"endTime":395.017,"body":"because, there you're gonnahave higher concentrations also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":395.017,"endTime":398.643,"body":"And, we do believe that we, that'sthe first step we have to stop"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":398.853,"endTime":400.473,"body":"that they're getting into our waters."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":400.593,"endTime":400.653,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":401.043,"endTime":404.793,"body":"And also there are many sourceswhere, especially like TFA,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":404.793,"endTime":406.323,"body":"the shortest chain PFAS."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":406.533,"endTime":410.313,"body":"is generated through, for instance,PFAS membranes that are widely"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":410.313,"endTime":411.663,"body":"used in the chemical industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":411.668,"endTime":411.718,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":412.178,"endTime":412.798,"body":"And, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":413.343,"endTime":416.073,"body":"There we are talking reallyhigh concentration of peoples."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":416.073,"endTime":419.883,"body":"We are not talking anymore nanograms perliter, but micrograms per liter, even"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":419.883,"endTime":422.403,"body":"milligrams per liter Where TFA is emitted."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":422.463,"endTime":422.973,"body":"And"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":423.003,"endTime":425.133,"body":"there we want to develop a solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":425.581,"endTime":427.801,"body":"Kevin: how does your material, these."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":428.281,"endTime":433.981,"body":"meso-porous silica, how does that, uh,interact with the PFAS to catch it?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":434.175,"endTime":439.729,"body":"Rhea: Yeah, so we, can put various kindof functional groups on the surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":439.729,"endTime":440.989,"body":"We can really engineer it?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":441.529,"endTime":446.599,"body":"And, uh, since we have this orderedpore structure, uh, that makes the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":446.659,"endTime":450.199,"body":"mass transfer very fast through the posbecause usually absorption materials"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":450.199,"endTime":454.079,"body":"like activated carbon or the ionexchange resin, they're coming with an"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":454.109,"endTime":455.899,"body":"unordered pore structure like a sponge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":455.899,"endTime":456.709,"body":"You can imagine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":456.949,"endTime":460.189,"body":"And we are ordered in thenanoscale and it's, you can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":460.189,"endTime":461.779,"body":"imagine like a German auto one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":461.779,"endTime":464.659,"body":"I like to give this examplebecause everyone could understand"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":464.659,"endTime":465.739,"body":"how efficient it works."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":466.054,"endTime":470.464,"body":"And since you have like this Autobahnand with let's say chemical arms"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":470.464,"endTime":473.494,"body":"on the side that catch exactlywhat you want to remove Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":473.734,"endTime":477.904,"body":"Because you engineer the, thesurface, um, you can be then much"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":477.904,"endTime":480.435,"body":"more selective and also, faster."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":480.615,"endTime":484.485,"body":"And that's one of our strong,unique selling points that we are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":484.545,"endTime":487.575,"body":"much, much faster than activatedcarbon or ion exchange resin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":487.886,"endTime":488.153,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":488.628,"endTime":492.168,"body":"Or faster in the sense ofthat you don't need as a big"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":492.168,"endTime":494.748,"body":"package of the active materials."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":494.79,"endTime":497.31,"body":"Rhea: exactly at at the endit's about contact time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":497.31,"endTime":501.45,"body":"So you have to ensure that the contacttime is enough for catching this PFAS."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":501.84,"endTime":508.095,"body":"and of course you have a certain volumethat you have to treat per hour and, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":508.125,"endTime":512.505,"body":"how you can modify the contact time inthat way is that you build big systems"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":512.51,"endTime":517.425,"body":"if you have long contact times or smallersystem for shorter ones, and the faster."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":518.025,"endTime":519.165,"body":"Absorption processes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":519.255,"endTime":524.385,"body":"The smaller, you can also thendesign the, uh, plans and the lowers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":524.385,"endTime":528.225,"body":"Then also the, uh, investmentfor the treatment plans."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":529.031,"endTime":529.181,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":529.181,"endTime":530.981,"body":"Because then it needs to use less."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":531.371,"endTime":536.201,"body":"Um, and uh, you mentioned that youcan engineer the poor structure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":536.576,"endTime":541.466,"body":"So is the interaction also a physicalone or is it actually a chemical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":542.295,"endTime":547.155,"body":"Rhea: It's a chemical interaction So thepores are big enough for letting the, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":547.185,"endTime":552.915,"body":"PFAS molecules, but also the, uh, otherpotential ions through that's important."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":552.965,"endTime":555.575,"body":"Then it's a chemical interactionat the end or physiochemical."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":555.575,"endTime":555.905,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":556.463,"endTime":556.793,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":557.183,"endTime":561.323,"body":"And that's these end groups thatyou are able to engineer, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":561.323,"endTime":563.153,"body":"also could be used for catalysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":563.153,"endTime":564.143,"body":"If you have then an"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":564.654,"endTime":565.115,"body":"Rhea: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":565.115,"endTime":569.725,"body":"Or One other vertical of ours is thecapture of, precious metals also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":569.725,"endTime":572.323,"body":"From complex industrial streams."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":572.495,"endTime":572.505,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":573.655,"endTime":576.175,"body":"Rhea: And then depending whatkind of functional group you put,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":576.385,"endTime":579.133,"body":"uh, you can choose which of themolecules you want to capture."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":580.093,"endTime":580.453,"body":"Kevin: Oh, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":580.497,"endTime":584.032,"body":"that's how you tune the chemicalsyou can get out with this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":584.032,"endTime":584.272,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":584.272,"endTime":584.932,"body":"And groups."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":585.382,"endTime":588.112,"body":"Rhea: Yeah, I'm I'm always,I do like the little joke."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":588.145,"endTime":592.702,"body":"It's kind of tinder for chemistrybecause you are creating a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":592.705,"endTime":595.132,"body":"platform where they can meet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":595.282,"endTime":600.812,"body":"The, this, the filter and uh, themolecule that has to be removed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":600.812,"endTime":601.412,"body":"Recovered."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":601.417,"endTime":601.567,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":601.794,"endTime":603.534,"body":"Kevin: Uh, perfect match then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":604.194,"endTime":604.524,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":604.584,"endTime":606.684,"body":"You can just tune it towhat you want it to be."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":608.296,"endTime":608.896,"body":"Quick break."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":609.102,"endTime":610.702,"body":"First of all, thank you for tuning in."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":610.992,"endTime":612.222,"body":"This really means a lot to me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":612.622,"endTime":614.722,"body":"I would like to ask asmall favor from you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":614.732,"endTime":619.407,"body":"It would really help if you couldfollow Innovate and React on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":619.437,"endTime":620.937,"body":"whatever platform you're listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":621.907,"endTime":626.467,"body":"This helps to reach more people and spreadthe amazing research of my guests further."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":627.487,"endTime":628.547,"body":"Thank you so much for your time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":629.147,"endTime":630.007,"body":"Back to the episode"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":630.57,"endTime":634.98,"body":"when you want to apply this,uh, material, now you are set"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":634.98,"endTime":637.62,"body":"already, the chemical sites."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":638.22,"endTime":643.35,"body":"But what about, uh, water treatmentthat prepare our drinking water?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":643.83,"endTime":647.94,"body":"Is this also feasible there or arethe concentrations already to low?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":648.447,"endTime":651.087,"body":"Rhea: Um, it's, it's notabout the concentration."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":651.207,"endTime":655.827,"body":"Uh, only it's also about the cocontaminants, and we have, depending on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":655.827,"endTime":659.937,"body":"which region you're in germany, very highconcentration of sulfate, for instance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":660.297,"endTime":663.207,"body":"Or it's like the hardness of water,you know, like if you're in Berlin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":663.207,"endTime":666.357,"body":"you just use some water andeverything is white, basically."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":666.447,"endTime":670.467,"body":"And that makes it more challengingto remove, especially short chain and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":670.47,"endTime":671.1,"body":"ultra short chain"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":671.127,"endTime":671.667,"body":"PFAS."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":671.877,"endTime":672.087,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":672.267,"endTime":676.707,"body":"And, uh, this is a challenge that we stillhave to tackle to find the right material."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":677.37,"endTime":680.381,"body":"Um, for industrial wastewater,We do see that, there are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":680.381,"endTime":682.709,"body":"different challenges, but um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":683.531,"endTime":686.109,"body":"that are the ones thatwe want to tackle first."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":686.109,"endTime":686.889,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":687.824,"endTime":688.324,"body":"And, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":689.015,"endTime":693.689,"body":"Where do you see now the biggestchallenge that you have to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":693.689,"endTime":697.049,"body":"overcome to scale your material?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":697.527,"endTime":698.787,"body":"Rhea: That's a very good question."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":698.877,"endTime":701.727,"body":"Um, there I would say not thebiggest chance, but it's like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":701.727,"endTime":702.897,"body":"all connected challenges."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":702.897,"endTime":702.957,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":702.987,"endTime":707.485,"body":"Because, at the beginning you havea rough estimate how much your raw"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":707.485,"endTime":711.415,"body":"materials cost at the lab scale, andthen you can also make an estimate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":711.415,"endTime":714.355,"body":"for the economy of scale, about theraw material in the larger scale."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":714.925,"endTime":716.905,"body":"But, uh, how to scale it up."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":717.115,"endTime":719.756,"body":"Then in, practice and howmuch your material would cost."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":720.356,"endTime":723.866,"body":"This is something that you doyour first estimation and the more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":723.866,"endTime":727.384,"body":"you scale it up, the clear is,at the end the cost structure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":727.864,"endTime":727.954,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":728.194,"endTime":732.304,"body":"But in the same time, you need to make theunit economics for your customer, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":732.574,"endTime":732.664,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":732.904,"endTime":735.976,"body":"And that's, I think, a challengefor startup that, is always"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":735.976,"endTime":739.188,"body":"there, how to be very precise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":739.188,"endTime":740.451,"body":"And also how to, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":740.644,"endTime":744.664,"body":"Talk to the customer with, uh, to bean ally, you know, 'cause of course"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":744.664,"endTime":748.054,"body":"you need customers that are innovatorsand want to try out your material."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":748.084,"endTime":750.454,"body":"And, um, it has to bea strong partnership."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":750.754,"endTime":753.454,"body":"But at the end, we arestartups, so we can't promise,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":753.454,"endTime":755.604,"body":"like, I don't know, lanxess a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":755.604,"endTime":756.441,"body":"ready material."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":757.011,"endTime":759.171,"body":"And we have also to find theright partners to scale it up."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":759.171,"endTime":762.471,"body":"We can build our own productionplant or we go with custom"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":762.571,"endTime":764.041,"body":"manufacturing organizations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":764.611,"endTime":765.631,"body":"And, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":765.931,"endTime":769.171,"body":"This is a way that you have to go thenyou're a small team at the beginning,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":769.171,"endTime":771.271,"body":"so you can't have the whole expertise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":771.541,"endTime":774.511,"body":"You have to find the rightpeople that help you to Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":774.511,"endTime":777.901,"body":"Get consultancy also so thatyou go to the right direction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":778.291,"endTime":778.381,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":778.621,"endTime":781.261,"body":"And you have at the end to juggleeverything, the scale up, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":781.261,"endTime":785.566,"body":"regulatory pathway we are talking, ifwe produce a beyond one ton about reach."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":785.566,"endTime":785.853,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":785.939,"endTime":790.969,"body":"And uh, finding the right customers,scaling up the application and scaling up"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":791.019,"endTime":791.879,"body":"the production"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":792.479,"endTime":793.946,"body":"Kevin: and both simultaneously."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":794.066,"endTime":794.546,"body":"Rhea: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":794.546,"endTime":797.906,"body":"It's uh, sometimes I feellike it's not about chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":797.906,"endTime":801.776,"body":"It's like a orchestra and everyoneis playing in another instrument, but"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":801.776,"endTime":803.849,"body":"somehow it has to sound, uh, good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":804.589,"endTime":804.701,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":804.701,"endTime":810.371,"body":"Especially when scaling up something thatdoesn't already have a market because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":810.371,"endTime":814.636,"body":"it's a new technology in the watertreatment, as you said, then you have to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":815.396,"endTime":816.836,"body":"Do everything at the same time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":816.836,"endTime":819.513,"body":"This, kind of chicken and egg Problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":819.596,"endTime":824.059,"body":"Where, where you basically need customers,but they want to already have proof and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":824.059,"endTime":830.719,"body":"then you can, with only new customers,get the proof and then yeah, that's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":830.719,"endTime":834.859,"body":"sometimes difficult, but I think thatalso offers a big chance because a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":834.859,"endTime":839.209,"body":"new customer at this stage can also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":839.447,"endTime":843.87,"body":"Get the probably really tailoredmaterial for their application."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":843.93,"endTime":844.14,"body":"Rhea: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":844.14,"endTime":846,"body":"There, then the proposition it's clear."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":846.09,"endTime":850.903,"body":"I mean, obviously every startup worksa bit different, but for if we have a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":850.903,"endTime":856.027,"body":"partner at the very beginning and getsthe support, of course, we, um, will"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":856.027,"endTime":858.369,"body":"prioritize this person or,  the company."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":858.864,"endTime":863.663,"body":"And, um, it's, it's a challenge tofind the right company, but also then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":863.873,"endTime":865.043,"body":"the right company with the right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":865.078,"endTime":865.278,"body":"People."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":865.278,"endTime":865.678,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":865.758,"endTime":868.673,"body":"Because at the end, it's all aboutthe people that are working there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":868.814,"endTime":872.294,"body":"Do they have this innovationdriven mindset, or are they more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":872.294,"endTime":873.824,"body":"really on the efficiency side?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":873.914,"endTime":877.754,"body":"Because at the end you are talking toR&D people, they might be a bit more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":877.754,"endTime":881.754,"body":"open, but if you're talking then to theprocess engineer, this process engineer,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":881.777,"endTime":885.894,"body":"he wants to running systems and he willnot just commit to a new technology."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":885.894,"endTime":889.434,"body":"If he's not really sure that whenhe's implementing the system that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":889.434,"endTime":890.904,"body":"he does not gonna have headache."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":891.114,"endTime":894.144,"body":"Because if we causedowntime to his systems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":894.594,"endTime":895.832,"body":"This is not what he wants."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":896.221,"endTime":899.885,"body":"And, uh, this is a huge barrier for,chemistry startups, especially if you're"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":899.885,"endTime":901.872,"body":"in the B2B, if you have an end product"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":902.615,"endTime":904.362,"body":"I think, um, it's a bit easier."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":904.849,"endTime":908.605,"body":"Kevin: But in this sector, that'sprobably difficult to have end product."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":908.897,"endTime":909.167,"body":"Rhea: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":909.167,"endTime":912.197,"body":"I mean, if you, I know somestartups there are, like in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":912.214,"endTime":912.544,"body":"Kevin: field,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":913.097,"endTime":917.073,"body":"Rhea: of cosmetics Oroils where you're really."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":917.391,"endTime":918.771,"body":"Very close to the end product."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":918.771,"endTime":922.734,"body":"Let's say if you are like in thedownstream process, or even, I would say"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":922.734,"endTime":925.854,"body":"not much worse, but much more challengingif you think about the pharma industry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":926.034,"endTime":927.866,"body":"and you're in the GMP area mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":928.096,"endTime":929.966,"body":"is another challenge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":930.296,"endTime":930.506,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":930.645,"endTime":934.31,"body":"But that might also be, youmentioned the, precious metals"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":934.31,"endTime":939.08,"body":"that they use as the catalysts,but sometimes they actually avoid."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":939.35,"endTime":942.71,"body":"Precious meta catalyst becauseof these very low limits"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":942.71,"endTime":943.76,"body":"they have in their products."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":944.15,"endTime":946.97,"body":"And, uh, that I think would also be a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":947.327,"endTime":947.717,"body":"Rhea: yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":947.717,"endTime":948.557,"body":"Interesting Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":948.557,"endTime":952.337,"body":"We're talking also those to customersthat, uh, have that kind of challenging"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":952.337,"endTime":955.787,"body":"streams, especially if they haveto remove from the product stream."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":955.817,"endTime":955.907,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":956.297,"endTime":958.547,"body":"So they can't apply hightemperatures, for instance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":958.64,"endTime":959.57,"body":"Just to evaporate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":959.838,"endTime":962.507,"body":"Just to evaporate or whatever,to get the, uh, catalyst out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":962.837,"endTime":965.884,"body":"And, there are different cases,but it's also difficult to identify"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":965.884,"endTime":967.474,"body":"those cases because at the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":968.044,"endTime":971.032,"body":"You have to be the painkillerand not just a vitamin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":972.099,"endTime":972.389,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":972.604,"endTime":975.754,"body":"Rhea: And you have to identifythis painkillers in the industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":976.414,"endTime":978.214,"body":"of course, also, it's also the truth."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":978.634,"endTime":980.944,"body":"The chemical industry doesn'twant to talk about pain."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":981.712,"endTime":984.358,"body":"Like they have their problems andthey work on the problems, but"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":984.358,"endTime":985.408,"body":"they're not getting going out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":985.408,"endTime":985.498,"body":"And."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":985.498,"endTime":986.878,"body":"Say, we, we have this problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":987.088,"endTime":987.178,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":987.748,"endTime":989.338,"body":"I, I can see it with the tech industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":989.338,"endTime":993.219,"body":"My husband works in the techindustry, and also in the AI field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":993.219,"endTime":996.009,"body":"And you can see like howmuch more open they are."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":996.369,"endTime":997.449,"body":"They have their meet apps."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":997.449,"endTime":1001.259,"body":"They're talking about different challengesthey have, they have hackathons and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1002.039,"endTime":1002.699,"body":"We don't have it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1002.699,"endTime":1005.929,"body":"I mean, we are happy that we havenow that kind of chemical disruption"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1005.959,"endTime":1010.339,"body":"day where the industry is comingtogether and talking to the startups."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1010.729,"endTime":1013.279,"body":"But, uh, Chemstars is just five old."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1013.339,"endTime":1016.789,"body":"And that has a reason because we arejust starting to be more open about"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1017.239,"endTime":1018.892,"body":"Our challenges in the chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1019.432,"endTime":1020.182,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1020.182,"endTime":1025.582,"body":"That's also a development that, uh, Isee now in the discussions with other"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1025.612,"endTime":1031.222,"body":"founders and networks I had so far thatover the past years a lot of movement"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1031.222,"endTime":1037.372,"body":"is coming and, uh, this is also, I thinkwith the current economic challenges"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1037.372,"endTime":1039.352,"body":"that the chemical industry has, they."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1039.982,"endTime":1042.922,"body":"Just don't have another choicethan to innovate more again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1043.462,"endTime":1048.742,"body":"And, uh, startups are a great exampleof how new technologies can be tested"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1048.772,"endTime":1049.102,"body":"and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1049.15,"endTime":1052.616,"body":"they, have maybe also theirresearch and development."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1052.616,"endTime":1056.996,"body":"But to implement something in this hugeorganizations, it's much more difficult."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1056.996,"endTime":1059.619,"body":"And startups can reallymove fast in this way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1059.769,"endTime":1061.387,"body":"Rhea: I do believe also that, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1061.387,"endTime":1064.807,"body":"timing is great for chemicalstartups at the moment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1065.257,"endTime":1069.307,"body":"The state is helping us with a lot ofpublic fundings, pre incorporation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1069.487,"endTime":1072.727,"body":"Which is very important, likeexist, uh, research transfer,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1072.727,"endTime":1074.317,"body":"for instance, a great tour."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1074.322,"endTime":1074.402,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1075.069,"endTime":1080.162,"body":"And also the universities understand nowthat, they need to support with expertise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1080.222,"endTime":1085.549,"body":"So the professors get more, awarenessthat they can support, uh, startups in t"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1085.549,"endTime":1089.239,"body":"Berlin, we build now a whole building for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1089.419,"endTime":1090.589,"body":"Green chemistry startups."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1090.589,"endTime":1094.669,"body":"So if you're a student, a PhD student oreven masters you have your great idea,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1094.999,"endTime":1096.619,"body":"you apply to it and get a free lab."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1097.519,"endTime":1099.817,"body":"And this is geniusbecause that what we need."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1100.147,"endTime":1100.327,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1101.137,"endTime":1107.287,"body":"That's also another way of output fromthis really good, uh, research apparatus"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1107.287,"endTime":1108.877,"body":"I would say we have here in Germany."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1108.918,"endTime":1115.636,"body":"and the output then is not publications,but these, uh, companies and startups."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1115.696,"endTime":1116.026,"body":"Rhea: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1116.236,"endTime":1120.606,"body":"Because I think there's also a littleconflict of interest of the big companies."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1121.266,"endTime":1125.366,"body":"They, usually, or most of thepatents, if they have money, they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1125.366,"endTime":1127.138,"body":"do them to dry out the competition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1127.166,"endTime":1127.436,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1128.171,"endTime":1131.201,"body":"Which is smart of course, becausethey have the core business."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1131.321,"endTime":1133.421,"body":"It's running, they make money with it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1133.421,"endTime":1134.201,"body":"It's efficient."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1134.771,"endTime":1137.161,"body":"Why they should reallydisrupt the industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1137.362,"endTime":1142.042,"body":"And then you have the startupsthat might disrupt it, but, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1142.492,"endTime":1146.605,"body":"If a patent is generated in thecompany, the likelihood is low."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1146.637,"endTime":1151.102,"body":"If it generated in university andthey give the chance to the students"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1151.102,"endTime":1155.902,"body":"to use it really to deploy thispatent, then we can, and there are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1155.902,"endTime":1158.992,"body":"many of that kind of startups becausewe know also like one startup will"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1158.992,"endTime":1160.822,"body":"not solve the change that we have."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1160.822,"endTime":1162.892,"body":"We need hundreds of startups."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1163.132,"endTime":1165.562,"body":"That the most successful then getting out"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1165.712,"endTime":1166.522,"body":"and is changing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1167.182,"endTime":1168.112,"body":"the chemist chemical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1168.115,"endTime":1168.955,"body":"industry basically."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1169.216,"endTime":1170.058,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1170.238,"endTime":1175.068,"body":"I think that's also what we haveseen over the past years in the, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1175.128,"endTime":1180.424,"body":"automotive industry where they reallywere still pushing these, internal"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1180.501,"endTime":1183.135,"body":"combustion engines, but everywhere else."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1183.223,"endTime":1188.323,"body":"Basically they were pushing for EVs andnow all these German car manufacturers"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1188.473,"endTime":1193.663,"body":"have problems and this is also becausethey wanted to stick to their old model."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1193.663,"endTime":1196.143,"body":"And in the chemical industry it might"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1196.155,"endTime":1196.215,"body":"Rhea: be"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1196.303,"endTime":1196.733,"body":"Kevin: similar."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1197.68,"endTime":1201.04,"body":"Rhea: And I mean with that kind of whenwe're here, where actually the startups"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1201.04,"endTime":1207.16,"body":"meet the big companies, let's say yousee that there is a interest also of the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1207.16,"endTime":1209.548,"body":"companies to look into innovations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1209.706,"endTime":1212.526,"body":"And I mean, it's chemistry, we,we are all innovators, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1212.646,"endTime":1214.176,"body":"We all love science."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1214.176,"endTime":1216.486,"body":"We all love to see more efficiency."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1216.486,"endTime":1219.006,"body":"Also, I mean, if you thinkabout Catalysis, there are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1219.006,"endTime":1220.266,"body":"some established systems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1220.266,"endTime":1223.266,"body":"If you Just achieve two or 3% more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1223.266,"endTime":1224.106,"body":"selectivity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1224.111,"endTime":1224.141,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1224.748,"endTime":1227.238,"body":"So much more COT you can save and money."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1227.432,"endTime":1227.882,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1227.884,"endTime":1228.754,"body":"They're also interested."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1229.174,"endTime":1229.324,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1229.544,"endTime":1233.894,"body":"And also new materials, like all thismaterial science, uh, coming from."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1234.434,"endTime":1238.244,"body":"Chemicals like you did forexample, where we really get new"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1238.244,"endTime":1242.924,"body":"materials that also really disruptthe status quo in that sense."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1243.584,"endTime":1247.314,"body":"So where do you seethe vision for Porelio?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1248.231,"endTime":1249.734,"body":"Where do you see you going in the years?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1250.514,"endTime":1255.493,"body":"Rhea: So our vision is thatwe bring to the industry more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1255.493,"endTime":1257.673,"body":"efficient separation technologies."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1258.093,"endTime":1261.933,"body":"That they Get an instrumentthat they can use to recover"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1261.933,"endTime":1263.673,"body":"metals, to get rid of the PFAS."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1263.913,"endTime":1268.263,"body":"And we are part of the solutionthat we as a society face."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1268.28,"endTime":1268.37,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1269.458,"endTime":1271.938,"body":"Rhea: And, of course we wantto scale up our production."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1271.938,"endTime":1274.758,"body":"That means we want to get tothe ton scale in the next years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1275.238,"endTime":1278.988,"body":"We want to find the rightcustomers to go with us this way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1279.618,"endTime":1281.898,"body":"And I think for the nextyears, that's already enough."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1281.988,"endTime":1282.078,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1282.678,"endTime":1288.009,"body":"We just close our first fundraising round,so there's Manpower and money to do that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1288.014,"endTime":1288.334,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1288.669,"endTime":1292.839,"body":"And the visions of course, thatuh, in few years we go to the seed"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1292.839,"endTime":1297.461,"body":"round and then series A and find theright people to go with other way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1297.504,"endTime":1297.774,"body":"way"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1298.076,"endTime":1301.076,"body":"Kevin: That sounds, uh,as a great way to proceed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1301.076,"endTime":1306.986,"body":"And for that also, um, events liketoday are very interesting to connect"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1306.986,"endTime":1312.76,"body":"with other founders and maybe evenwith corporations, you can then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1312.76,"endTime":1314.362,"body":"achieve that goal even faster."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1314.782,"endTime":1315.052,"body":"Rhea: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1315.052,"endTime":1318.142,"body":"And you can have corporationswith other startups."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1318.172,"endTime":1318.292,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1318.712,"endTime":1319.462,"body":"Sometimes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1319.623,"endTime":1321.933,"body":"They have a chance that wecan solve or other way around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1321.993,"endTime":1327.063,"body":"And then two very innovativeunits are working together and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1327.063,"endTime":1328.653,"body":"it's a bit also like a class,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1328.777,"endTime":1332.557,"body":"meetup because You know, actuallyalready some chemical startups."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1332.557,"endTime":1334.78,"body":"And then you meet them again,you ask, how are you doing?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1334.78,"endTime":1335.767,"body":"What are your challenges?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1336.007,"endTime":1337.267,"body":"You can be open, you know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1337.267,"endTime":1338.287,"body":"like You exchange."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1338.287,"endTime":1341.817,"body":"I have also, for instance, aWhatsApp group with female,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1341.847,"endTime":1343.83,"body":"um, green chemistry founder."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1343.845,"endTime":1343.935,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1344.877,"endTime":1348.057,"body":"So it's a German wide, and we arewriting inside if there's a change"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1348.057,"endTime":1349.437,"body":"or if someone has a recommendation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1349.437,"endTime":1352.932,"body":"And we are growing as a communityand it's also important, I think,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1352.932,"endTime":1354.252,"body":"not only for female founders,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1354.252,"endTime":1355.902,"body":"but also to have thecommunity for everyone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1355.902,"endTime":1355.992,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1356.237,"endTime":1360.132,"body":"So we founded, uh, the Associationof industrial green chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1360.342,"endTime":1365.502,"body":"And uh, we just started it to getreally European wide, all startups"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1365.502,"endTime":1367.785,"body":"together to have also political voice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1368.414,"endTime":1368.594,"body":"Kevin: Ah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1368.774,"endTime":1369.944,"body":"That's a very important thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1369.986,"endTime":1370.276,"body":"Rhea: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1370.426,"endTime":1374.771,"body":"Because, uh, for us it's importantthat it's recognized as the waste long."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1375.131,"endTime":1375.221,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1375.461,"endTime":1379.121,"body":"Or we started with the idea2018, so it's almost yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1379.646,"endTime":1380.936,"body":"Nine, eight years old."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1381.065,"endTime":1383.975,"body":"And it needs also long funding times."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1384.395,"endTime":1389.795,"body":"And, um, for instance, if you'refunded only the first three years,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1389.795,"endTime":1391.353,"body":"you can get, the biggest funds."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1391.413,"endTime":1391.503,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1391.773,"endTime":1392.943,"body":"But three years is nothing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1393.243,"endTime":1393.333,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1393.573,"endTime":1393.583,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1393.753,"endTime":1396.093,"body":"And then you're out alreadyand then you struggle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1396.093,"endTime":1397.383,"body":"And I think that has to be changed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1397.383,"endTime":1402.083,"body":"It has to be acknowledged by the,European Union that we need more time"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1402.083,"endTime":1404.5,"body":"for, for that kind of challenges."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1404.727,"endTime":1404.877,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1404.877,"endTime":1408.92,"body":"There is this, gap between theproof of concept and the large scale"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1409.46,"endTime":1413.78,"body":"production, and that's also what Ihad in previous discussions, that this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1413.78,"endTime":1417.104,"body":"is really the point where a startup."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1417.749,"endTime":1422.098,"body":"Might fail or might really havea big win, but I think we could"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1422.098,"endTime":1425.068,"body":"have a lot more of these big winsif the system would change a bit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1425.218,"endTime":1429.868,"body":"And then, yeah, as you mentioned,these uh, networks are great for that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1430.198,"endTime":1437.918,"body":"And also how do you with this networkthen, uh, also go to the EU parlament."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1438.221,"endTime":1443.111,"body":"Rhea: Or Yes, this is, um, ourinterest to establish a voice for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1443.111,"endTime":1446.88,"body":"green chemistry startups in Europe,so can be also national-wide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1446.88,"endTime":1452.851,"body":"I mean the, um, German government has,every year a get together of the uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1452.881,"endTime":1457.561,"body":"chemistry industry where they discusstheir challenges and what they need"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1457.561,"endTime":1461.666,"body":"from the government, and we need tohave a chair also there because it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1461.666,"endTime":1466.426,"body":"normal that they have a lot of peoplethat they employ and that they're"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1466.426,"endTime":1468.273,"body":"listened, but we need to be listened to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1468.278,"endTime":1468.398,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1468.451,"endTime":1470.123,"body":"Because as a whole, it's also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1470.425,"endTime":1471.355,"body":"a lot of people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1471.79,"endTime":1475.679,"body":"do you think that the, especially thegreen chemistry is also represented"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1476.099,"endTime":1479.969,"body":"by the bigger companies or isthis more in the startup scene?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1480.179,"endTime":1482.969,"body":"Rhea: I think there are some efforts,of course, and there are also big"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1482.969,"endTime":1487.319,"body":"companies that are more into the greenchemistry field or have products."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1487.324,"endTime":1487.364,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1487.769,"endTime":1492.539,"body":"I think also that the consumers,they're looking for, um, solutions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1492.809,"endTime":1495.774,"body":"Like if you think about,outwear coatings mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1495.854,"endTime":1498.092,"body":"They're like, I hopethat I spell them right"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1498.102,"endTime":1499.299,"body":"Vaude or Vaude."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1499.442,"endTime":1499.532,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1500.342,"endTime":1503.154,"body":"They do like, you know, thetents and the, backpacks."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1503.395,"endTime":1505.645,"body":"And they already havenow PFAS three coatings."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1505.915,"endTime":1506.065,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1506.575,"endTime":1509.893,"body":"And of course they did it because theconsumer say, Hey, I go to the nature."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1510.077,"endTime":1512.537,"body":"I don't want to createdamage to the nature."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1512.537,"endTime":1516.445,"body":"So they had to find solutions andthat's why we need to discuss also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1516.445,"endTime":1521.406,"body":"with the end consumers, producers,how we can, deliver them solutions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1521.602,"endTime":1522.292,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1522.292,"endTime":1527.752,"body":"It's, uh, always about findinga solution and then there"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1527.764,"endTime":1529.622,"body":"will be customers eventually."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1529.956,"endTime":1530.226,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1530.274,"endTime":1535.498,"body":"And, now that we are, uh, slowly comingto an end of this discussion, do we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1535.498,"endTime":1540.103,"body":"have some tips for future founderswho think they have a great idea in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1540.103,"endTime":1542.096,"body":"the lab and they want to bring this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1542.306,"endTime":1543.388,"body":"To application."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1543.835,"endTime":1544.075,"body":"Rhea: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1544.465,"endTime":1547.855,"body":"I think first of all, find your allies."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1548.035,"endTime":1550.075,"body":"Find the professor whowants to support you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1550.075,"endTime":1550.165,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1550.675,"endTime":1553.825,"body":"Because, uh, you need a lab,you need someone who gives us"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1553.825,"endTime":1556.765,"body":"expertise and will also push you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1556.908,"endTime":1562.068,"body":"Then get connected with the communitybecause we already did a lot of mistakes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1562.158,"endTime":1566.628,"body":"And I think I'm very happy to tellwhat kind of mistakes I did, so"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1566.838,"endTime":1568.338,"body":"you can do at least different ones."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1568.398,"endTime":1568.548,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1569.313,"endTime":1571.701,"body":"Rhea: find your mentor, find smart people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1571.731,"endTime":1573.591,"body":"Find the old people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1573.651,"endTime":1576.891,"body":"I would say to them like, we'rein the mid fifties Have a lot of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1576.891,"endTime":1578.871,"body":"experience in the chemistry field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1579.201,"endTime":1582.951,"body":"And they're happy to supportyou also and be a bit of naive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1583.371,"endTime":1586.251,"body":"It's important becauseit's a huge challenge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1586.551,"endTime":1589.791,"body":"If you think about this huge challengein detail, you will not start"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1589.884,"endTime":1590.514,"body":"Kevin: this journey."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1590.514,"endTime":1590.574,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1591.007,"endTime":1591.187,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1591.187,"endTime":1592.237,"body":"That's, that's a good point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1592.237,"endTime":1596.407,"body":"I think getting started reallyis an important point and not to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1597.292,"endTime":1599.962,"body":"Sit in your chamber andjust think about it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1599.962,"endTime":1604.054,"body":"And until it's a hundred percentsolution, that will always take too long."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1604.054,"endTime":1604.414,"body":"Rhea: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1604.414,"endTime":1606.352,"body":"Go out and talk to the customers also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1606.574,"endTime":1606.754,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1606.962,"endTime":1610.232,"body":"Rhea: Because, um, you don't,you're not having a product and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1610.232,"endTime":1612.512,"body":"then it has to fit to the customer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1612.512,"endTime":1614.747,"body":"The customer has a problemand your product has to fit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1615.044,"endTime":1618.058,"body":"Kevin: And it's also notalways that it has to be."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1618.433,"endTime":1620.023,"body":"Completely, entirely new."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1620.113,"endTime":1620.443,"body":"It can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1620.456,"endTime":1622.933,"body":"just be an improvementon, on the status quo."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1623.215,"endTime":1624.865,"body":"Then thank you very much for your time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1625.049,"endTime":1627.359,"body":"Rhea: what to say Yeah, I just wantto say if you're in Berlin, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1627.359,"endTime":1629.234,"body":"we would love to inviteyou Of course to our labs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1629.234,"endTime":1629.594,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1629.674,"endTime":1631.109,"body":"To show you as our pilot plant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1631.799,"endTime":1632.039,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1632.039,"endTime":1632.249,"body":"That"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1632.386,"endTime":1633.436,"body":"Kevin: be very interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1633.696,"endTime":1634.236,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1634.489,"endTime":1636.169,"body":"Also, thank you so much for listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1636.769,"endTime":1641.419,"body":"If you want to learn more aboutwater treatment and Porelio's special"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1641.419,"endTime":1646.149,"body":"mesoporous silica, visit theirwebsite with the link in the show"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1646.149,"endTime":1648.209,"body":"notes or contact Rhea on LinkedIn"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1648.685,"endTime":1652.315,"body":"If you made it this far intothe episode, you are the kind"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1652.315,"endTime":1654.075,"body":"of person I'm doing this for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1654.395,"endTime":1656.395,"body":"There's now a way youcan support the show."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1656.895,"endTime":1660.925,"body":"By going on Buy Me A Coffee withthe link in the show notes, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1660.925,"endTime":1666.055,"body":"can chip in a one-time amount orbecome a subscriber of the show."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1666.649,"endTime":1667.469,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1667.839,"endTime":1669.569,"body":"Keep innovating and stay curious"}]}