{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":null,"startTime":2.324,"endTime":4.129,"body":"Kevin: Welcome to Innovate and React."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4.479,"endTime":8.489,"body":"Today's episode will be abouthow Catalysis can be used for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":8.539,"endTime":13.129,"body":"water treatment and possiblyreduce pollution from shipping."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":13.909,"endTime":19.049,"body":"I'm very happy to welcome Janek Bettingto the show who's currently doing a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":19.349,"endTime":25.009,"body":"PhD in Catalysis at the Universityof Twente in the Netherlands."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":25.229,"endTime":25.809,"body":"Hi Janek."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":27.389,"endTime":27.809,"body":"Janek: Hi, Kevin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":27.989,"endTime":31.689,"body":"Thanks, uh, for inviting me and veryhappy to see you back after quite a while."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":32.495,"endTime":35.122,"body":"Kevin: We know each otherfrom Dortmund university."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":35.891,"endTime":40.766,"body":"There you did also some catalysis researchand what brought you to Twente now?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":42.415,"endTime":42.585,"body":"Janek: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":42.725,"endTime":47.585,"body":"Uh, as you say, as you said, my, my veryearly start of catis research started at"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":47.585,"endTime":51.305,"body":"the technical university of, uh, Dortmund,actually under supervision of you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":51.605,"endTime":52.545,"body":"So I'm a bachelor thesis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":52.545,"endTime":55.985,"body":"This, uh, when I did my firstresearch project, I designed, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":56.015,"endTime":58.025,"body":"ligands for homogeneous catis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":58.765,"endTime":62.475,"body":"I moved on to, Leiden University,and that's a university in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":62.475,"endTime":66.635,"body":"Netherlands, and I did my ErasmusPlus, uh, abroad semester there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":67.055,"endTime":69.035,"body":"And I really fell inlove to the Netherlands."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":69.295,"endTime":73.355,"body":"So for me, it was pretty clear thatafter my, uh, masters I wanted to,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":73.455,"endTime":76.915,"body":"go back to the Netherlands and Ifound the PhD position there in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":76.915,"endTime":80.315,"body":"group of catalytic processes andmaterials at the University of Twente."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":80.855,"endTime":83.995,"body":"So now about, uh, three years,a bit more than three years ago,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":84.455,"endTime":87.715,"body":"um, I started demo research andnow I'm, working catalysis there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":88.372,"endTime":88.612,"body":"Kevin: Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":88.885,"endTime":94.935,"body":"Yeah, the Netherlands are a nicecountry also when it comes to research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":95.275,"endTime":99.855,"body":"Uh, some of my friends also studythere and I've, uh, heard good"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":99.855,"endTime":101.455,"body":"things about the universities there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":102.115,"endTime":109.255,"body":"So now let's talk a bit aboutyour research and the application."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":109.435,"endTime":115.495,"body":"So as you said, catalysis, now, whatis the reaction you are looking at?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":116.8,"endTime":119.752,"body":"Janek: I am currently working on thenitrate and nitrite reduction reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":120.012,"endTime":121.672,"body":"That's a liquid phase reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":121.672,"endTime":126.712,"body":"So we treat nitrates and nitritesthat are dissolved in in water, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":126.892,"endTime":128.592,"body":"we reduce them with using hydrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":129.667,"endTime":131.047,"body":"On a heterogeneous catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":131.067,"endTime":135.757,"body":"So we have a multi-phase reactionsystem, that aims for the removal"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":135.977,"endTime":140.117,"body":"of nitrate and nitrite speciesfrom wastewaters, for instance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":140.927,"endTime":143.947,"body":"Kevin: And, uh, where dothese waste waters come from?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":146.182,"endTime":149.042,"body":"Janek: Um, there's actually multiplesources that you can think of."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":149.542,"endTime":154.612,"body":"The most prominent source isprobably off waters from agriculture."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":154.612,"endTime":158.052,"body":"So if you think about fertilizeruse, we have, uh, many nitrogen"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":158.166,"endTime":159.875,"body":"components that on the one hand side."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":160.905,"endTime":164.725,"body":"Are very helpful because thatcan, they can, um, use, be used as"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":164.965,"endTime":169.415,"body":"fertilizers and therefore increasethe productivity of agriculture."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":169.715,"endTime":174.055,"body":"But on the other hand, if we don'tmanage them properly, that uh, leads to a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":174.295,"endTime":179.375,"body":"nitrogen cycle that becomes increasinglyimbalance and that can in consequence then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":179.455,"endTime":184.615,"body":"lead to eutrophication of surface watersor can, uh, threaten the biodiversity,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":185.475,"endTime":190.74,"body":"can also lead to health issues ifwe have them in our drinking water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":191.24,"endTime":194.78,"body":"Um, but you could also think ofindustrial processes that have nitrates"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":194.78,"endTime":197.3,"body":"or nitrites in their waste streams."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":198.175,"endTime":198.465,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":198.505,"endTime":204.795,"body":"I think in, agriculture contexts likethis over fertilization really is a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":205.525,"endTime":213.795,"body":"thing that also some rivers are basicallygetting a lot of pollution from too much"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":214.275,"endTime":216.955,"body":"fertilizer use, which kind of feeds."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":218.2,"endTime":223.9,"body":"All the people around, but also thenyeah, has then some negative side effects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":224.88,"endTime":229.94,"body":"And another source, um, that youmentioned when we talked before"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":229.95,"endTime":235.94,"body":"where from shipping, so there youare also in a research project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":236.91,"endTime":238.14,"body":"Maybe tell me a bit about"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":238.205,"endTime":238.825,"body":"Janek: Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":239.765,"endTime":243.985,"body":"The project we are in is calledLNG zero and we actually look"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":244.455,"endTime":245.951,"body":"into how we can make the um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":246.001,"endTime":250.471,"body":"after treatment system of cargo shipsor in general, very big ships, like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":250.471,"endTime":254.551,"body":"not the small ferries or so, but reallybig ships that, uh, ship containers"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":254.581,"endTime":259.671,"body":"from, um, one end of the world to theother end of the world and think of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":259.671,"endTime":260.991,"body":"how can we make them more sustainable?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":261.491,"endTime":266.137,"body":"And this is a project, that aimsfor the use of LNG, so liquified"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":266.137,"endTime":268.857,"body":"natural gas as, uh, fuel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":270.472,"endTime":276.282,"body":"That has first of all, advantages thatthe direct burning of LNG has less or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":276.282,"endTime":280.562,"body":"fewer carbon dioxide emissions thanum, what is currently mostly used."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":280.592,"endTime":282.905,"body":"That would be a me team, diesel oil,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":283.485,"endTime":287.447,"body":"Kevin: That's usually like thewaste of the refinery, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":287.477,"endTime":288.087,"body":"Like what?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":288.367,"endTime":292.827,"body":"Whatever is not used in other,fuels that they can just burn"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":292.847,"endTime":294.307,"body":"in these giant ship motors."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":295.374,"endTime":296.181,"body":"Janek: Yeah, pretty much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":296.241,"endTime":300.461,"body":"And, and as you said, that's really likewhen I, when I first saw the, uh, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":300.461,"endTime":304.671,"body":"figures and all the, the data, theseship engines are really very huge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":305.051,"endTime":309.021,"body":"So it's, it's very difficult to imaginehow, how that really looks like, yeah, in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":309.021,"endTime":313.621,"body":"the end, the idea is if, if we use LNG,that we, just by switching the fuel can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":313.621,"endTime":315.861,"body":"already make the exhaust way cleaner."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":316.441,"endTime":319.981,"body":"On the other hand, we still haveemissions, but we, as the name says"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":320.061,"endTime":322.181,"body":"LNG zero then aim for zero emission."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":322.761,"endTime":326.421,"body":"Um, and therefore we have multipleprocess steps and that the University"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":326.421,"endTime":330.381,"body":"of Twente have actually threedifferent PhD projects and, uh, one,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":330.441,"endTime":331.861,"body":"one postdoc working on that project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":332.361,"endTime":336.114,"body":"And that's a consortium, consisting ofa couple of industry partners, but also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":336.929,"endTime":341.07,"body":"TNO, that's the, research Institute ofthe Netherlands for applied research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":341.69,"endTime":346.23,"body":"And that project has actuallyfour different steps that are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":346.44,"endTime":348.07,"body":"first the methane oxidation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":348.07,"endTime":350.75,"body":"So whenever you think of methaneor a combustion, there is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":350.91,"endTime":352.07,"body":"probably incomplete combustions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":352.73,"endTime":356.95,"body":"Um, and that leaves a methane slipand this methane slip, as you may"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":356.95,"endTime":360.35,"body":"know, uh, methane has a higher globalwarming potential than carbon dioxide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":360.49,"endTime":361.71,"body":"So we really wanna prevent that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":362.01,"endTime":364.79,"body":"And one of my colleagues,um, my team, Chike ano."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":365.555,"endTime":368.945,"body":"Is developing the catalyst forthis process step in order to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":369.135,"endTime":370.905,"body":"convert the methane into carbon"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":371.015,"endTime":371.505,"body":"dioxide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":371.55,"endTime":376.01,"body":"Kevin: So that's in the exhaust wherethere's still some methane left, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":376.01,"endTime":381.29,"body":"then he's researching on a catalystthat basically burns all the leftover"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":381.4,"endTime":387.31,"body":"methane and then has less emissionsor less greenhouse gas potential"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":387.31,"endTime":390.95,"body":"because CO2 is less, uh, then methane."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":392.615,"endTime":393.195,"body":"Janek: Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":393.335,"endTime":396.995,"body":"So, so you could think of, we havea very horrible greenhouse gas"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":397.065,"endTime":401.265,"body":"methane and we convert it to a lesshorrible greenhouse gas, namely CO2."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":401.725,"endTime":404.965,"body":"And we actually don't stop there,but we also want to take this carbon"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":404.965,"endTime":410.125,"body":"dioxide out of the exhaust stream bydoing carbon capture and general, there"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":410.125,"endTime":415.015,"body":"is already a lot of research goingon to capture carbon dioxide, be from"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":415.015,"endTime":419.575,"body":"point sources, such as exhaust gasesas we do, or wire direct air capture."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":420.085,"endTime":424.135,"body":"And we also want to do thiscarbon capture on the ship."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":424.495,"endTime":427.105,"body":"So we wanna store the capturedcarbon dioxide on the ship,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":427.675,"endTime":430.615,"body":"and then we can unload it on aport and pump it into a ground."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":430.975,"endTime":438.445,"body":"Or we can also use it as a resource andmake new LNG from this carbon dioxide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":439.075,"endTime":443.605,"body":"But the last step, like the utilization ofthe carbon dioxide is beyond this project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":444.175,"endTime":447.805,"body":"But what we do do is that we wantto capture the carbon dioxide"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":447.805,"endTime":453.175,"body":"from the exhaust stream on theship to regain this net emissions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":454.155,"endTime":458.495,"body":"And then, uh, the next process stepwould be the NOx removal because whenever"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":458.495,"endTime":463.535,"body":"you have a combustion process, you willhave, um, NOx emissions and you can."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":464.175,"endTime":468.075,"body":"In the so-called scrubbing process,remove these NOx emissions by"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":468.075,"endTime":469.875,"body":"just washing them out with water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":470.935,"endTime":475.795,"body":"And then, um, you can transferthe NOx gases into nitrates and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":475.795,"endTime":477.235,"body":"nitrates that are dissolved in water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":477.695,"endTime":480.275,"body":"And as you remember what myresearch is about, then my"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":480.275,"endTime":482.075,"body":"process step comes into play."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":482.555,"endTime":486.515,"body":"'cause we then, uh, try to removethese nitrates and nitrites in a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":486.515,"endTime":489.915,"body":"catalytic reactor and form, uh,nitrogen, which would then be harmless."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":490.29,"endTime":495.3,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, nitrogen is alreadya lot of the air, so yeah, that's."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":496.24,"endTime":497.06,"body":"Not really a problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":497.72,"endTime":501.9,"body":"And, um, how would theyusually do this process step?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":502.74,"endTime":506.88,"body":"So if you want to, uh, reducethe emissions from that, how's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":506.9,"endTime":508.72,"body":"the state of the art right now?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":509.02,"endTime":509.24,"body":"Uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":510.73,"endTime":514.39,"body":"Janek: Um, as far as I know, thereis mainly two technology that's on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":514.39,"endTime":517.83,"body":"the one hand sent the, the scrubbingthat we use, uh in different ways."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":518.25,"endTime":521.03,"body":"The alternative would be, aselective catalytic reduction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":521.57,"endTime":525.41,"body":"So that would be a gas phaseprocess where the NOx gases are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":525.41,"endTime":527.81,"body":"then also, reduced to, to nitrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":528.06,"endTime":530.5,"body":"Mostly with the help ofeither urea or ammonia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":530.84,"endTime":533.98,"body":"Um, that would be, let's say, thestate of the art in the gas phase"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":534.4,"endTime":535.86,"body":"or in, in liquid phase systems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":536,"endTime":537.09,"body":"We have scrubbing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":537.09,"endTime":537.97,"body":"In scrubbing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":537.97,"endTime":539.405,"body":"There's different approaches."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":539.945,"endTime":545.725,"body":"But the key point is that mostof the times the Scrubbing Brine"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":546.225,"endTime":547.695,"body":"is just discarded to the sea."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":548.115,"endTime":552.735,"body":"So we don't treat them further,uh, but just throw them into the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":552.86,"endTime":553.15,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":553.44,"endTime":555.31,"body":"dilution will do its job or something."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":556.995,"endTime":558.525,"body":"Janek: Yeah, that's, that's the thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":558.545,"endTime":559.895,"body":"And what's the main problem?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":559.895,"endTime":563.815,"body":"There's also that there is very littleregistration like on, if you think of the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":563.815,"endTime":566.685,"body":"high see, that doesn't exist too much law."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":566.735,"endTime":567.085,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":567.465,"endTime":568.205,"body":"Who would check that?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":568.265,"endTime":569.245,"body":"How would you check that?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":569.665,"endTime":575.445,"body":"And therefore, the economicallymost feasible option is of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":575.445,"endTime":576.525,"body":"course, just dumping it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":576.605,"endTime":576.895,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":577.775,"endTime":581.985,"body":"Yeah, but that has anegative track record."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":582.825,"endTime":587.578,"body":"I think, uh, back in the daysthey also had a lot of, Sulfur"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":587.595,"endTime":591.755,"body":"waste from the chemical industryand they also just loaded that on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":591.875,"endTime":593.155,"body":"ships and dumped it into the sea."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":593.155,"endTime":599.155,"body":"And that led to, especially inthe North and East Sea, to um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":599.86,"endTime":600.15,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":600.22,"endTime":603.43,"body":"Drop in pH, which wasthen really a problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":603.97,"endTime":608.55,"body":"And I think also in these moreconfined sees, a lot of nitrate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":609.16,"endTime":614.43,"body":"would also, yeah, probably lead tomore algae and, and stuff like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":614.43,"endTime":614.75,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":615.664,"endTime":615.944,"body":"Janek: true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":615.964,"endTime":620.064,"body":"If you, if you discard, uh, as you said,it's a matter of concentration, but if"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":620.064,"endTime":624.064,"body":"you just dump enough, then also, uh,you will have the eutrofication problem"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":624.064,"endTime":627.984,"body":"that you grow more algae, that youreduce the amount of oxygen and the."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":628.249,"endTime":630.294,"body":"And at some point the,the water might tip over."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":630.714,"endTime":633.094,"body":"Um, acidification is also a problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":633.194,"endTime":638.924,"body":"So if you scrub, the pH typically of thesebrines is decreased, so, uh, the pH of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":638.924,"endTime":640.924,"body":"the ocean would also decrease over time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":641.269,"endTime":641.559,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":641.869,"endTime":642.159,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":642.439,"endTime":647.759,"body":"I think for the High Sea, it'sprobably not, at least for a short"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":648.109,"endTime":650.799,"body":"time, not, not that much of a problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":651.749,"endTime":656.329,"body":"But yeah, close to the coast, uh,where there's less mixture and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":656.329,"endTime":661.529,"body":"less, uh, water to mix with, itmight, uh, cause more problems"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":661.959,"endTime":663.649,"body":"also in the ecosystems over there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":664.187,"endTime":664.877,"body":"Quick break."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":665.747,"endTime":668.417,"body":"Thank you very much forlistening to the show."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":669.077,"endTime":671.267,"body":"I would like to ask asmall favor from you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":671.987,"endTime":676.427,"body":"Please hit the follow button and leavea review on wherever you are listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":677.027,"endTime":679.577,"body":"This really helps me andcosts nothing to you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":680.417,"endTime":682.067,"body":"Thank you very much for your time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":682.547,"endTime":683.477,"body":"Back to the episode."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":683.844,"endTime":690.318,"body":"How is your reaction now set up that youcan remove those nitrates and nitrites?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":691.054,"endTime":694.659,"body":"Janek: Yeah, so what we basicallyuse, or let's say in our fundamental"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":694.939,"endTime":698.499,"body":"research, we, we typically just have,uh, nitrates or nitrates dissolved."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":698.759,"endTime":703.699,"body":"Uh, we prepare our catalyst and thenwe either use a semi batch reactor,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":704.009,"endTime":707.539,"body":"that would be then a liquid phasereactor with continuous gas flow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":707.759,"endTime":712.099,"body":"And the gas flow is then consisting ofhydrogen as reducing agent and carbon"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":712.209,"endTime":716.772,"body":"dioxide as buffering agent 'cause the,pH of this reaction would increase."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":716.832,"endTime":722.462,"body":"So we consume protons in order to reducethe nitrates and nitrites to to nitrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":722.682,"endTime":725.622,"body":"And in order to fundamentallyunderstand the reaction, we keep"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":725.842,"endTime":731.622,"body":"try to keep the pH constant andthen we try to improve the catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":731.842,"endTime":734.062,"body":"We try to have a look onthe reaction kinetics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":735.292,"endTime":736.992,"body":"To better understand the reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":737.332,"endTime":742.435,"body":"And my particular research focus is the,uh, preparation of bimetallic catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":742.975,"endTime":747.355,"body":"In our group, we previously did a lot ofresearch on nitrite reduction reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":747.355,"endTime":749.115,"body":"So NO two minus reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":749.315,"endTime":749.435,"body":"Reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":749.735,"endTime":752.548,"body":"And that is typically done underin palladium catalyst systems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":753.218,"endTime":757.988,"body":"However, if you use nitrate, NO threeminus, you do need a second metal."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":758.528,"endTime":763.618,"body":"Um, that promotes the first reactionstep from nitrates to nitrites,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":764.088,"endTime":765.428,"body":"and I'm playing around with tin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":765.598,"endTime":770.308,"body":"There is also other, uh, options,namely indium or copper, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":770.578,"endTime":773.068,"body":"they are, let's say, all similar."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":773.973,"endTime":777.753,"body":"Tin and copper are the, the mostused ones also because of the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":777.753,"endTime":779.353,"body":"availability of, of tin and copper."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":779.813,"endTime":780.193,"body":"Tin is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":781.313,"endTime":786.443,"body":"A bit more active than copper and,until now, a bit less investigated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":786.463,"endTime":788.523,"body":"So that's why we chose for, for tin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":789.143,"endTime":794.883,"body":"And the research gap I found at thebeginning is that you have a quite diverse"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":794.913,"endTime":799.283,"body":"landscape of researchers looking at thereaction from the engineering perspective,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":799.283,"endTime":805.083,"body":"from catalysis perspective, from Aerinperspective, um, and that leads to very"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":805.083,"endTime":807.963,"body":"different approaches and sometimes also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":808.998,"endTime":811.898,"body":"Um, let's say interestingcatalyst formulations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":812.358,"endTime":812.578,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":812.768,"endTime":812.988,"body":"Kevin: How,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":813.208,"endTime":816.798,"body":"Janek: Yeah, let's say there is, there'smany ways on how to prepare catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":817.258,"endTime":820.478,"body":"And the easiest one you can thinkof is just wet impregnation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":820.478,"endTime":824.327,"body":"So if you think of a porous,support material that host the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":824.327,"endTime":826.967,"body":"metal, you would impregnate them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":827.652,"endTime":832.462,"body":"With, uh, a precursor solution andevaporate or, or filter off the,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":832.482,"endTime":835.992,"body":"the mother liquor that you, in theend have your solid support particle"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":836.012,"endTime":838.172,"body":"with the catalyst precursor, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":839.157,"endTime":843.097,"body":"If you do that with two metals andyou do that without any control, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":843.097,"endTime":846.657,"body":"metals will be all over the place,so there's probably no preferential"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":846.657,"endTime":847.977,"body":"deposition of the two metals."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":848.517,"endTime":853.657,"body":"On the other hand, the reactionmechanism tells us that in the nitrate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":853.857,"endTime":856.937,"body":"reduction reaction, the two metals,in my case, palladium and tin, do"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":856.937,"endTime":859.717,"body":"need to have contact to do the job."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":860.257,"endTime":865.567,"body":"So the tin reduces the nitrateto nitrite, but it needs the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":865.567,"endTime":866.647,"body":"palladium to be recovered."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":867.427,"endTime":871.312,"body":"So in Catalysis, we always wannahave a closed catalytic cycle, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":871.312,"endTime":875.792,"body":"the tin itself cannot close, isnot, uh, safe, sustain, like it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":875.792,"endTime":878.652,"body":"needs the palladium to be rereduced."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":878.892,"endTime":883.712,"body":"Um, and if it's then in, in the absence ofpalladium, that tin wouldn't do anything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":884.092,"endTime":885.752,"body":"So we really need this close proximity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":885.787,"endTime":890.727,"body":"Kevin: So it would just be a normalnon catalytic reaction where the tin"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":890.727,"endTime":896.007,"body":"is used up, and then it would stop andyou would basically need quantitative"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":896.037,"endTime":898.247,"body":"amounts of tin to perform this reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":899.872,"endTime":901.652,"body":"Janek: Uh, yes indeed inthe, in the extreme case."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":901.672,"endTime":904.992,"body":"Yes, of course, if you do this,uh, sequential impregnation,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":905.042,"endTime":908.932,"body":"statistically, you will also have someproximity between tin and palladium."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":909.312,"endTime":910.812,"body":"But that's far from being optimized."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":910.872,"endTime":914.302,"body":"And if you really wanna understandwhat's going on, you better want to have."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":915.217,"endTime":917.867,"body":"Them in close contact, and yet atleast you wanna know what's happening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":917.867,"endTime":921.917,"body":"And what we tried and investigatein the last couple of years is a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":921.917,"endTime":923.557,"body":"so-called controlled surface deposition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":924.097,"endTime":931.067,"body":"So we tried to deposit the tin selectivelyonto the palladium, and we found out, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":931.962,"endTime":933.272,"body":"Quite interesting trends already."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":933.292,"endTime":937.352,"body":"So the deposition behavior, for instance,depends highly on the support material."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":938.132,"endTime":943.472,"body":"Um, but most importantly that theamount of tin you need on this palladium"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":943.892,"endTime":947.432,"body":"is significantly less than when allwhat all people, uh, do literature."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":947.732,"endTime":954.855,"body":"So if they, use bike ratios, let's say,um, based on weight percent, half tin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":954.875,"endTime":958.895,"body":"So one to two ratio tin to pallium orso, uh, that would be way too much if you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":958.895,"endTime":960.945,"body":"prepare the catalyst in a controlled way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":962.015,"endTime":964.515,"body":"And that's, let's saythe, the main advancement."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":964.515,"endTime":969.145,"body":"We see that we need only very littletin if that's well deposited on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":969.17,"endTime":969.59,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":969.78,"endTime":974.95,"body":"Because probably when you do this, uh,random approach, you also get a lot"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":974.95,"endTime":979.91,"body":"of tin without palladium contact, andthose would perform direction just once."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":980.51,"endTime":981.63,"body":"Although there might be a lot of."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":982.795,"endTime":988.485,"body":"Active, uh, sites in the first place, butthen they could not regenerate, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":989.085,"endTime":990.695,"body":"Janek: Exactly that is, that is the case."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":990.755,"endTime":996.255,"body":"So you, you would underutilizethe, uh, potential of your metal."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":997.285,"endTime":1000.905,"body":"And the, the second advantage ofthis materials is that we have,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1001.445,"endTime":1003.875,"body":"still quite some palladium available."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1003.975,"endTime":1006.835,"body":"So we have then, uh, the, the tin mainly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1008.025,"endTime":1010.565,"body":"On the palladium or in thesubsurface of the palladium."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1011.105,"endTime":1014.605,"body":"And that leaves also quite some palladiumopen for the nitrite reduction reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1014.605,"endTime":1018.045,"body":"So what we see is that thesecatalysts have very similar activity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1019.05,"endTime":1020.63,"body":"On the nitrite reduction reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1020.93,"endTime":1025.27,"body":"So the, the second reaction stop step,as the the bare palladium catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1025.27,"endTime":1028.99,"body":"And if you think about a process lateron where you would like to convert both"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1029.39,"endTime":1033.6,"body":"materials, both, uh, reagents, nitratesand nitrates, um that's highly beneficial."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1033.6,"endTime":1037.96,"body":"You have a catalyst that does the firstreaction step, but with the second"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1038.28,"endTime":1043.2,"body":"reaction step is not substantially slowerthan, uh, with bare palladium killers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1043.565,"endTime":1044.105,"body":"Kevin: Oh, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1044.175,"endTime":1047.345,"body":"Yeah, that's also good newsif you want to have this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1048.54,"endTime":1050.78,"body":"Tandem reaction, I think youcould call it also, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1051.21,"endTime":1051.9,"body":"That you have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1052.035,"endTime":1052.325,"body":"Janek: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1052.725,"endTime":1052.885,"body":"of."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1053.1,"endTime":1055.34,"body":"Kevin: reactions and then Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1055.36,"endTime":1058.98,"body":"If there, if there's a bottleneckin between, that would basically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1059.41,"endTime":1060.74,"body":"destroy the whole performance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1061.427,"endTime":1065.487,"body":"Janek: Yes, indeed our common past withtandem catalysis is somehow comparable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1065.487,"endTime":1066.367,"body":"It's a bit different."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1066.547,"endTime":1070.967,"body":"So if you really want to have a look atthe, the fundamentals, I think tandem"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1070.967,"endTime":1074.087,"body":"catalysis, if I remember correctly,you would have the same active side"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1074.337,"endTime":1075.967,"body":"doing the job for all reactions"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1077.091,"endTime":1082.911,"body":"Kevin: yeah, with one catalystdoing all directions and you don't"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1082.911,"endTime":1090.381,"body":"have to add anything, that's thenauto tandem catalysis and with two"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1090.804,"endTime":1098.184,"body":"different, uh, precursors, it can beorthogonal, tandem, catalysis, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1098.184,"endTime":1100.374,"body":"I think that might be the case here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1100.688,"endTime":1101.308,"body":"Janek: But yeah, indeed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1101.308,"endTime":1105.268,"body":"If you, if you zoom out a bit, um, wehave essentially two reactions running at"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1105.268,"endTime":1110.878,"body":"the same time with one catalyst materialthat hosts then activities for, for both"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1111.088,"endTime":1111.378,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1112.358,"endTime":1112.648,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1112.648,"endTime":1113.128,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1113.558,"endTime":1117.408,"body":"From a catalyst's designperspective, that's, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1118.483,"endTime":1122.808,"body":"Definitely also a challenge, buthas huge potential because you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1123.818,"endTime":1125.568,"body":"don't need two reaction steps."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1126.228,"endTime":1126.648,"body":"In theory."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1126.948,"endTime":1130.008,"body":"You could probably also do thereaction in two steps with two"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1130.008,"endTime":1133.258,"body":"reactors, or is this not possible?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1135.038,"endTime":1138.188,"body":"Janek: Um, that's a good question."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1138.418,"endTime":1139.588,"body":"Well, it would be challenging."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1140.393,"endTime":1143.802,"body":"Let's say the second reaction stepyou could easily do in a second react."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1144.262,"endTime":1146.682,"body":"The problem is that the secondreaction step is typically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1146.682,"endTime":1147.842,"body":"faster than the first one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1147.902,"endTime":1152.162,"body":"So if we want to go from nitratesto nitrites, that is in the overall"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1152.162,"endTime":1153.962,"body":"process, the, the rate determining step."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1154.342,"endTime":1156.722,"body":"And then once you have thenitrates, they're quite"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1156.722,"endTime":1158.282,"body":"quickly converted to nitrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1158.742,"endTime":1162.242,"body":"And that is also one of the bigfundamental problems in this reactions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1163.182,"endTime":1167.492,"body":"'cause if you have a slowsupply of NO two minus."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1169.072,"endTime":1174.372,"body":"You will have relatively high hydrogento nitrogen ratios on your catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1175.072,"endTime":1178.852,"body":"And the main issue of this reactionis the selectivity towards ammonia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1179.312,"endTime":1185.212,"body":"And if you have high hydrogen tonitrogen ratios, the likelihood"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1185.232,"endTime":1186.532,"body":"to form ammonia is higher."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1188.502,"endTime":1188.792,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1188.892,"endTime":1192.392,"body":"And, uh, ammonia, you want to prevent."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1194.472,"endTime":1197.092,"body":"Janek: Yes, you could of coursethink of, Hey ammonia, there's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1197.092,"endTime":1198.532,"body":"also a lot of research on ammonia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1198.752,"endTime":1200.332,"body":"Uh, why don't we wanna make ammonia?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1200.632,"endTime":1206.055,"body":"Uh, but the, the typical concentrationswe use are 50 milligrams liter,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1206.055,"endTime":1207.375,"body":"maybe a hundred milligrams liter."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1207.755,"endTime":1209.055,"body":"So it's very, very low."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1209.395,"endTime":1211.465,"body":"And if you really wannamake, value product."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1211.465,"endTime":1217.445,"body":"Out of that, then you will have, uh,a difficult life in, isolating these,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1217.745,"endTime":1219.205,"body":"and then in the end, selling them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1219.225,"endTime":1220.405,"body":"And if we think of ammonia,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1220.74,"endTime":1221.92,"body":"Kevin: That's a huge process."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1222.125,"endTime":1222.845,"body":"Janek: has some value."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1223.355,"endTime":1223.645,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1223.745,"endTime":1226.965,"body":"But the, the scale ofthese processes is so big."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1227.345,"endTime":1232.115,"body":"Um, so I, I'm not a. Let's say my,my background is chemistry and I'm"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1232.175,"endTime":1235.435,"body":"not an expert in technomics, but Ithink you don't have to be an expert"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1235.435,"endTime":1239.315,"body":"to, to realize that it's probablynot so sensible to convert 50 50"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1239.595,"endTime":1243.885,"body":"milligrams per liter, uh, into ammonia,which is also not super expensive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1243.905,"endTime":1249.045,"body":"So Yeah, we, we rather want toproduce nitrogen and therefore reduce"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1249.065,"endTime":1251.125,"body":"the environmental impact of these"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1251.47,"endTime":1252.14,"body":"Kevin: definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1253.04,"endTime":1261.544,"body":"Um, maybe let's, also go back shortlyto your setup when you use gaseous"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1261.804,"endTime":1265.164,"body":"hydrogen as the reducing agent."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1266.094,"endTime":1271.034,"body":"And you have your liquids,uh, brine, and you contact all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1271.034,"endTime":1272.994,"body":"of them with your catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1274.114,"endTime":1279.484,"body":"How, how do you do the contactbetween gas and liquid?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1279.584,"endTime":1280.844,"body":"You probably dissolve it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1282.084,"endTime":1284.904,"body":"Janek: Yes, actually, actuallythat's a relatively easy setup."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1285.094,"endTime":1288.744,"body":"It's a semi batch reactor, so you canthink of a one liter glass vessel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1289.124,"endTime":1292.864,"body":"And then we put there some liquid,typically 300 milliliters, and we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1292.864,"endTime":1295.704,"body":"continuously feed, uh, the gas mixture."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1296.574,"endTime":1298.244,"body":"We steer that quite vigorously."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1298.304,"endTime":1301.404,"body":"So mass transport is alsoa, a big issue or like a."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1302.444,"endTime":1306.334,"body":"It's not t big, not necessarily anissue, uh, but something you have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1306.334,"endTime":1310.214,"body":"to think about because you have thetransfer from gas phase to liquid"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1310.214,"endTime":1313.334,"body":"phase, and then from liquid phase to thesolid and you have a porous material."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1313.354,"endTime":1317.934,"body":"So you might also have, um, internalmass limitations and especially"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1318.144,"endTime":1321.574,"body":"since this reaction is relativelyfast, so it runs at room temperature."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1322.074,"endTime":1326.294,"body":"Um, you really have to take carethat your particle, the catalyst"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1326.494,"endTime":1330.014,"body":"particles are small enough that thediffusion length are relatively small."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1330.434,"endTime":1334.574,"body":"And that you check, check that carefullyto really measuring the kinetics and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1334.574,"endTime":1336.334,"body":"that you're not only measuring the mass"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1336.654,"endTime":1336.814,"body":"transfer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1336.814,"endTime":1339.654,"body":"There's also, I'm prettysure, pretty many, many papers"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1339.724,"endTime":1341.294,"body":"that just report a physical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1341.334,"endTime":1341.624,"body":"Kevin: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1342.824,"endTime":1343.264,"body":"definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1343.284,"endTime":1345.654,"body":"Janek: Nothing wrong with physicalphenomena, but if you wanna"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1345.654,"endTime":1346.654,"body":"do kinetics on that, then you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1346.889,"endTime":1348.419,"body":"Kevin: yeah, yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1348.519,"endTime":1353.499,"body":"You always have to keep that in mindwhen designing the experiment that you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1353.779,"endTime":1357.219,"body":"actually get the question answered,you asked, and not something completely"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1357.219,"endTime":1359.739,"body":"different, which might look like you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1359.889,"endTime":1360.499,"body":"Your answer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1361.473,"endTime":1362.119,"body":"Janek: Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1362.619,"endTime":1363.439,"body":"Um, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1363.439,"endTime":1367.719,"body":"And then essentially we have the,the liquid constantly saturated at"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1367.799,"endTime":1371.919,"body":"a certain, uh, hydrogen, partialpressure at ambient conditions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1372.459,"endTime":1374.359,"body":"And then we take samples over time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1374.359,"endTime":1377.109,"body":"We analyze them with ion chromatography."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1377.369,"endTime":1382.214,"body":"So that is a technique that, allows usto detect nitrate, nitrite and ammonia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1382.634,"endTime":1387.174,"body":"And there is also one, one big issue inthis reaction or in the entire research"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1387.184,"endTime":1392.984,"body":"field that many people are actually,all people except one single paper,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1393.484,"endTime":1394.954,"body":"don't physically close the mass balance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1395.334,"endTime":1399.154,"body":"So we convert nitrates and nitratesand we detect then the nitrates"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1399.154,"endTime":1400.154,"body":"and ni treats and the ammonia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1401.109,"endTime":1405.969,"body":"We don't detect the nitrogen and thathas a couple of quite good reasons 'cause"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1405.969,"endTime":1407.609,"body":"it's, it's super challenging to do so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1407.909,"endTime":1412.889,"body":"We have as you just here, we have a liquidphase and a gas phase and one, if you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1412.889,"endTime":1415.729,"body":"wanna sample the gas phase and the liquidphase, there will always be a delay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1416.039,"endTime":1420.529,"body":"Even if you can make your entiresystem super and inert and suppress"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1420.909,"endTime":1425.049,"body":"all nitrogen contamination from theoutside, which is also a huge challenge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1425.429,"endTime":1427.449,"body":"You would still have adelay between the gas phase."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1428.224,"endTime":1432.309,"body":"And the liquid phase and to then matchthese data points, is super difficult."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1432.369,"endTime":1436.629,"body":"So to achieve a close massbalance is close to impossible."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1436.629,"endTime":1438.699,"body":"There's, there's one paper published."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1438.729,"endTime":1441.019,"body":"They did that, but theyalso used isotope labels."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1441.769,"endTime":1442.189,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1442.409,"endTime":1443.519,"body":"Janek: Nitro nitrogen species."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1444.259,"endTime":1448.159,"body":"Um, so you can think of a, a research onits own just to close the mass balance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1448.719,"endTime":1452.979,"body":"So at some point, the entire scientificcommunity in that field agreed"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1453.009,"endTime":1456.819,"body":"that the only products or the onlysignificant products are ammonia"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1456.999,"endTime":1460.779,"body":"and nitrogen, and we can just makethe, the balance based on nitrate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1460.939,"endTime":1463.179,"body":"Nitrate and, and ammonia and assume the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1463.179,"endTime":1463.819,"body":"remaining part."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1464.551,"endTime":1468.001,"body":"Kevin: yeah, just assume that everythingthat you not detect is nitrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1468.449,"endTime":1468.939,"body":"Janek: exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1469.484,"endTime":1474.694,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, so I would also imaginethat when you want to analyze the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1474.894,"endTime":1480.454,"body":"nitrogen, some of it would also be stilldissolved and not completely bubble out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1480.554,"endTime":1482.054,"body":"And then, yeah, that's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1482.364,"endTime":1483.254,"body":"very complicated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1483.664,"endTime":1484.334,"body":"Janek: definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1484.514,"endTime":1488.964,"body":"The, um, the dissolution ebra will alsomake your life very, very difficult."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1489.624,"endTime":1494.404,"body":"So, as I said, it's quite good reasonsthat you accept that just because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1494.504,"endTime":1498.244,"body":"you, you cannot really do better orit's almost impossible to do better."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1498.374,"endTime":1498.664,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1499.444,"endTime":1502.671,"body":"And then, how did youlook at this problem?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1503.391,"endTime":1510.591,"body":"I mean, when you say that no one reallydid it, but sounds like you did try to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1510.721,"endTime":1511.631,"body":"close the mass balance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1512.391,"endTime":1515.977,"body":"Janek: Well, we, we actually didn't,didn't try, but we observed something"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1516.087,"endTime":1519.817,"body":"very, very odd 'cause we were runninga reaction and we were running then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1520.697,"endTime":1521.917,"body":"Beyond full conversion."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1521.917,"endTime":1527.062,"body":"So, um, at some point we saw, okay, allthe nitrates and nitrates are converted."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1527.642,"endTime":1532.502,"body":"Um, we formed some ammonia as we wouldexpect, but when we had a closer look, we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1532.502,"endTime":1536.662,"body":"saw that there is still ammonia formationafter full nitrate and nitrate conversion."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1536.832,"endTime":1537.252,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1538.307,"endTime":1540.327,"body":"Janek: And that can ofcourse not be the case."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1540.887,"endTime":1543.767,"body":"'cause there are, it cannotcome from, from nowhere."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1543.947,"endTime":1546.647,"body":"And then we were first doingsome calculations, okay, how much"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1546.657,"endTime":1548.487,"body":"accessible metal area do we have?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1548.507,"endTime":1552.287,"body":"Is there maybe still somenitrogen species that, uh, sit"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1552.287,"endTime":1553.287,"body":"and chill on the metal forever?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1553.987,"endTime":1555.527,"body":"But we could very quickly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1556.542,"endTime":1558.147,"body":"Find out that that cannot be it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1558.147,"endTime":1562.387,"body":"So there must be some kind of nitrogenreservoir in the reaction system"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1562.897,"endTime":1565.667,"body":"that is slowly converted to ammonia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1567.287,"endTime":1570.187,"body":"And then we sat together and thenthought, okay, what could that be?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1570.187,"endTime":1575.027,"body":"Developed a couple of, um, trappingstrategies and in the end we found"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1575.027,"endTime":1578.507,"body":"out that there is hydroxyl amine,uh, as reaction to immediate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1578.847,"endTime":1583.147,"body":"And depending on the conditions and thecatalyst, that can already be quite a bit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1583.167,"endTime":1584.267,"body":"So, uh, 10%."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1585.117,"endTime":1587.607,"body":"Selectivity is not a surprise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1587.627,"endTime":1592.047,"body":"And some catalysts we even foundup to 50%, uh, intermediary yield."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1592.147,"endTime":1596.767,"body":"So it's actually a substantial,substantial amount that, uh, is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1597.712,"endTime":1601.052,"body":"Kevin: Uh, that's basicallythe partial hydrogenation"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1601.052,"endTime":1603.812,"body":"product of this reaction, or how"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1603.817,"endTime":1604.107,"body":"Janek: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1604.217,"endTime":1604.707,"body":"exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1606.697,"endTime":1607.957,"body":"Um, how does it happen?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1607.957,"endTime":1610.117,"body":"That's, of course, it's avery, very good question."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1610.177,"endTime":1612.437,"body":"We are currently investigatingthat a bit deeper."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1612.817,"endTime":1616.637,"body":"So recently published one, uh,paper that is more focused on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1616.637,"endTime":1618.077,"body":"the phenomenological approach."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1618.217,"endTime":1623.807,"body":"So, um, a bit of a. A shout out to, toeveryone working in the field that we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1623.977,"endTime":1626.887,"body":"maybe have to have a bit of a closer look."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1627.347,"endTime":1630.087,"body":"So we just tested a bunch ofdifferent direction conditions,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1630.127,"endTime":1634.167,"body":"a couple of different catalysts,um, and proved that whatever we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1634.167,"endTime":1635.787,"body":"do, we always see hydroxyl amine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1636.327,"endTime":1640.647,"body":"'cause if you, if you find somethingthat is not being observed for, for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1640.647,"endTime":1645.607,"body":"quite a while as a PhD, uh, in the middleof a research trajectory, you also,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1645.607,"endTime":1647.607,"body":"first, of course, questioning yourself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1647.747,"endTime":1649.727,"body":"But I can, I can say that we really did."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1650.382,"endTime":1653.322,"body":"Our best to prove ourselveswrong, but we couldn't."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1653.322,"endTime":1654.562,"body":"So apparently we are right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1655.142,"endTime":1655.362,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1656.977,"endTime":1662.452,"body":"And we are now trying to, a bit morestructurally, a bit more systematically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1663.092,"endTime":1667.052,"body":"investigate that reaction, uh, withjust one catalyst and with a bunch"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1667.052,"endTime":1668.132,"body":"of different reaction conditions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1668.132,"endTime":1672.572,"body":"And then try to get a bit of an ideahow the reaction mechanism indeed goes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1673.152,"endTime":1676.932,"body":"And what we think is happening isthat, , we have hydroxyl amine,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1677.272,"endTime":1679.372,"body":"so, uh, it's up on the surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1679.752,"endTime":1682.652,"body":"And that's also if you look atthe reaction mechanisms that are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1682.762,"endTime":1687.172,"body":"published, it's sometimes mentioned,but it's never mentioned absorbed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1687.862,"endTime":1692.002,"body":"So if you think about that a bit, uh, moredetailed, you would think of different"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1692.522,"endTime":1696.522,"body":"nitrogen species absorbed on the metalcatalyst, and then you would always have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1696.622,"endTime":1698.362,"body":"in, we call that micro kinetic modeling."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1698.822,"endTime":1699.042,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1700.247,"endTime":1704.977,"body":"Step by step, add an atom or add anelectron, uh, spit of water, for instance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1705.437,"endTime":1711.367,"body":"And then there is species thatlook like NOH something, in their"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1711.367,"endTime":1714.287,"body":"terms, and that can then easilyconvert it to hydroxyl amine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1714.467,"endTime":1717.407,"body":"And apparently it does dissolvefrom the catalyst surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1717.827,"endTime":1722.447,"body":"And that is the thing that, um, was upuntil now and not really considered."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1723.497,"endTime":1729.507,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, that's interesting becausein, I don't know exactly how it works"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1729.687,"endTime":1736.887,"body":"for the heterogeneous, uh, catalyst,but for the homogeneous catalyst, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1736.887,"endTime":1742.857,"body":"could do a lot of like NMR IR and,uh, different kinds of, analysis to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1743.517,"endTime":1749.217,"body":"figure out how exactly the reactionworks and what intermediates you have."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1749.317,"endTime":1753.497,"body":"You can trap some intermediates withvery low temperatures and then get"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1753.537,"endTime":1758.177,"body":"a spectrum of them and know exactlyhow those intermediates look like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1758.357,"endTime":1762.217,"body":"But how would you do that forthe heterogeneous catalyst?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1764.592,"endTime":1767.412,"body":"Janek: In heterogeneous catalysis, orin general in that reaction systems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1767.602,"endTime":1770.212,"body":"It's, uh, quite challengingto do characterization."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1770.682,"endTime":1774.052,"body":"What we actually did in thepast and with we, I now mean"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1774.052,"endTime":1775.332,"body":"our research group in the past."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1775.922,"endTime":1777.902,"body":"It's A-T-R-I-R spectroscopy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1778.002,"endTime":1782.622,"body":"So that is an, uh, infrared spectroscopytechnique where you code your catalyst"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1783.122,"endTime":1786.022,"body":"on the rod or on a, on a crystal."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1786.802,"endTime":1790.182,"body":"And through this crystal,the IR Beam ascent."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1791.387,"endTime":1795.327,"body":"And, um, you can think about itlike in, in a glass fiber cable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1795.907,"endTime":1801.094,"body":"The IR beam bounces out of this crystalfor a tiny little bit, let's say a couple"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1801.094,"endTime":1806.082,"body":"of micro nanometers, that can then probethe molecules absorbed on the surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1806.262,"endTime":1810.132,"body":"It, of course, also probes the, theliquid bulk, but also the molecules,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1810.552,"endTime":1812.212,"body":"uh, absorbed on the surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1813.147,"endTime":1817.952,"body":"However, IR you probably also know thatyou can get an idea of the structures,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1818.372,"endTime":1822.472,"body":"but it's very difficult to distinguishbetween, um, the exact molecule."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1822.492,"endTime":1827.032,"body":"So if you think, then think aboutdifferent NOH species you cannot really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1827.032,"endTime":1829.312,"body":"tell is there now one h, is there two Hs?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1829.332,"endTime":1832.152,"body":"Is uh, how does that exactly look like?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1832.452,"endTime":1836.472,"body":"At the same time, you must realizethat the spectra is incredibly noisy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1836.652,"endTime":1842.032,"body":"You have the liquid backgroundyou have very low catalysts, like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1842.032,"endTime":1843.232,"body":"metal loading on the catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1843.232,"endTime":1845.632,"body":"Typically the concentrationsare typically very low."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1846.052,"endTime":1853.642,"body":"So in the past it was proven that thereis some NHO or NOH species, but to really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1853.672,"endTime":1856.259,"body":"nail down what's species, really possible."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1856.319,"endTime":1858.619,"body":"But that's also part ofmy, my research right now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1858.999,"endTime":1863.149,"body":"Based on this finding, I revisited,uh, a couple of applications."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1864.024,"endTime":1865.104,"body":"And, critically questions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1865.894,"endTime":1866.184,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1866.404,"endTime":1867.974,"body":", Have we overseen something there?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1868.454,"endTime":1873.535,"body":"'cause for instance, in, in one of thepapers, we also reported, N species."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1873.635,"endTime":1878.855,"body":"So just, uh, ni one nitrogen atomabsorbed on the surface and that you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1878.855,"endTime":1883.068,"body":"would never see in ir because thatis a species that is not IR active."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1884.358,"endTime":1887.518,"body":"don't have a diaper moment, soyou cannot, uh, detect that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1888.098,"endTime":1891.418,"body":"Back in the days, they were also,observed that ammonia was formed"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1891.418,"endTime":1895.098,"body":"after full conversion, but theamounts were just much lower."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1895.238,"endTime":1899.258,"body":"And then they could close the, the massbalance, let's say, or the they could"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1899.258,"endTime":1905.898,"body":"assign the, or could correlate the ammoniaamount produced to nitrogen species"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1906.678,"endTime":1907.218,"body":"on the surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1908.063,"endTime":1912.233,"body":"Yeah, on the, so they were assuming,okay, probably there is some spectator"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1912.883,"endTime":1917.193,"body":"atoms that if you just wait longenough go from the spectator roll,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1917.813,"endTime":1919.473,"body":"uh, and are converted to ammonia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1920.088,"endTime":1920.378,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1920.693,"endTime":1922.353,"body":"Janek: And that made totalsense back in the days."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1922.413,"endTime":1926.713,"body":"But if I look at that from a perspectiveright now, it might also very well"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1926.713,"endTime":1930.103,"body":"be that there was some hydroxylamine in the reaction mixture."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1930.443,"endTime":1933.613,"body":"Kevin: What did you differentto observe this hydroxy?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1933.633,"endTime":1936.853,"body":"Am I now compared tothose older measurements?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1938.533,"endTime":1943.663,"body":"Janek: Yeah, so what we do todetect the hydroxyl amine is we, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1944.113,"endTime":1946.823,"body":"derivatize the Al Lamine into an oxide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1947.323,"endTime":1951.293,"body":"So when you think of the semibatch reactor, we take samples"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1951.313,"endTime":1956.293,"body":"of a time and these samples, weimmediately after the sampling add"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1956.613,"endTime":1958.853,"body":"a tiny droplet of benzaldehyde."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1959.863,"endTime":1963.533,"body":"These benzaldehyde is then,uh, doing oximation reactions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1963.683,"endTime":1967.773,"body":"It's thermodynamically way downhill,so it's happens naturally, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1967.773,"endTime":1970.893,"body":"within, yeah, the concentrationsare used less than half an hour."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1971.513,"endTime":1974.533,"body":"And then I have an oxime that isrelatively stable and that we can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1974.833,"endTime":1980.453,"body":"detect with HPLC due to the UV visabsorption of the benzaldehyde."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1980.473,"endTime":1983.773,"body":"So the benzaldehyde oxime isthen also UV vis active, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1983.773,"endTime":1986.093,"body":"we can easily that with HPLC."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1986.163,"endTime":1986.453,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1986.733,"endTime":1986.973,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1987.393,"endTime":1992.893,"body":"And the other way around is alsothat hydroxy amine is used to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1992.993,"endTime":1996.213,"body":"detect some aldehydes, and you then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1997.103,"endTime":1999.403,"body":"Use the oximes to quantify them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2000.073,"endTime":2002.243,"body":"It's also use the other way around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2003.853,"endTime":2004.143,"body":"Janek: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2004.143,"endTime":2005.183,"body":"That is, uh, I was not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2005.293,"endTime":2011.473,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, in some, um, because thealdehydes are much more volatile than"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2011.473,"endTime":2017.143,"body":"the oximes, um, you can basically trapthem also as the oxime and then use"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2017.443,"endTime":2020.543,"body":"liquid chromatography to detect them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2022.098,"endTime":2027.228,"body":"Because it is a really fast reactionand it's almost always quantitative."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2027.427,"endTime":2029.047,"body":"You use it the other way around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2030.277,"endTime":2032.977,"body":"Janek: essence it's the same"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2034.007,"endTime":2034.297,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2034.337,"endTime":2035.057,"body":"Janek: Thinking, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2035.057,"endTime":2038.547,"body":"Like we, we were suspecting something,but we, we couldn't really detect that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2039.042,"endTime":2039.982,"body":"So we were, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2040.697,"endTime":2044.582,"body":"Trying to find some vehiclethat converts the alman into"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2044.582,"endTime":2045.582,"body":"something that we can detect."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2046.362,"endTime":2050.622,"body":"And then we could relatively quicklyestablish the characterization technique."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2050.922,"endTime":2054.702,"body":"And I was actually at a conferencenot too long ago at the North America"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2054.942,"endTime":2059.022,"body":"Catalyst meeting in Atlanta and waspresenting, uh, this work as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2059.482,"endTime":2062.162,"body":"And there were already a couple ofpeople actually working on hydroxyl"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2062.162,"endTime":2065.842,"body":"amine and they were complaining on,on how difficult it is to properly"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2065.862,"endTime":2067.672,"body":"detect and quantify hydroxyl amine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2068.412,"endTime":2072.462,"body":"Um, so we are now also in contact andthen see, whether they can also apply"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2072.462,"endTime":2073.942,"body":"this strategy for their own research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2074.577,"endTime":2074.817,"body":"Kevin: interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2074.837,"endTime":2079.257,"body":"So you could already, withyour research, help others to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2080.007,"endTime":2082.337,"body":"improve on their uh, analysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2082.437,"endTime":2086.937,"body":"And then hopefully there will benew discoveries in this field, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2086.937,"endTime":2091.657,"body":"will basically drive this reactiontowards the usable applications."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2093.932,"endTime":2094.662,"body":"Janek: Yeah, let's see."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2094.722,"endTime":2098.022,"body":"At least I could, uh, give someinspiration for, for new approaches"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2098.022,"endTime":2101.062,"body":"for them as well, whether sendingthe word in the end works out,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2101.494,"endTime":2102.873,"body":"that's on the, on a different page."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2103.413,"endTime":2108.593,"body":"Um, I recall someone from, uh, theUS and they want to work in gas"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2108.593,"endTime":2112.633,"body":"phase, and then it's probably a bitdifferent, but at least he has never"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2112.633,"endTime":2116.073,"body":"thought about that way, and he wasinspired by that and he also wanted to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2116.108,"endTime":2116.528,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2118.778,"endTime":2119.068,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2119.308,"endTime":2119.508,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2119.833,"endTime":2121.993,"body":"Janek: apparently that is, thatis something that might also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2121.993,"endTime":2123.673,"body":"help other people from the field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2123.713,"endTime":2128.783,"body":"Kevin: Especially when it was overlookedby everyone for quite a while, that might"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2130.463,"endTime":2133.713,"body":"also, previous researchers might, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2133.713,"endTime":2140.713,"body":"Then revisit their questions and lookif they might have missed something and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2140.713,"endTime":2144.403,"body":"then could improve the whole reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2146.933,"endTime":2150.233,"body":"Janek: It is definitely when I was,uh, explaining that the first time"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2150.233,"endTime":2154.822,"body":"at the conference, let's say I, Iwas, uh, a bit more excited than,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2155.332,"endTime":2158.502,"body":"than on a normal talk because younever know how, how the feedback is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2158.922,"endTime":2160.702,"body":"Uh, 'cause that's, it's something, it's."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2161.347,"endTime":2165.573,"body":"That has some more potential,  forcriticism or for, uh, very critical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2165.813,"endTime":2167.657,"body":"questions, if you have your, your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2167.852,"endTime":2168.142,"body":"Kevin: yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2168.142,"endTime":2168.297,"body":"Janek: talk."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2169.002,"endTime":2169.742,"body":"Kevin: But those help"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2170.332,"endTime":2174.702,"body":"because, uh, when you have criticalquestions, there's might be"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2174.702,"endTime":2175.782,"body":"something you have missed and then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2176.782,"endTime":2178.352,"body":"Yeah, you would also profit from that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2180.002,"endTime":2183.022,"body":"Janek: Uh, but as far as I know,luckily there was only, uh, positive"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2183.022,"endTime":2187.986,"body":"words and, let's say agreement thatwe might made our life a bit too easy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2188.542,"endTime":2189.202,"body":"Kevin: In what way?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2189.586,"endTime":2191.646,"body":"Janek: And, um, I'm curiouswhat, what's to come?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2192.226,"endTime":2195.756,"body":"Yeah, that we just assumed that themass balance, that we don't close"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2195.916,"endTime":2199.806,"body":"the mass balance, there was a groomlike, yeah, I mean, you're right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2200.026,"endTime":2201.126,"body":"We never really checked that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2201.906,"endTime":2205.316,"body":"Maybe we should have, and now I'mactually quite curious what, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2205.316,"endTime":2206.916,"body":"let's say in a year or two from now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2206.976,"endTime":2210.756,"body":"It takes always quite a while until,uh, in research if you now published,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2210.756,"endTime":2213.436,"body":"we published the paper, I thinkabout one and a half month ago."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2214.216,"endTime":2216.866,"body":"Um, follow ups on that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2217.006,"endTime":2218.186,"body":"We will probably take a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2218.221,"endTime":2218.441,"body":"Kevin: Hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2218.766,"endTime":2218.986,"body":"Janek: two."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2219.236,"endTime":2219.411,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2220.352,"endTime":2220.597,"body":"Kevin: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2220.702,"endTime":2220.922,"body":"Janek: um"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2220.977,"endTime":2221.397,"body":"Kevin: all these"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2221.588,"endTime":2225.821,"body":"tests have to be done first, andthen you can go into discussion"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2225.871,"endTime":2233.596,"body":"with those people and now with allthese findings and um, then you can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2233.826,"endTime":2237.716,"body":"basically improve this whole catalystand get a more efficient reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2238.096,"endTime":2242.756,"body":"Uh, what would be the applicationsfor this improved process?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2243.94,"endTime":2245.7,"body":"Janek: I'd see that in,in two different ways."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2246.07,"endTime":2251.34,"body":"First of all, the way in which thatreaction is mainly researched about,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2251.34,"endTime":2252.78,"body":"that's drinking water purification."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2253.44,"endTime":2257.06,"body":"And for that field, the hydroxy aminefinding is quite challenging because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2257.06,"endTime":2262.18,"body":"hydroxyl amine is even more toxic thanammonia and harmful for water environment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2262.18,"endTime":2265.42,"body":"So if you look at the safety data sheet,it basically has everything you don't"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2265.42,"endTime":2266.46,"body":"want to have in your drinking water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2267,"endTime":2270.11,"body":"Uh, so with that regard,I'd see, quite a setback."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2270.89,"endTime":2274.91,"body":"If we think of the process we areresearching for the exhaust gas"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2274.94,"endTime":2277.91,"body":"catalysis, um, of, of big ship engines,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2280.48,"endTime":2285.54,"body":"I think that wouldn't be a hugeissue because due to some process"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2285.61,"endTime":2289.5,"body":"integration, um, challenges, we needto have a closed group system there"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2289.5,"endTime":2292.54,"body":"anyway, and what we also showedis that this hydroxyl amine is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2293.29,"endTime":2295.5,"body":"Just an intermediate, soit's not a final product."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2295.57,"endTime":2298.26,"body":"It's further convertedinto ammonia and nitrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2299.354,"endTime":2302.894,"body":"So it's not ideal that we conuh, converted further to ammonia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2303.108,"endTime":2306.665,"body":"but we don't have the hydroxy and if wejust read the reaction run long enough."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2307.405,"endTime":2310.545,"body":"Kevin: So that's just a reactionengineering problem and not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2310.545,"endTime":2313.915,"body":"really a problem of the reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2315.37,"endTime":2320.338,"body":"Janek: regarding hydroxy amine,probably, The intrinsic chemical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2320.338,"endTime":2322.738,"body":"problem is that we still have ammonia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2322.798,"endTime":2327.218,"body":"So if you, if you think back of the,uh, process for the exhausts, if"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2327.218,"endTime":2331.218,"body":"you then have a closed loop and youconstantly for ammonia, then at some"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2331.218,"endTime":2334.338,"body":"point you will have relatively highammonia concentration, in your liquid"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2334.528,"endTime":2336.801,"body":"that you don't wanna, have on a ship."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2336.801,"endTime":2339.201,"body":"Or generally you, you have tohave a bleed at some point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2339.741,"endTime":2343.721,"body":"Um, but that is something thatyou might be able to work around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2344.221,"endTime":2346.281,"body":"But if you think aboutdrinking water purification."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2347.716,"endTime":2351.576,"body":"You will have higher ammoniaconcentrations that you, than"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2351.576,"endTime":2353.056,"body":"you thought initially of."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2353.056,"endTime":2354.936,"body":"And that is the mainproblem right now anyway."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2355.556,"endTime":2360.736,"body":"Um, so there I really see, seechallenges, how how we can make that work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2361.336,"endTime":2363.176,"body":"I think that we wouldalso then need some, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2365.256,"endTime":2371.166,"body":"Some engineering help or some engineeringsolution that you use, the nitrate nitrite"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2371.186,"endTime":2378.146,"body":"reduction reaction to convert the majorityand then do the the last tiny bit with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2378.386,"endTime":2382.346,"body":"membrane techniques or reverse osmosisor or other techniques that can really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2383.126,"endTime":2385.666,"body":"do the last tiny bit of the cleanup."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2385.996,"endTime":2389.446,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, I think that's, uh,also a concentration problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2389.746,"endTime":2392.956,"body":"But, when you think oflike a chemical plant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2394.029,"endTime":2401.329,"body":"If you think of the waste waterof, a chemical park and you have."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2402.319,"endTime":2408.249,"body":"Some chemical plant that have a lot ofnitrates or nitrites in their wastewater."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2410.604,"endTime":2410.894,"body":"Janek: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2410.894,"endTime":2411.094,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2411.094,"endTime":2414.054,"body":"Then you, you could certainlythink of using, uh, catalytic"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2414.254,"endTime":2418.774,"body":"hydrogenation of these compounds to,to form some, uh, nitrogen or to, to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2419.354,"endTime":2421.024,"body":"remove these nitrates and nitrites."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2421.354,"endTime":2421.574,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2422.754,"endTime":2425.124,"body":"Then that is a similar casethan on the cargo ships."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2425.144,"endTime":2429.044,"body":"You probably won't use that water asdrinking water anyway, but you can re"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2429.104,"endTime":2431.284,"body":"reduce the waste load substantially."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2431.784,"endTime":2435.711,"body":"So even if you cannot reach the goalsfor the ammonia limits for drinking"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2435.711,"endTime":2441.831,"body":"water, you can still remove, um, thepredominant chair of contaminations and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2441.831,"endTime":2443.911,"body":"therefore are way better than, than just."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2444.746,"endTime":2446.391,"body":"Having the highly concentrated brines."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2446.751,"endTime":2449.784,"body":"'cause let's say, let's face it, ifyou do for instance, reverse osmosis"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2449.784,"endTime":2452.624,"body":"for water through purification, youstill end up with a waste brine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2452.804,"endTime":2455.424,"body":"So in that sense, you dohave achieved your goal."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2455.444,"endTime":2458.184,"body":"You do have clean drinkingwater, but on the other hand, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2458.184,"endTime":2459.464,"body":"have a other problem naming the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2459.464,"endTime":2459.864,"body":"waste brine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2459.954,"endTime":2460.174,"body":"Kevin: Mm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2460.324,"endTime":2460.944,"body":"Janek: And that's also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2460.944,"endTime":2461.264,"body":"something,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2461.554,"endTime":2465.864,"body":"Kevin: Could you feed that back intoyour reaction and then basically just"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2465.864,"endTime":2469.104,"body":"have this concentrated brine again from"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2469.124,"endTime":2474.112,"body":"the revers osmosis, and thenconvert everything to nitrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2475.372,"endTime":2476.072,"body":"Janek: Um, yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2476.072,"endTime":2479.232,"body":"That's actually the idea also forthe process on the ship we have."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2479.332,"endTime":2483.832,"body":"So we, uh, try, I mean, we,we will do the pilot testing,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2484.492,"endTime":2485.412,"body":"actually the end of this year."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2486.072,"endTime":2490.052,"body":"But what we are thinking of isthat we convert as much in our"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2490.052,"endTime":2492.052,"body":"catalytic reactor as we scrub."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2493.592,"endTime":2494.522,"body":"From the exhaust gas."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2494.622,"endTime":2496.162,"body":"So you have a steady state operation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2496.162,"endTime":2499.602,"body":"Let's say you have a relatively enrichednitrate and nitrite concentration."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2500.192,"endTime":2504.122,"body":"Um, but whatever you add inthe scrub process, you convert"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2504.142,"endTime":2505.282,"body":"in the catalytic reactor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2505.512,"endTime":2506.482,"body":"That also helps you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2506.662,"endTime":2510.442,"body":"If we go back to the fundamentals,um, having a high nitrogen selectivity"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2510.442,"endTime":2513.042,"body":"requires high nitrogen to hydrogen ratios."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2514.142,"endTime":2517.402,"body":"So if you have higher concentration,the likelihood to form nitrogen"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2517.592,"endTime":2518.922,"body":"instead of ammonia is higher."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2519.422,"endTime":2521.682,"body":"So we can use someprocess engineering there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2522.387,"endTime":2526.247,"body":"To hopefully maximize the nitrogen yield."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2526.427,"endTime":2530.727,"body":"And since we, we don't need to drinkthat water, um, we can just operate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2531.067,"endTime":2537.59,"body":"at a, a steady state between these twoprocesses to keep the, yeah, the nitrogen"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2537.59,"endTime":2542.11,"body":"content high enough to prevent ammoniaformation and we don't have to go to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2542.11,"endTime":2542.27,"body":"full"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2542.27,"endTime":2542.75,"body":"conversions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2543.835,"endTime":2550.055,"body":"Kevin: So at least dropping the, uh,amount of pollution by the highest"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2550.115,"endTime":2555.835,"body":"amount possible, and then, okay, it'snot drinking water quality, but it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2555.835,"endTime":2557.435,"body":"still reduces a lot of the emissions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2559.01,"endTime":2559.5,"body":"Janek: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2559.56,"endTime":2562.47,"body":"So then the goal in thatsense would be waste reduction"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2562.97,"endTime":2564.19,"body":"and not drinking water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2564.49,"endTime":2565.11,"body":"Um, supply."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2565.225,"endTime":2566.635,"body":"Kevin: yeah, yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2566.735,"endTime":2571.555,"body":"But that's also then just a differentquestion you have and you want"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2571.555,"endTime":2573.675,"body":"to go in that direction and then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2575.375,"endTime":2580.595,"body":"It might fit and for other processesthere are already for drinking water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2580.775,"endTime":2585.465,"body":"We have the biological processes,which are really good in also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2585.665,"endTime":2590.495,"body":"removing those nitrogen compoundsfor drinking water treatment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2592.265,"endTime":2592.795,"body":"Janek: Yeah, indeed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2592.795,"endTime":2593.155,"body":"In general."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2593.335,"endTime":2593.555,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2594.4,"endTime":2595.58,"body":"For, for drinking water treatment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2595.58,"endTime":2598.42,"body":"There is differentprocesses that also work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2598.61,"endTime":2601.42,"body":"They sometimes have, if forinstance, think about reverse"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2601.45,"endTime":2604.9,"body":"osmosis, you need a lot of pumpsand have quite high energy demand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2605.16,"endTime":2608.62,"body":"If you think about, uh, micro biologicaltreatment, you always need some carbon"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2608.68,"endTime":2612.02,"body":"and sometimes the drinking waters are, orthe water's already too clean for that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2612.275,"endTime":2612.495,"body":"Kevin: Hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2612.95,"endTime":2614.22,"body":"Janek: Um, we had,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2614.285,"endTime":2614.575,"body":"Kevin: that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2614.93,"endTime":2615.78,"body":"Janek: yeah, a lot of space."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2616.81,"endTime":2617.23,"body":"Indeed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2617.77,"endTime":2620.39,"body":"Um, where space is also,uh, a challenge for us."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2620.46,"endTime":2624.63,"body":"It's also one of the, the major challengesthat the liquid volumes we need to treat"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2625.25,"endTime":2629.79,"body":"are huge, but chips are also huge, solet's see whether we can make that work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2629.79,"endTime":2633.572,"body":"But the process integration is,uh, the main challenges we have and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2633.572,"endTime":2635.702,"body":"the main things we, think about."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2635.842,"endTime":2636.902,"body":"But, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2637.622,"endTime":2641.547,"body":"Let's say the scrubbing was also earlier,not really optimized because if you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2641.547,"endTime":2645.027,"body":"just dump everything into the sea, thenvolume is not really a critical point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2645.087,"endTime":2647.667,"body":"So you, you just put more and more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2648.207,"endTime":2652.107,"body":"But now that we think about it, there wasalso some advancements by, by TNO, by our"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2652.347,"endTime":2656.267,"body":"collaborators, uh, that they could reducethe liquid volumes quite substantially."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2657.087,"endTime":2660.947,"body":"So let's see where we end up, whetherthat is, uh, competitive to the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2661.847,"endTime":2664.977,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, but that's, uh, wherethe improved catalyst comes into"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2664.977,"endTime":2666.257,"body":"play with the better catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2666.307,"endTime":2670.704,"body":"and With the higher timespace here, you need a smaller"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2670.704,"endTime":2673.254,"body":"rector for the same conversion."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2673.465,"endTime":2674.235,"body":"Janek: Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2674.295,"endTime":2677.775,"body":"So in our consortium there is alsoship constructors and ship owners."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2677.995,"endTime":2680.851,"body":"So it's actually from a,personal development perspective,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2680.851,"endTime":2682.011,"body":"super interesting on, on how."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2682.936,"endTime":2683.916,"body":"All these things work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2683.976,"endTime":2686.876,"body":"So that's things you, in yourchemistry study you probably have,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2686.876,"endTime":2690.504,"body":"have never thought about, but then,all of a sudden you, you also have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2690.504,"endTime":2693.904,"body":"to think about, okay, maybe hydrogenstorage on a ship is not so easy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2694.324,"endTime":2696.104,"body":"So, uh, is that somethingthat we can solve?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2696.164,"endTime":2698.904,"body":"And then we can think before theother people, okay, we might be able"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2698.904,"endTime":2704.284,"body":"to, put a small electrolyzer on yourship to make the hydrogen on site."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2704.804,"endTime":2708.989,"body":"Um, and then you all of a suddenend up Googling is there container"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2708.989,"endTime":2711.749,"body":"sites electrolyzers that cansupply sufficient hydrogen?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2711.769,"endTime":2714.589,"body":"And, and that's probably things ifyou asked me at the very beginning, I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2714.589,"endTime":2715.989,"body":"would never have thought about that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2715.989,"endTime":2719.789,"body":"That is then also part of my job, ofcourse, also only small, small part."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2719.789,"endTime":2722.349,"body":"And the main part is still the, thecatalyst development, the catalyst"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2722.509,"endTime":2723.549,"body":"testing and characterization."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2724.009,"endTime":2728.749,"body":"Um, but it's quite interesting to, tohave an horizon where things potentially"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2728.749,"endTime":2730.469,"body":"can end up, if everything went"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2730.469,"endTime":2730.709,"body":"well,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2730.909,"endTime":2735.474,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely that, that's whyI also like this applied chemistry a lot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2736.024,"endTime":2738.194,"body":"It's very interdisciplinary."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2738.414,"endTime":2743.074,"body":"You have to work with engineers,you have to work with, uh, also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2743.074,"endTime":2749.274,"body":"different parts of engineering, andin the end go towards a product that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2749.274,"endTime":2751.274,"body":"works and people actually can use."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2751.454,"endTime":2751.954,"body":"And also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2752.774,"endTime":2757.994,"body":"Can use economically that you alsohave to then take also this whole"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2758.394,"endTime":2761.074,"body":"economic side into, into mind."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2761.144,"endTime":2765.274,"body":"It's really interesting to havethese really complicated problems"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2765.274,"endTime":2768.754,"body":"then that you can solve with alldifferent disciplines together."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2770.219,"endTime":2773.549,"body":"Janek: Yeah, I'd say for the,the technical economical analysis"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2773.549,"endTime":2774.589,"body":"that's maybe a bit too early."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2774.729,"endTime":2779.869,"body":"So let's say the project we,we have, um, aims for TRL four."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2779.969,"endTime":2781.958,"body":"So technology readiness level four."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2781.958,"endTime":2784.118,"body":"That means that we wannademonstrate in a lab."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2785.003,"endTime":2788.933,"body":"That this technology has potential,um, whether it's then competitive"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2788.933,"endTime":2794.293,"body":"to the things we have on economicbasis, that's then probably a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2794.293,"endTime":2795.853,"body":"couple of more PhDs on its own."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2797.063,"endTime":2802.763,"body":"Uh, but, but still, um, we have someidea of, of how that process or how"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2802.763,"endTime":2807.723,"body":"we can, uh, transfer our fundamentalresearch into something that might be"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2808.273,"endTime":2810.683,"body":"able to be used in the very long run."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2811.843,"endTime":2814.043,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, very interesting research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2814.183,"endTime":2819.643,"body":"And now, um to the last questionfor today's episode, what is your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2820.363,"endTime":2822.083,"body":"favorite discovery in chemistry?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2823.828,"endTime":2826.408,"body":"Janek: That's actually aquite a difficult question."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2826.488,"endTime":2830.608,"body":"I, I have never really thoughtabout the, uh, main discovery."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2831.408,"endTime":2834.608,"body":"I mean, I'm working in nitrogen chemistry,so probably Haber-Bosch is, is the,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2835.538,"endTime":2835.888,"body":"quite."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2836.828,"endTime":2837.818,"body":"Quite obvious call."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2837.918,"endTime":2841.378,"body":"And, of course it, it causes someproblems with the unification"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2841.378,"endTime":2843.098,"body":"in the imbalance nitrogen cycle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2843.398,"endTime":2846.658,"body":"But on the other hand, weprobably not be able to, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2846.728,"endTime":2848.658,"body":"feed the entire global population"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2848.658,"endTime":2849.178,"body":"without it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2849.233,"endTime":2849.883,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2850.578,"endTime":2851.183,"body":"That's actually"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2851.388,"endTime":2851.608,"body":"Janek: let,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2851.608,"endTime":2854.343,"body":"Kevin: my favorite discovery,the Harvard Bosch process."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2855.163,"endTime":2860.223,"body":"And uh, yeah, it basically feeds almosthalf of the world's population without"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2860.323,"endTime":2865.383,"body":"all these, uh, synthetic fertilizers whoare not possible to feed all these people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2865.483,"endTime":2869.743,"body":"And so that's really crucialfor humanity, I think."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2870.266,"endTime":2871.676,"body":"Janek: yeah, absolutely agree on that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2872.416,"endTime":2872.706,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2872.856,"endTime":2876.056,"body":"Then yeah, thank you very much for this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2877.021,"endTime":2878.631,"body":"Nice insights into your research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2879.088,"endTime":2880.028,"body":"Janek: Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2880.314,"endTime":2883.314,"body":"Kevin: Also, thank youvery much for listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2884.004,"endTime":2888.408,"body":"If you like this episode,then please leave a review"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2888.498,"endTime":2890.208,"body":"on wherever you're listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2890.268,"endTime":2896.207,"body":"Also, click the follow button that reallyhelps the show to grow, and if you want"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2896.207,"endTime":2899.117,"body":"to be part of a future episode, reach out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2899.537,"endTime":2905.217,"body":"Either find me on LinkedIn or send anemail to contact@innovateandreact.com."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2906.237,"endTime":2910.287,"body":"And until next time, keepinnovating and stay curious."}]}