{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":null,"startTime":7.02,"endTime":11.86,"body":"Welcome to innovate and react inthis episode, we will be talking"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":11.86,"endTime":17.05,"body":"about the intersection betweenmaterial science and medicine, a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":17.05,"endTime":22.24,"body":"great application of chemistry, whichis a modern way of accelerating the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":22.24,"endTime":24.83,"body":"healing process of bone fractures."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":25.469,"endTime":28.809,"body":"Today I'm with Benedikt Kusel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":28.86,"endTime":30.58,"body":"Please tell us a bit about yourself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":31.328,"endTime":31.848,"body":"Bene: Hi, Kevin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":31.868,"endTime":33.318,"body":"Thank you for the invitation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":34.038,"endTime":40.258,"body":"Um, yeah, I have worked for four yearsin the research group of Professor Epple"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":40.778,"endTime":43.968,"body":"at the University of Duisburg Essen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":44.108,"endTime":49.868,"body":"And in those four years, I did myresearch on calcium phosphate and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":49.898,"endTime":51.708,"body":"ultra small gold nanoparticles."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":52.548,"endTime":57.718,"body":"And today we are here to give youa little insight into the, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":57.758,"endTime":59.258,"body":"calcium phosphate part of my thesis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":60.078,"endTime":60.798,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":61.308,"endTime":63.168,"body":"I'm excited that you are here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":63.178,"endTime":68.908,"body":"And, , now we're looking a bit more intobone  adhesives, and then we will see"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":68.908,"endTime":71.818,"body":"how this will connect to your research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":72.358,"endTime":77.648,"body":"So what are bone adhesives and,and what are they used for?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":77.648,"endTime":83.088,"body":"Bene: So bone adhesives is likethe mystical component that the,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":83.148,"endTime":85.448,"body":"medicine is missing at the moment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":85.843,"endTime":91.593,"body":"Because currently the most establishedmethods to heal bone fractures"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":91.783,"endTime":96.973,"body":"is with pins, plates, and screwsand other kinds of implants that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":97.243,"endTime":100.913,"body":"the surgeons are currently using."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":101.433,"endTime":106.738,"body":"But This is connected to veryhigh cost because there needs"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":106.838,"endTime":109.068,"body":"to be the implant material."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":109.858,"endTime":112.688,"body":"Um, it takes some time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":112.698,"endTime":116.188,"body":"There's a second operationto remove the implants."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":116.948,"endTime":120.418,"body":"And so, yeah, this accumulatesfor very high costs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":120.708,"endTime":125.408,"body":"And our idea was to develop anadhesive to replace these methods."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":126.338,"endTime":132.348,"body":"And to receive a component that caneasily, yeah, like, you know, from"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":132.348,"endTime":138.308,"body":"the everyday use of any glue, but withspecific adhesive properties to bone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":139.288,"endTime":144.188,"body":"Kevin: So basically use these newadhesives to glue the bones together and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":144.188,"endTime":147.528,"body":"then it will heal as nothing happens."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":148.518,"endTime":148.988,"body":"Bene: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":149.298,"endTime":154.108,"body":"And furthermore, it should bebiodegradable so that there is no"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":154.108,"endTime":155.778,"body":"need to remove the implant, but."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":156.243,"endTime":161.223,"body":"In our case, it will besubstituted by your own bone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":161.593,"endTime":162.133,"body":"Kevin: Ah, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":162.173,"endTime":168.713,"body":"So, in the end, nothing of thematerial stays the same and dissolves."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":169.423,"endTime":173.263,"body":"What is happening to these,compounds when they dissolve?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":173.453,"endTime":176.918,"body":"Are they absorbed by the body,or are they just Flushed out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":178.768,"endTime":179.148,"body":"Bene: Maybe both."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":179.768,"endTime":183.201,"body":"Yeah, as you might know,calcium phosphate is the main"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":183.231,"endTime":185.441,"body":"inorganic component of our bone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":185.991,"endTime":191.381,"body":"So our bones are composed of calciumphosphate in the form of hydroxyapatite"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":192.201,"endTime":195.151,"body":"and some collagen as the organic part."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":195.931,"endTime":204.231,"body":"our idea was to use calcium phosphateand to modify it to obtain a similar"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":204.911,"endTime":206.891,"body":"chemical structure as hydroxyapatite."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":207.611,"endTime":212.661,"body":"Of course, since in the body somepart of the calcium or the hydroxy are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":212.661,"endTime":219.926,"body":"substituted by other cations or anions,we are not capable of  reproducing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":221.136,"endTime":225.896,"body":"hydroxyapatite to perfection, but yeah,since, the osteoblasts and osteoclasts"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":225.926,"endTime":233.816,"body":"are the cells that are in charge ofremodeling the bone, um, know this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":233.866,"endTime":242.361,"body":"product, they can attach to the surfaceof the adhesive and can remodel it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":242.441,"endTime":247.391,"body":"Of course this takes some time,but in general, yes, the cells are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":247.831,"endTime":251.391,"body":"capable of degrading the bones."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":251.731,"endTime":255.481,"body":"Uh, they, yeah, of course the boneitself, yes, but also the adhesive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":255.481,"endTime":256.071,"body":"Kevin: Uh, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":256.281,"endTime":263.901,"body":"Bene: And we are probably in the presenceof blood proteins and liquid in general."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":263.952,"endTime":269.292,"body":"The adhesive will be leachingout to some degree probably."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":269.322,"endTime":269.592,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":270.102,"endTime":270.662,"body":"Kevin: Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":271.002,"endTime":274.022,"body":"So these cells, what were the cells again,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":275.692,"endTime":280.342,"body":"Bene: mainly osteoblasts and osteoclasts,they are in charge of remodeling the bone"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":280.352,"endTime":285.512,"body":"because bone is not a rigid structure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":285.512,"endTime":288.362,"body":"Or yeah, it can be seenas a living component."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":288.362,"endTime":294.492,"body":"It's yeah, there's a ongoing remodelingprocess of the bone, um, depending"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":294.552,"endTime":301.712,"body":"on how, strong your bones need to be,depending on how active you are on your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":301.762,"endTime":304.726,"body":"age, on your gender and stuff like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":304.726,"endTime":308.922,"body":"And, and it can adaptto your physical needs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":308.922,"endTime":314.102,"body":"Kevin: And these cells then, when thebone is healing, which is, uh, glued"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":314.102,"endTime":320.422,"body":"together with the bone adhesive, theyknow that this, calcium phosphates"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":320.472,"endTime":325.752,"body":"are useful material and they buildonto this or do they replace it by"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":325.762,"endTime":332.452,"body":"dissolving the particles from theadhesive and then replace it by"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":332.772,"endTime":334.882,"body":"I would say native bone structure"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":334.882,"endTime":339.052,"body":"Bene: Yes, they are, um, capableof degrading, the calcium"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":339.052,"endTime":340.572,"body":"phosphate particles itself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":341.212,"endTime":344.072,"body":"For this, we need the osteoclasts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":344.592,"endTime":346.692,"body":"They digest the calcium."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":347.137,"endTime":348.237,"body":"phosphate, so to say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":348.847,"endTime":353.837,"body":"And then we have the oscilluscells, which,  remodel the bone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":354.207,"endTime":359.517,"body":"So if we look at the interface ofthe adhesive and the bone fracture"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":359.517,"endTime":366.442,"body":"that the cells will invade the glueand of course, first it has to be"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":366.812,"endTime":371.962,"body":"degraded, but simultaneously allother kind of cells that usually"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":372.702,"endTime":378.982,"body":"invade such a fracture, your usual Tcells, B cells and stuff like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":378.982,"endTime":385.612,"body":"And first we receive some kind ofscar tissue which always the first"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":385.782,"endTime":394.412,"body":"thing to be built since the callusworks like a scaffold, um, on which,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":394.462,"endTime":396.742,"body":"scar tissue is produced by the cells."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":397.512,"endTime":403.522,"body":"And by the time passing by, this scartissue is more and more substituted"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":404.192,"endTime":406.962,"body":"by real bone produced by osteoblasts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":407.698,"endTime":413.478,"body":"And simultaneously, The calciumphosphate particles are removed from"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":413.478,"endTime":415.348,"body":"the fracture site by osteoclasts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":416.438,"endTime":419.578,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, it's a pretty impressive,pretty impressive progress."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":420.178,"endTime":428.138,"body":"And how does this compare to, um,conventional type of fixating the bones?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":428.158,"endTime":432.108,"body":"When you mentioned, uh, platesand rods that are usually used"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":432.148,"endTime":433.608,"body":"to fix the bones together."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":434.218,"endTime":436.768,"body":"Uh, how is the healingprocess in these kinds?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":436.768,"endTime":438.438,"body":"Bene: So it's basically the same."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":439.258,"endTime":444.438,"body":"Um, you can differentiate betweenprimary and secondary bone healing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":445.178,"endTime":450.448,"body":"Um, we usually aim for primary bonehealing since the bone fragments,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":450.918,"endTime":452.838,"body":"are in direct contact to one another."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":452.838,"endTime":460.248,"body":"And  when the gap in between thebones is as small as possible, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":460.248,"endTime":463.218,"body":"callus will be as small as it can be."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":464.128,"endTime":467.578,"body":"And the cells are ableto bridge this small gap."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":468.242,"endTime":474.232,"body":"Secondary bone healing, there are There'sa large gap and it takes longer for the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":474.232,"endTime":476.712,"body":"callus to be converted into real bone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":477.182,"endTime":481.812,"body":"And this has an impact on thestability of the bone because there's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":482.382,"endTime":490.452,"body":"more remodeled bone, which is lessstable than the real bone itself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":490.462,"endTime":495.667,"body":"And so it takes a little bit longer untilthe bone has its initial strength again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":495.667,"endTime":501.757,"body":"Kevin: But in the end, it will be asstrong as a non broken bone in this place."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":501.767,"endTime":502.047,"body":"Bene: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":502.097,"endTime":506.737,"body":"In the end, after the healing processhas been completed, there should be no"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":506.737,"endTime":509.567,"body":"difference, which method had been used."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":510.047,"endTime":512.327,"body":"Kevin: Because then the bone,because it gets constantly"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":512.327,"endTime":518.257,"body":"remodeled, it should basically be ahomogeneous structure, more or less."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":519.142,"endTime":524.292,"body":"Or can you, after years, uh,still tell apart where the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":524.312,"endTime":525.582,"body":"bone was broken and where not?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":525.872,"endTime":531.792,"body":"Bene: Um, you can probably tell sincethere might be some deformation from the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":531.792,"endTime":539.242,"body":"callus like, um, a small bubble, on theouter surface of the bone, but from the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":539.242,"endTime":541.472,"body":"stability, there should be no difference."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":541.472,"endTime":541.932,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":542.482,"endTime":544.052,"body":"Yeah, that's, that's very interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":544.232,"endTime":549.462,"body":"I thought always that, um, where bonehas been broken, that there's basically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":549.462,"endTime":555.022,"body":"a permanent,  change to the bone,but the cells basically remodel it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":555.032,"endTime":557.642,"body":"So it's, uh, one structure again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":558.057,"endTime":558.387,"body":"Bene: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":558.437,"endTime":558.717,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":558.747,"endTime":561.267,"body":"And this is what happensall the time in our body."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":562.107,"endTime":566.117,"body":"After every 10 years, um, allthe bone in our bodies have been"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":566.197,"endTime":568.027,"body":"substituted by when you bone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":569.047,"endTime":572.647,"body":"So basically, osteoclasts areworking all the time at different"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":572.647,"endTime":575.217,"body":"speed, uh, on different sides."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":575.737,"endTime":582.607,"body":"As a rule of thumb, you can say that every10 years, you are a whole new scaffold."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":584.507,"endTime":584.867,"body":"Kevin: Great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":585.377,"endTime":588.647,"body":"And that's, uh, I assume alsothe, the reason why astronauts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":589.907,"endTime":596.167,"body":"Have to constantly use their structurebecause, as you said, uh, these,  cells"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":596.257,"endTime":599.327,"body":"adjust the bone to their needs andwhen the bones are not needed due"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":599.327,"endTime":605.197,"body":"to, um, physical pressure, then theybasically degrade because the cells"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":605.197,"endTime":607.837,"body":"say, yeah, we don't need that muchbone in this place right now and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":607.847,"endTime":611.307,"body":"then the bone mass reduces, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":611.907,"endTime":612.607,"body":"Bene: Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":612.807,"endTime":616.857,"body":"In space, you don't need allyour force in the bone and the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":617.307,"endTime":619.307,"body":"bone probably becomes less dense."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":619.337,"endTime":624.257,"body":"And when you go back to earth, thismay lead to fractures if, yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":624.527,"endTime":627.017,"body":"if you spend a long time in space."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":627.167,"endTime":631.977,"body":"Kevin: That's I guess one of the thingsthat are more, more known to this field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":632.487,"endTime":638.217,"body":"When we come back to the, um, boneadhesives, the main disadvantage of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":638.317,"endTime":645.627,"body":"the current, methods to fix bonesis costs, as you said, and, um, they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":645.627,"endTime":651.262,"body":"are also more Procedures, I guess youhave to insert the plates and screws"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":651.292,"endTime":656.342,"body":"into the bone and then after somepoint They are also taken away again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":656.902,"endTime":657.212,"body":"Bene: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":657.212,"endTime":661.122,"body":"Yes, that's correct Um, I onlyhave the numbers for germany."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":661.122,"endTime":669.142,"body":"I don't know how it's on a worldwidescale But in germany, I think in 2013 the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":669.142,"endTime":677.062,"body":"healthcare system paid around 9 billioneuros for the healing of bone fractures."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":677.842,"endTime":686.262,"body":"And of course with an older society, thisnumber will increase and is expected to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":686.262,"endTime":690.482,"body":"hit 14 billion by the end of this decade."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":692.762,"endTime":693.292,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":693.602,"endTime":693.772,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":693.772,"endTime":699.852,"body":"That's, I guess also then when you getolder, you don't use your bones as much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":700.477,"endTime":705.097,"body":"And they become less dense and thenthey're more prone to fracture."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":705.827,"endTime":711.777,"body":"And yeah, that, uh, older communitywill lead them to more mobile."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":711.787,"endTime":718.797,"body":"So we need better methods to fixthese fractures and what would"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":718.837,"endTime":721.017,"body":"be the optimal, properties."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":721.057,"endTime":728.457,"body":"One of these bone adhesives shouldhave to be in an ideal world for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":728.887,"endTime":730.781,"body":"fixing these, these problems best."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":731.742,"endTime":737.272,"body":"Bene: So, of course, um, such a boneadhesive has to be biocompatible."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":738.067,"endTime":746.297,"body":"that means it has to have the adequateproperties to stay within the bone because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":746.297,"endTime":749.887,"body":"we do not want to have an immune reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":749.897,"endTime":755.927,"body":"The body should accept the adhesiveand not remove it as fast as possible."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":755.927,"endTime":760.227,"body":"Um, so that's whybiocompatibility is important."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":760.347,"endTime":763.962,"body":"Also the material itselfshould Be, sterile."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":764.292,"endTime":768.232,"body":"This is,  the main pointwhen it comes to operations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":769.722,"endTime":774.162,"body":"Then we have to have adequatefracture, stabilization."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":774.612,"endTime":777.732,"body":"Of course these metal implantsprovided pretty easily"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":777.972,"endTime":783.542,"body":"but with glues itself, since theyare only applied to a comparably"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":783.542,"endTime":787.752,"body":"small area since the bone is hollow"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":788.082,"endTime":790.582,"body":"There's only the, the small oval."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":791.422,"endTime":793.842,"body":"where the paste can be applied to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":795.012,"endTime":800.312,"body":"And another important thing toconsider is the healing process."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":800.842,"endTime":805.262,"body":"Are there any restrictions whenit comes to the bone healing?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":806.072,"endTime":811.242,"body":"Um, because   the cells have toadhere to the surface of the glue."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":811.312,"endTime":815.062,"body":"They have to work themselvesthrough the adhesive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":815.142,"endTime":816.882,"body":"It has to be vacuole, vascularized."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":819.702,"endTime":825.642,"body":"The application should be as easyas possible since when you're in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":825.642,"endTime":832.712,"body":"operation room, um, the operationshould not take longer as necessary."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":833.422,"endTime":840.672,"body":"So, probably an application with a syringeis the best to reach, hard to reach areas."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":841.677,"endTime":847.777,"body":"And, um, yeah, in the end it shouldbe biodegradable without any toxic"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":847.787,"endTime":849.657,"body":"metabolites or side products."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":850.472,"endTime":857.622,"body":"Kevin: If you have a immune reactionto this adhesive, it could be that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":857.622,"endTime":861.742,"body":"the body degrades the adhesivesfaster than the bone heals and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":861.742,"endTime":864.442,"body":"then the attachment is lost."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":865.362,"endTime":871.442,"body":"Bene: So I don't think that it willhave an impact on the adhesive strength,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":871.902,"endTime":874.172,"body":"but it might lead to an inflammation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":874.912,"endTime":875.242,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":876.202,"endTime":878.582,"body":"And that's always badfor the healing process."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":878.982,"endTime":879.292,"body":"Bene: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":879.292,"endTime":884.282,"body":"Of course, it's in the interest ofthe patient to,  get the paste, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":884.282,"endTime":889.342,"body":"adhesive out of the body as as fast aspossible to avoid any further reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":891.212,"endTime":896.282,"body":"Kevin: And for the application to thefracture, is there pressure needed?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":896.802,"endTime":905.152,"body":"I imagine when you have a normal glueto glue, I don't know, uh, some stones"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":905.152,"endTime":911.332,"body":"together or wood, then you usually applypressure to the adhesives when it cures."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":912.402,"endTime":914.932,"body":"Is such pressure required with the bones?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":916.132,"endTime":922.882,"body":"Bene: Um, yes, since it is, sinceit's desired to,  have a very thin"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":922.892,"endTime":930.512,"body":"surface of the adhesive on one sideof the bone, um, it can be, suitable"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":930.602,"endTime":936.502,"body":"to press the two fragments togetherto squeeze some excessive, um, paste"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":936.532,"endTime":940.472,"body":"out of the fracture site and removeit, before you close up the wound."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":940.472,"endTime":942.942,"body":"So yeah, some pressureneeds to be applied."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":942.942,"endTime":946.662,"body":"Of course, this pressure canvary from surgeon to surgeon."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":946.752,"endTime":948.982,"body":"But yeah, it helps to putsome pressure on the side."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":948.982,"endTime":949.172,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":950.342,"endTime":956.502,"body":"Kevin: To again, have a minimal distancebetween the fragments of the bones and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":956.522,"endTime":961.352,"body":"the, the smaller, the distance, the fasterit heals because it has to replace less"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":962.142,"endTime":965.222,"body":"of the adhesive with actual bone tissue."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":965.672,"endTime":966.392,"body":"Bene: Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":966.702,"endTime":966.922,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":967.757,"endTime":968.007,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":968.617,"endTime":974.887,"body":"And, um, when we have these,properties, so, um, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":974.887,"endTime":978.397,"body":"mentioned, uh, biocompatibility."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":979.177,"endTime":983.697,"body":"Bene: It has to be manufacturedunder sterile conditions suitable"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":983.717,"endTime":991.507,"body":"fracture stabilization, um, easyapplication and biological degradation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":993.587,"endTime":993.947,"body":"Kevin: Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":994.502,"endTime":1000.882,"body":"With these, um, properties the adhesivesneed, what are the challenges when it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1000.882,"endTime":1005.482,"body":"comes to,  the adhesive chemically?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1005.482,"endTime":1009.992,"body":"How can you, basically get allthese, uh, conditions or what"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1009.992,"endTime":1012.902,"body":"are approaches to, um, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1013.682,"endTime":1016.112,"body":"Manufacture such a materialthat has all these."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1016.907,"endTime":1017.797,"body":"ideal properties."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1020.667,"endTime":1029.777,"body":"Bene: Yeah, to have all theseproperties, um, one have to unite several"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1029.777,"endTime":1031.517,"body":"properties of different adhesives."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1032.057,"endTime":1036.492,"body":"Because at the moment, You caneither have a very good fracture"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1036.492,"endTime":1042.962,"body":"stability, for example, withCyanoacrylates or,  polymethyl."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1042.962,"endTime":1044.762,"body":"Methacrylate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1044.782,"endTime":1049.082,"body":"So with all the organicadhesives, which are already in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1049.082,"endTime":1051.542,"body":"use . But they come at a cost."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1051.542,"endTime":1054.922,"body":"And this cost is the biocompatibility."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1054.952,"endTime":1059.152,"body":"Mm-hmm because these, these aremainly bioinert, but they cannot"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1059.152,"endTime":1061.262,"body":"be degraded by the body itself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1061.262,"endTime":1066.092,"body":"But if you have a look from theother side, if you want to have a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1066.142,"endTime":1073.572,"body":"biodegradable and biocompatible glue,they are not that stable at the moment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1074.202,"endTime":1082.947,"body":"So it's always some kind of comprisewhere you either have a very healthy"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1083.357,"endTime":1086.187,"body":"adhesive or a very stable adhesive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1086.187,"endTime":1093.467,"body":"So it's quite difficult to unite allthese requirements under one roof."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1093.467,"endTime":1094.026,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1094.707,"endTime":1101.307,"body":"So it's, uh, uh, the best of all can atthe moment not be done with the structure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1101.307,"endTime":1103.607,"body":"So to get this right, the, organic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1103.607,"endTime":1110.037,"body":"Adhesives, they basically do notharm the bones, but they are there"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1110.037,"endTime":1111.457,"body":"and the body cannot degrade them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1111.457,"endTime":1117.417,"body":"So the bone tissue is structuredaround them and it stays where it was."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1118.007,"endTime":1120.357,"body":"Bene: It stays in thebody for the whole time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1120.687,"endTime":1120.867,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1121.287,"endTime":1123.617,"body":"And, um, yeah, it will be there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1124.257,"endTime":1126.157,"body":"Kevin: And this will probably also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1126.952,"endTime":1132.352,"body":"decrease the stability of the healedbone after because it's not a uniform"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1132.842,"endTime":1135.162,"body":"structure again, or it's not a problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1135.822,"endTime":1140.522,"body":"Bene: Uh, I don't think this willbecome a problem, but,  after a while,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1140.802,"endTime":1143.512,"body":"this will be degraded to some degree."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1144.332,"endTime":1150.632,"body":"And often these, um, products,these metabolites are,  toxic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1150.702,"endTime":1155.472,"body":"And if the concentration becomestoo high, this may lead to problems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1155.472,"endTime":1162.792,"body":"Kevin: And then you also usethis, uh, problem for your thesis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1162.792,"endTime":1166.782,"body":"And how did you try totackle these problems?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1167.382,"endTime":1173.162,"body":"Bene: So, yeah, our approach was to,come from the biocompatible and sterile"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1173.162,"endTime":1179.062,"body":"side, because in our research group, wehave already established the synthesis"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1179.142,"endTime":1181.442,"body":"of calcium phosphate nanoparticles."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1182.372,"endTime":1187.431,"body":"So, um, and we knew that itcould be synthesized sterilely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1187.432,"endTime":1192.292,"body":"And so this was obviouslyour best starting point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1192.842,"endTime":1198.032,"body":"And then our idea was to use, catecholmolecules, which can be found in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1198.042,"endTime":1206.822,"body":"nature, in mussels, for example, orany other, underwater animal that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1206.842,"endTime":1208.972,"body":"have shown some adhesive properties."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1208.972,"endTime":1211.022,"body":"So these molecules."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1212.312,"endTime":1215.932,"body":"are said to play a crucial rolein the adhesion underwater."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1216.912,"endTime":1219.842,"body":"So this was one target molecule."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1220.872,"endTime":1226.502,"body":"And by the use of click chemistry, weattached These molecules to the surface"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1226.512,"endTime":1234.652,"body":"of our calcium phosphate nanoparticles,to bind calcium from the bone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1235.202,"endTime":1241.912,"body":"So we have the particle core withthe surface functionalization and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1242.002,"endTime":1246.012,"body":"um, these molecules on the surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1246.112,"endTime":1249.412,"body":"And when it was mixed with."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1249.982,"endTime":1256.532,"body":"Um, yeah, first we use water, thenwe switch to a hydrogel system with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1256.532,"endTime":1263.982,"body":"alginate, it was supposed to bind tobone, but this did not turn out the way"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1263.982,"endTime":1271.612,"body":"we expected because we have seen fromSEM images that the particle size has"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1271.612,"endTime":1273.852,"body":"decreased  after the last reaction step."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1273.852,"endTime":1280.472,"body":"So that for us, it meant thatthe particle itself was affected"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1280.892,"endTime":1282.612,"body":"by our surface molecule."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1283.172,"endTime":1283.352,"body":"Mhhh"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1283.372,"endTime":1283.782,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1284.092,"endTime":1286.552,"body":"So by these, catechol groups."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1288.047,"endTime":1291.567,"body":"Then you try to add, okay, to,to break this down, to make"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1291.567,"endTime":1293.517,"body":"it a little bit more easy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1294.117,"endTime":1302.617,"body":"So you basically try to attach gluemolecules, which are these, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1302.697,"endTime":1308.677,"body":"catechol, uh, compounds, which are alsofound in mussels and sea creatures."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1308.677,"endTime":1311.347,"body":"We use them to attach to surface of water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1312.142,"endTime":1313.032,"body":"ships or whatever."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1313.892,"endTime":1323.612,"body":"And then you attach those two calciumphosphate particles, which the bone"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1323.622,"endTime":1327.522,"body":"cells can use to structure the bone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1328.192,"endTime":1328.522,"body":"Bene: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1328.652,"endTime":1329.842,"body":"This was the idea."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1329.892,"endTime":1330.202,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1330.302,"endTime":1330.642,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1331.192,"endTime":1331.372,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1331.842,"endTime":1335.272,"body":"So just that I understood this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1335.272,"endTime":1336.981,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1336.982,"endTime":1337.242,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1337.742,"endTime":1343.892,"body":"And, uh, Then during the synthesis,the particle size of the,  calcium"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1343.892,"endTime":1348.632,"body":"phosphate decreased, which wasnot what you wanted, because why?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1349.372,"endTime":1349.732,"body":"Bene: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1349.822,"endTime":1355.792,"body":"So we have seen that the particle sizedecreased, and for us it meant that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1355.882,"endTime":1363.272,"body":"the cuts on the particle surface werealready adhering to the nanoparticles."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1364.082,"endTime":1369.752,"body":"So the calcium from the particlesaturated, our molecules."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1370.982,"endTime":1371.822,"body":"to some degree."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1371.822,"endTime":1377.902,"body":"We do not know if there were stillfree groups, which could adhere to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1377.902,"endTime":1380.602,"body":"the bone, um, after the application."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1382.222,"endTime":1390.692,"body":"But we have seen in mechanical testingthat there was no extra fracture"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1390.692,"endTime":1395.537,"body":"stabilization  with these catecholmodified particles in comparison to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1395.537,"endTime":1398.117,"body":"unmodified calcium phosphate particles."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1398.423,"endTime":1399.248,"body":"Kevin: So they could also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1400.543,"endTime":1405.593,"body":"Do the job somehow, but not asgood because they would not fixate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1406.213,"endTime":1409.253,"body":"the fragments together as much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1409.273,"endTime":1411.313,"body":"Bene: Only very little fixation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1412.763,"endTime":1417.133,"body":"Kevin: Did they stick to eachother or did they, uh, just each"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1417.163,"endTime":1422.143,"body":"particle was covered with the andyou still had separate particles."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1422.823,"endTime":1427.993,"body":"Bene: That's hard to tell because sincewe have a paste, um, we have a very"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1428.473,"endTime":1431.303,"body":"dense particle neighborhood, so to say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1431.303,"endTime":1436.293,"body":"So in our experiments, we have seenthat the particles are close to one"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1436.293,"endTime":1439.273,"body":"another and formed like aggregates."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1440.923,"endTime":1444.803,"body":"And these could be breaking up if thedispersion was not that high concentrated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1446.033,"endTime":1453.353,"body":"And for example, ultrasonicification wasused, but in our case, since the paste"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1453.393,"endTime":1457.273,"body":"is very highly packed with particles,you can only see the aggregates and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1457.363,"endTime":1460.743,"body":"um, the reduction of the core size."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1460.743,"endTime":1465.413,"body":"And another approach wasto modify the surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1466.508,"endTime":1468.428,"body":"with the, with the peptide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1468.648,"endTime":1474.208,"body":"We have found this sequence inthe literature and the sequence"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1474.218,"endTime":1482.338,"body":"was isolated from a protein whichcan actually be found in a bone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1483.048,"endTime":1488.328,"body":"So we have used this sequencefrom our Asian colleagues to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1489.008,"endTime":1494.083,"body":"attach it to the Again, to thecarcinophosphate nanoparticle surface"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1494.573,"endTime":1501.163,"body":"to bind to collagen in bone, butthis comes at a very high cost."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1501.213,"endTime":1509.603,"body":"Even though we have seen an increasein fracture stabilization, um, we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1509.603,"endTime":1514.843,"body":"did not want to use  the peptidein the end because a few milligram"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1514.843,"endTime":1518.123,"body":"already costs some thousands of euros."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1518.163,"endTime":1518.423,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1519.073,"endTime":1525.353,"body":"So this, the degree of increased,um, fracture stability was"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1525.503,"endTime":1527.333,"body":"not worth the high cost."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1527.683,"endTime":1528.033,"body":"Kevin: No."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1528.183,"endTime":1534.553,"body":"How much would you need for, let'ssay, um, you break your wrist and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1534.563,"endTime":1538.383,"body":"then you have to restructure the bone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1539.423,"endTime":1540.453,"body":"How much of the peptide?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1540.958,"endTime":1547.258,"body":"Bene: Let's say you have, uh,it's a clean, clean cut in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1547.258,"endTime":1548.668,"body":"between the both fragments."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1549.478,"endTime":1556.898,"body":"We'd probably use maybe five milliliters,um, maybe one gram of particle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1556.898,"endTime":1562.428,"body":"And 20 milligram of the peptideitself already cost 4, 000 euros."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1564.398,"endTime":1568.348,"body":"So, um, yeah, it's not really worth it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1569.018,"endTime":1569.368,"body":"Kevin: for that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1569.398,"endTime":1572.498,"body":"You can buy quite someamount of titanium, I guess."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1572.838,"endTime":1573.008,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1574.218,"endTime":1577.908,"body":"Bene: It's probably cheaper to use,but, um, since we have only very little"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1577.908,"endTime":1582.418,"body":"fracture stabilization achieved within, in this project, it's probably"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1582.678,"endTime":1588.728,"body":"better suitable for unloaded fractureslike fingers or skull fractures."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1589.233,"endTime":1593.983,"body":"Kevin: So when it's healing, youcan remove all kinds of pressure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1594.033,"endTime":1597.723,"body":"For example, with the hand, you put it ina cast or something, and then you don't."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1598.063,"endTime":1598.253,"body":"Bene: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1598.253,"endTime":1598.573,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1598.693,"endTime":1598.943,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1598.943,"endTime":1599.623,"body":"Something like this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1599.623,"endTime":1606.803,"body":"So, um, we, we wouldn't be able to heala femur probably with what we got only"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1606.803,"endTime":1611.833,"body":"if you would stay in bed the whole time,but this is also a disadvantage since"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1612.453,"endTime":1617.558,"body":"the bone remodeling is affected by thepressure and the force you, you apply."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1618.408,"endTime":1618.978,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1619.408,"endTime":1624.388,"body":"Kevin: This was, uh, yeah, whennew approaches and, um, how"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1624.398,"endTime":1626.748,"body":"would you continue with this?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1626.768,"endTime":1634.118,"body":"Like, um, this whole research, trydifferent, Adhesives molecules, so"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1634.118,"endTime":1639.508,"body":"a replacement for the catechol toincrease the strength of the glue."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1639.538,"endTime":1645.878,"body":"But the particles, they basically do theirjob and  are compatible with the bones."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1646.773,"endTime":1651.483,"body":"Bene: Yeah, I think the approach withnanoparticles in combination with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1651.623,"endTime":1654.963,"body":"hydrogel to me seems very suitable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1656.203,"endTime":1661.053,"body":"And yeah, we have seen this nowin combination with alginate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1661.866,"endTime":1666.671,"body":"And of course, this is a perfectfit, since alginate, um, gelates"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1666.711,"endTime":1669.881,"body":"in the presence of, of calcium,have calcium in the particles."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1669.881,"endTime":1671.431,"body":"So this was a perfect fit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1673.011,"endTime":1678.161,"body":"And maybe one approach would beto modify the alginate further to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1678.251,"endTime":1684.151,"body":"bring in more stability with that,or have, um, cross linking agents on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1684.151,"endTime":1689.651,"body":"the surface to increase, uh, to, todecrease the mesh size in the hydrogel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1690.496,"endTime":1697.066,"body":"To, um, have even less water in, inthe network, of course, this cannot"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1697.066,"endTime":1702.786,"body":"be reduced completely since we needthe entrance of water, lipids, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1702.796,"endTime":1707.226,"body":"blood for the vascularization andfor the transport of the cells."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1707.386,"endTime":1712.756,"body":"So from starting with our project, Iwould say the modification of alginate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1713.296,"endTime":1718.761,"body":"and the cross linking the covalentcross linking of the particles with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1718.841,"endTime":1724.641,"body":"the matrix, the alginate matrixcould be one approach that could lead"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1724.761,"endTime":1726.601,"body":"to higher fracture stabilization."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1726.791,"endTime":1730.781,"body":"Kevin: So then the alginatebasically bridges between the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1731.131,"endTime":1733.911,"body":"nanoparticles and the bone tissue?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1734.131,"endTime":1735.371,"body":"Bene: Yes, that's the idea."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1735.691,"endTime":1736.021,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1736.021,"endTime":1741.401,"body":"Bene: Because if we only usedwater, they All the water that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1741.421,"endTime":1747.061,"body":"entered the fracture site,  wouldlead to washing out of the paste."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1747.231,"endTime":1752.951,"body":"So to keep the, the paste inplace, we can use the hydrogel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1752.951,"endTime":1758.471,"body":"Kevin: Interesting, because in thesurgery, you can not really avoid that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1758.521,"endTime":1760.601,"body":"water is getting into the wounds and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1760.751,"endTime":1761.911,"body":"Bene: that's happening on its own."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1761.981,"endTime":1762.211,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1762.501,"endTime":1767.141,"body":"Kevin: You will always have the,the water, which is then a problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1767.141,"endTime":1767.481,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1767.481,"endTime":1767.581,"body":"Bene: All right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1767.871,"endTime":1768.041,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1768.381,"endTime":1769.661,"body":"And this can easily be mixed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1769.691,"endTime":1774.701,"body":"Um, right before the operation, youcan prepare this solution, the alginate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1774.701,"endTime":1781.451,"body":"solution in the morning, and then surgeoncan, can mix the particles into the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1781.451,"endTime":1785.611,"body":"liquid phase, transfer it to a syringeand apply it to the fracture site."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1787.056,"endTime":1790.226,"body":"So here, the applicationis quite easy and fast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1791.256,"endTime":1796.136,"body":"And since it's not hardening orsetting, um, the one can be closed"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1796.826,"endTime":1804.266,"body":"and we already have the exact fracturestability can achieve with this, system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1805.476,"endTime":1806.266,"body":"Kevin: That sounds great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1806.306,"endTime":1812.726,"body":"So in an ideal world, this would, incomparison to, let's say a titanium"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1812.726,"endTime":1818.356,"body":"plate that is, uh, screwed intoboth, bone fragments, you would only"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1818.366,"endTime":1821.476,"body":"have one instead of two surgeries."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1821.606,"endTime":1821.936,"body":"Bene: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1822.016,"endTime":1825.586,"body":"Kevin: When you consider that youalso have to take out the titanium"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1825.586,"endTime":1833.266,"body":"parts and it would provide asimilar stability to the fragments."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1833.306,"endTime":1839.296,"body":"And then during the healing process,the cells can basically use the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1839.296,"endTime":1844.656,"body":"calcium phosphate nanoparticlesto build the bone on and have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1844.706,"endTime":1847.516,"body":"the blood veins going through it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1847.616,"endTime":1852.126,"body":"and then it would also decreasethe risk of inflammation"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1852.186,"endTime":1854.556,"body":"compared to conventional methods."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1855.226,"endTime":1857.706,"body":"Bene: In an ideal world,this would be the case."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1857.766,"endTime":1858.316,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1858.956,"endTime":1861.756,"body":"But, um, well, we're not at the beginning."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1861.766,"endTime":1866.591,"body":"This topic has been investigatedfor the last 70 years, maybe."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1867.061,"endTime":1871.651,"body":"And so far no one has come up withan idea solution to this problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1872.211,"endTime":1877.591,"body":"So this will probably be subjectto a few more years of proper"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1877.611,"endTime":1880.951,"body":"investigation by scientists worldwide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1881.071,"endTime":1885.091,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, but it has alot of,  promises and I think"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1885.091,"endTime":1888.151,"body":"it's worth to pursue further."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1888.511,"endTime":1893.482,"body":"Um, how long do you think untilsuch a,  Or what other steps have to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1893.502,"endTime":1900.782,"body":"follow after you can show in the labthat it works on test components."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1900.962,"endTime":1906.232,"body":"Bene: Once you have shown that theglue is capable of binding underwater,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1906.392,"endTime":1913.522,"body":"and the mechanical tests have showngood results, at least in comparison"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1913.522,"endTime":1918.962,"body":"to smaller bones, one could probablycontinue with animal experiments."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1920.192,"endTime":1926.582,"body":"Um, well, the smaller the animal, the moredifficult it becomes to apply the paste."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1927.252,"endTime":1927.472,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1927.472,"endTime":1931.432,"body":"And then I think you would have togo through all these clinical trials"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1931.462,"endTime":1933.472,"body":"that I'm not exactly familiar with."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1933.502,"endTime":1933.852,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1934.452,"endTime":1942.232,"body":"That's a whole new topic then, butthere's still some time required,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1942.262,"endTime":1947.642,"body":"but you see that there will be in thefuture, some applications of this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1948.402,"endTime":1953.582,"body":"Bene: Yeah, I think the first applicationwith some kind of bone adhesive can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1953.592,"endTime":1958.472,"body":"be seen in orthodontology becauseteeth are no tissue that is alive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1959.872,"endTime":1966.982,"body":"Um, so there's no vascularization andmaybe this could be the first step"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1967.882,"endTime":1973.062,"body":"where,  such an adhesive can be usedto fill in a hole in, in the tooth."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1974.047,"endTime":1981.277,"body":"And then, um, insert, you know,some kind of artificial tooth."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1981.347,"endTime":1986.387,"body":"So maybe a replacement for crowns butI'm just fishing in the dark here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1987.377,"endTime":1992.997,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, but there's alwaysthe outlook to see what other"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1993.027,"endTime":1997.031,"body":"potential applications for thesekinds of materials there are."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1998.142,"endTime":2000.682,"body":"Yeah, then, uh, thank you very much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2000.702,"endTime":2006.142,"body":"There was a very interesting insightsinto bone adhesives, which is also a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2006.172,"endTime":2013.132,"body":"completely new topic for me, but I found avery interesting, um, intersection between"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2013.172,"endTime":2015.442,"body":"chemistry and medicine in this part."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2015.462,"endTime":2017.332,"body":"So yeah, thank you very much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2018.072,"endTime":2019.082,"body":"Bene: Yeah, I totally agree."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2019.092,"endTime":2020.382,"body":"Thank you for having me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2020.382,"endTime":2023.122,"body":"It was a great experience to be here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2023.622,"endTime":2024.022,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2025.012,"endTime":2029.422,"body":"If you liked this episode, pleaseconsider following  on wherever"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2029.422,"endTime":2031.492,"body":"you're listening to this podcast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2032.352,"endTime":2037.652,"body":"Also check out the show notesfor more informations and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2037.682,"endTime":2040.072,"body":"my website innovateandreact."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2040.452,"endTime":2044.892,"body":"com everything small and without spaces."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2047.272,"endTime":2049.572,"body":"That's it for today."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2049.642,"endTime":2052.602,"body":"Thank you for listening and stay curious."}]}