{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":null,"startTime":3,"endTime":5.25,"body":"Kevin: Welcome to Innovate and React."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":5.58,"endTime":13.05,"body":"In today's episode, we will be talkingabout electrolysis and how this technology"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":13.05,"endTime":20.43,"body":"can be improved with theoretical chemistryand electrochemical improvements."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":21.36,"endTime":23.8,"body":"Today I am with, uh, Usama."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":24.449,"endTime":28.299,"body":"He's, uh, currently doing hisPhD at the University Duisburg"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":29.14,"endTime":31.619,"body":"Essen in electro catalysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":32.31,"endTime":37.11,"body":"I'm very excited to learn more abouthow theoretical driven approaches"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":37.11,"endTime":40.05,"body":"can make better catalysts for water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":40.05,"endTime":43.47,"body":"Electrolysis welcome, Osama."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":44.079,"endTime":44.679,"body":"Usama: Hi Kevin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":44.859,"endTime":49.449,"body":"Uh, first of all, thank you for invitingme on your nice podcast platform."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":50.289,"endTime":54.489,"body":"As you have already told them that myname is Mohammad Usama and my journey,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":54.669,"endTime":57.999,"body":"I want to talk about a little bit aboutmy journey before because it is pretty,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":58.299,"endTime":62.889,"body":"it is a bit unconventional, but I thinkthat's what makes it more exciting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":62.964,"endTime":67.554,"body":"That would also be motivation forsomeone who is trying to figure out,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":67.974,"endTime":71.724,"body":"uh, their next step in their career,especially in academic career."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":72.204,"endTime":76.284,"body":"So I started my academic career withBachelor's of Mechatronics in engineering."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":76.704,"endTime":79.434,"body":"Uh, I did from Pakistan University."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":79.794,"endTime":85.194,"body":"Um, I was always fascinatedwith machines, reports and how"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":85.194,"endTime":86.814,"body":"different systems comes together."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":87.444,"endTime":90.954,"body":"So that curiosity naturallypushed me, uh, toward."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":91.599,"endTime":93.069,"body":"Exploring automobiles."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":93.519,"endTime":98.799,"body":"So I went to UTM, university ofTechnology in Malasia to pursue automotive"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":99.279,"endTime":100.929,"body":"masters in automotive engineering."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":101.529,"endTime":104.559,"body":"During this time, I really enjoyedworking with vehicle systems,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":104.559,"endTime":107.109,"body":"simulations and, uh, control designs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":107.769,"endTime":108.159,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":108.219,"endTime":111.819,"body":"So, but at some point I realizedthat I want to go even deeper,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":111.909,"endTime":113.889,"body":"deeper to the atomic level."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":114.309,"endTime":119.709,"body":"I started asking myself, okay, so what'sreally happening inside these systems?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":119.979,"endTime":120.759,"body":"We rely on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":121.554,"endTime":125.034,"body":"What happens inside a battery, noteven, I can say in the inside, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":125.034,"endTime":129.804,"body":"catalyst what's really happened atthe level of atoms and electrons."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":130.164,"endTime":134.574,"body":"So that diversity led me to thefield of theoretical lysis and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":134.579,"endTime":139.854,"body":"electrochemistry, which I'm pursuingthrough my PhD, uh, at the theology"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":139.854,"endTime":144.294,"body":"of, uh, chemistry in University ofBoswick Essen, which is in Germany,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":144.774,"endTime":147.264,"body":"uh, in the group of Professor Exner."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":147.759,"endTime":151.959,"body":"So in a way, my career has moved froma macro scale to the atomic scale"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":152.619,"endTime":152.799,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":152.799,"endTime":157.394,"body":"That's interesting because, um,usually when people study chemistry,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":157.394,"endTime":161.677,"body":"they go from The molecules and thensomehow end up in the application"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":161.737,"endTime":164.497,"body":"later on in their jobs in the industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":164.925,"endTime":166.695,"body":"Usama: That top or down,I'm going ball down."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":166.722,"endTime":167.012,"body":"Kevin: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":170.602,"endTime":171.352,"body":"Usama: Yeah, that's true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":171.412,"endTime":173.332,"body":"But that's the beauty ofscience and engineering."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":173.422,"endTime":177.202,"body":"You look at the same problem,you look the same problem at very"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":177.202,"endTime":179.302,"body":"different, uh, levels of detail."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":179.902,"endTime":184.552,"body":"So I would, I would say to the personswho wants to switch the phase or want"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":184.552,"endTime":187.552,"body":"to explore more, they just need tobe curious and take a leap of faith."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":187.882,"endTime":189.532,"body":"But the important component is will."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":189.907,"endTime":191.077,"body":"If there's a will, there's a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":191.077,"endTime":191.287,"body":"way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":192.097,"endTime":194.102,"body":"So that's a brief introduction of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":194.562,"endTime":194.782,"body":"my"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":194.977,"endTime":195.277,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":195.277,"endTime":195.787,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":196.027,"endTime":201.937,"body":"That is indeed not the, uh, classicway I would say, but especially"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":201.937,"endTime":204.937,"body":"these interdisciplinary, uh, stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":206.167,"endTime":210.877,"body":"I think always brings more value tothe whole discussion because then with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":210.877,"endTime":215.347,"body":"your engineering background, you havenow a different point of view on these"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":215.827,"endTime":223.117,"body":"chemical problems on the atomic scale,and that might bring new discoveries"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":223.117,"endTime":228.397,"body":"that other, uh, chemists with a classicalbackground would not have thought about."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":229.537,"endTime":235.207,"body":"So it's like this interdisciplinary,um, research is always productive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":235.605,"endTime":236.145,"body":"Usama: I don't know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":237.365,"endTime":241.325,"body":"But yeah, because engineers mostlythink about the classic on the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":241.325,"endTime":245.555,"body":"classical level, so they, theyalways want something hands-on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":246.635,"endTime":250.415,"body":"They, they do not just rely on the,uh, quantum mechanics on or on the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":250.415,"endTime":253.205,"body":"quantum level because they cannotsee your, imagine those things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":253.865,"endTime":257.135,"body":"But when you try to connect thosethings, so yeah, something really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":257.135,"endTime":260.795,"body":"good happens sometimes, maybemost of the time, I don't know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":261.125,"endTime":262.34,"body":"I can just comment on myself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":263.26,"endTime":264.2,"body":"For me it happened."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":264.65,"endTime":264.95,"body":"Kevin: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":266.09,"endTime":271.675,"body":"And um, now we want to talkabout the electrolysis and how."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":272.435,"endTime":276.185,"body":"Catalysts are used to makethis reaction more efficient."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":276.965,"endTime":279.515,"body":"And maybe let's start with the basics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":279.515,"endTime":285.275,"body":"So the electrolysis we are talkingabout is the water electrolysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":285.755,"endTime":289.865,"body":"Why do we need water electrolysisand how does it work?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":290.486,"endTime":290.996,"body":"Usama: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":290.996,"endTime":294.626,"body":"Before we talk about electrolysis,we need to know why do we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":294.626,"endTime":296.336,"body":"need electrolysis, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":296.636,"endTime":297.956,"body":"Why should we move towards"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":297.956,"endTime":298.856,"body":"electrolysis?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":299.186,"endTime":305.756,"body":"For that we should, we should talk aboutthe importance of hydrogen because, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":305.786,"endTime":311.516,"body":"these days, hydrogen is known as the fuelof future, but I would say it's more of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":311.516,"endTime":313.736,"body":"a glue for the future energy systems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":313.736,"endTime":313.946,"body":"Why?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":313.946,"endTime":316.616,"body":"I would say that because itconnects renewable electricity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":317.426,"endTime":322.676,"body":"And with the sectors that are really hardto electrify, for example, heavy industry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":322.676,"endTime":326.486,"body":"like shipping, aviation, automotivesector, you can name any of them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":327.306,"endTime":333.786,"body":"Mostly the, uh, global hydrogen, Iguess 90 to 95% global hydrogen is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":333.846,"endTime":335.496,"body":"currently made from fossil fuels."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":336.081,"endTime":337.221,"body":"Kevin: steam reforming."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":337.296,"endTime":340.806,"body":"Usama: it can be either, yeah,it can be either a natural gas"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":340.806,"endTime":342.366,"body":"via steam from just as you said."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":343.086,"endTime":345.066,"body":"Uh, or coal gasification."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":345.066,"endTime":349.586,"body":"In some countries like China, whichemits millions of tons of carbon"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":349.586,"endTime":352.706,"body":"dioxide, that is really affectingour environment on a global scale."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":353.336,"endTime":358.551,"body":"So if we, if we want to shift towardsthe green transition, we really need to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":359.126,"endTime":360.716,"body":"Clean hydrogen or green?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":360.716,"endTime":361.256,"body":"Hydrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":361.556,"endTime":362.456,"body":"Why are we saying green?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":362.456,"endTime":362.966,"body":"Hydrogen?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":362.966,"endTime":367.616,"body":"Because the hydrogen created by thenatural gas or coal gasification"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":367.616,"endTime":369.416,"body":"is known as, I guess, gray."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":369.476,"endTime":370.196,"body":"Gray or brown."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":370.286,"endTime":370.916,"body":"Hydrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":370.946,"endTime":371.786,"body":"Gray is related to The,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":371.786,"endTime":373.916,"body":"natural gas, or brown is related to the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":373.916,"endTime":374.126,"body":"coal."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":374.531,"endTime":374.771,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":374.771,"endTime":377.351,"body":"This whole color schemes are a bit"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":377.666,"endTime":377.936,"body":"Usama: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":378.251,"endTime":380.381,"body":"Kevin: and, uh, I think it's a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":380.381,"endTime":385.721,"body":"better way to think about just the,um, CO2 emission that are caused by"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":385.721,"endTime":388.511,"body":"the different, uh, different production"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":388.691,"endTime":393.041,"body":"Usama: for that, I would like to emphasizehere on the mini case study, uh, there's,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":393.191,"endTime":395.141,"body":"for example, let me share this, share."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":395.681,"endTime":401.671,"body":"China produces about 33 million tonsof hydrogen per year, mostly from coal"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":401.671,"endTime":406.741,"body":"gasification that emit evenmore CO2 carbon dioxide than the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":406.741,"endTime":409.201,"body":"entire country of UK annually."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":409.906,"endTime":414.406,"body":"So this really shows that thewhy, why is it really urgent to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":414.556,"endTime":416.386,"body":"transition towards the green hydrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":416.896,"endTime":418.696,"body":"Kevin: That's a huge lever there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":418.766,"endTime":419.096,"body":"Usama: Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":419.796,"endTime":420.216,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":420.216,"endTime":427.176,"body":"To encounter this problem, we need to comeup with something, uh, which is which,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":427.206,"endTime":432.696,"body":"which does not emit carbon dioxide on thatscale, or should not emit a little bit,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":432.696,"endTime":434.646,"body":"even a little bit of the carbon dioxide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":435.186,"endTime":435.921,"body":"So that process."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":436.941,"endTime":441.351,"body":"In the feed of electrochemistry,which is basically just uh, how"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":441.351,"endTime":444.651,"body":"the electricity interacts with thechemical reactions, one of the key"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":444.651,"endTime":447.021,"body":"processes is electro electrolysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":447.531,"endTime":452.181,"body":"So in electrolysis we useelectricity to split molecules"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":452.181,"endTime":453.411,"body":"into their building blocks."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":453.711,"endTime":457.461,"body":"For example, in water electrolysis,just you talked about, we split"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":457.461,"endTime":459.981,"body":"water into hydrogen and oxygen uhhuh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":460.281,"endTime":465.261,"body":"So electrolysis is basically a bridgebetween green electricity and green"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":465.261,"endTime":465.621,"body":"fuels."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":466.656,"endTime":471.244,"body":"Okay, but because I'm a Ian, so Ishould also give you the theoretical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":471.244,"endTime":472.624,"body":"perspective for electrolysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":472.864,"endTime":476.494,"body":"What we try to do in electrolysisis to understand the fundamental"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":476.494,"endTime":480.664,"body":"reactions, how molecules interactwith the catalyst surface and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":480.664,"endTime":482.734,"body":"how bone breaks, how bonds forms."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":483.154,"endTime":488.344,"body":"So if we can understand these mechanismsdeeply, we can design better catalysts and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":488.499,"endTime":488.919,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":489.934,"endTime":498.484,"body":"So in the um, electrolysis process, youneed the catalyst on the electrodes to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":498.484,"endTime":503.619,"body":"basically get a better interaction betweenthe water molecule and the electron."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":505.654,"endTime":510.454,"body":"Usama: Yeah, to enhance thereaction and make it more faster"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":510.454,"endTime":514.414,"body":"and efficient because there are somechallenges which we need to tackle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":514.849,"endTime":522.019,"body":"Um, for example, these days or currentlywe're using, um, expensive electrode,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":522.529,"endTime":527.029,"body":"we're using the material iridium orplatinum reactions have high energy"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":527.029,"endTime":532.309,"body":"barriers, which means that will require alot of electricity, which means more cost."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":532.729,"endTime":534.049,"body":"So that's another problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":534.709,"endTime":537.439,"body":"There's another problem about selectivity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":537.619,"endTime":541.254,"body":"Uh, you, you might have byproducts, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":543.274,"endTime":543.904,"body":"So on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":543.904,"endTime":548.554,"body":"There are a lot of, from that I'm justlisted just one and, and, and I, I guess,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":548.554,"endTime":552.364,"body":"uh, Europe, uh, green hydrogen production."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":552.364,"endTime":557.044,"body":"I, I, I just read it I guess, uh, oneyear ago that it was three to four"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":557.044,"endTime":559.894,"body":"times expensive than the gray hydrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":559.894,"endTime":562.414,"body":"So it is still expensive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":562.414,"endTime":564.514,"body":"If we talk about even the electrolysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":564.994,"endTime":569.254,"body":"So the big question is how do wemake electrolysis cheaper, faster?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":569.659,"endTime":573.589,"body":"And scalable, and that'swhere the catalyst come in."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":573.919,"endTime":575.539,"body":"And that's the challenge in general."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":576.529,"endTime":581.539,"body":"Kevin: So better catalyst for cheaperreaction overall because you get a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":581.539,"endTime":583.914,"body":"higher efficiency and then, uh, you can."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":584.809,"endTime":590.929,"body":"Get a lower cost of the hydrogen in theend because, like for the pe electrolysis"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":590.929,"endTime":597.979,"body":"for example, um, iridium is one ofthe key metals that is used in, in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":597.979,"endTime":601.039,"body":"catalyst and that's very expensive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":601.069,"endTime":605.659,"body":"And therefore, it would be greatif we can reduce the amount that's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":605.659,"endTime":607.399,"body":"necessary for the same reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":608.559,"endTime":608.829,"body":"Usama: Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":608.979,"endTime":609.249,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":609.609,"endTime":613.749,"body":"That's the main, that'swhere my work comes in."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":614.979,"endTime":615.789,"body":"So, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":615.939,"endTime":621.159,"body":"So while we are working with thecatalyst, or how can we improve, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":621.189,"endTime":624.129,"body":"these reactions on the catalyst phase?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":625.614,"endTime":627.084,"body":"So I'm a ation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":627.084,"endTime":632.124,"body":"So let me just tell you about the whytheoretical chemistry is important and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":632.124,"endTime":635.544,"body":"how can we just improve these reactions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":636.144,"endTime":638.484,"body":"So let me just give youthe introduction first."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":638.484,"endTime":642.024,"body":"So what is theoreticalchemistry and how does it work?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":642.354,"endTime":647.394,"body":"So instead of building catalystafter catalyst in lab, uh, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":647.394,"endTime":652.134,"body":"is slow and costly, um, theoreticalchemistry basically lets you simulate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":652.134,"endTime":653.724,"body":"those reactions on a computer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":654.444,"endTime":658.524,"body":"So you don't have to, uh, make catalystand then try it and then see, okay,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":658.524,"endTime":660.024,"body":"it's not, is it worth it or not?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":660.024,"endTime":665.454,"body":"And the, and the process goes on soone can, okay, so that's the start"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":665.484,"endTime":669.714,"body":"base of the theoretical chemistry,but there must be a level of theories"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":670.284,"endTime":674.514,"body":"because it's not just simple, it's yougo in and you get green hydrogen, no."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":675.324,"endTime":678.984,"body":"Their level of theories where wecan start from molecular dynamics,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":678.984,"endTime":680.874,"body":"meaning we simulate atoms."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":681.909,"endTime":682.539,"body":"Over time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":682.809,"endTime":686.079,"body":"Then there are continu modelsfor large scale processes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":686.379,"endTime":691.059,"body":"Then there comes DFT, which, which weuse, which is at the quantum scale."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":691.059,"endTime":693.849,"body":"So let me tell you about the DFT"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":694.539,"endTime":695.574,"body":"Kevin: DFT stand for?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":697.059,"endTime":699.009,"body":"Usama: A, oh, sorry,I didn't introduce it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":699.309,"endTime":704.589,"body":"DFT means, uh, it's a method known andit stands for density functional theory."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":705.369,"endTime":708.249,"body":"You can think about the FTas a quantum microscope."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":708.639,"endTime":713.349,"body":"It allows us, it basically allowsus to see how electrons move and the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":713.349,"endTime":715.719,"body":"bond forms and breaks at atomic level."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":716.199,"endTime":717.849,"body":"That's the simplest, different definition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":718.067,"endTime":721.367,"body":"Kevin: So, yeah, it's avery deep into the reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":722.049,"endTime":726.999,"body":"Usama: Yeah, so you can predict how thecatalyst will behave before you even"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":726.999,"endTime":731.019,"body":"make it but, uh, we can go beyond DFT."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":731.139,"endTime":735.789,"body":"Just like in my work, we have gonebeyond DFT densely function theory"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":735.789,"endTime":741.279,"body":"to use GaN canonical because, um,we need to account roll of potential"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":741.519,"endTime":745.119,"body":"because it's electro catalysis,so there's a roll off electricity,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":745.119,"endTime":746.679,"body":"so we need to account for that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":747.339,"endTime":751.239,"body":"Then as we are moving towardsartificial intelligence, so there are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":751.239,"endTime":755.559,"body":"also some meta techniques or methodsabout to find out the transition"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":755.559,"endTime":756.759,"body":"stage using machine learning."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":758.214,"endTime":758.574,"body":"Nagel pain."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":758.964,"endTime":762.924,"body":"So you can find out the transitionstage using those methods"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":762.924,"endTime":763.794,"body":"which are really efficient."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":764.694,"endTime":770.244,"body":"So that's, you can, uh, connectthermodynamics with kinetics and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":770.244,"endTime":774.774,"body":"you can also have the influenceof the ation and the gas space."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":775.179,"endTime":778.689,"body":"So DFT isn't just about staticcalculations, it's becoming, it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":778.689,"endTime":780.819,"body":"becoming more smarter and dynamics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":781.269,"endTime":781.329,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":782.289,"endTime":784.809,"body":"Thanks to the advancedframeworks and machine learning."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":784.869,"endTime":785.409,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":785.949,"endTime":789.399,"body":"So in, in short, I would say thetheory isn't replacing experiments."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":789.759,"endTime":794.289,"body":"It's just guiding them, telling us whichideas are worth testing and which are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":794.439,"endTime":794.769,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":795.249,"endTime":800.859,"body":"It already narrows down whichcatalysts to look at more closely"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":801.159,"endTime":806.709,"body":"and which are basically a mootpoint because they Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":806.739,"endTime":809.199,"body":"Because they don't have any, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":809.664,"endTime":811.134,"body":"Activity anyways."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":811.134,"endTime":815.61,"body":"And Do you think it's sometimesmore obvious than in other cases"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":815.61,"endTime":818.55,"body":"that you can say, okay, here wedon't really know if it's really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":818.55,"endTime":820.29,"body":"great, so we have to test it in lab?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":820.29,"endTime":826.02,"body":"Or do you already have aclear winners and losers?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":826.5,"endTime":829.92,"body":"I would say in like the catalyst, andthen you can say, okay, these are out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":830.13,"endTime":831.06,"body":"When we look at those."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":832.343,"endTime":835.028,"body":"Usama: I think it'snever a one line answer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":835.028,"endTime":839.258,"body":"It's never easy to just say,okay, this one is not worth it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":839.258,"endTime":840.943,"body":"And because every method has caveat."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":841.008,"endTime":841.428,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":842.408,"endTime":843.518,"body":"Usama: Pros and cons, of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":843.788,"endTime":849.638,"body":"So sometimes, uh, experimentally,experimentalist, synthesize something"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":849.638,"endTime":853.448,"body":"and that, that's not even in the theory,but sometimes it's the other way around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":853.448,"endTime":858.758,"body":"So, so you cannot just excludeanything on, on a basis of simple rule."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":859.178,"endTime":860.468,"body":"So you need to explore more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":860.798,"endTime":866.208,"body":"For example, in my case, as I work with,or as I am working with, uh, iridium"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":866.258,"endTime":871.268,"body":"dioxide, which is known as the best OERcatalyst because of the stability and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":871.703,"endTime":879.293,"body":"Of course activity, but there might beother materials which can perform as"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":879.413,"endTime":881.963,"body":"same as iridium dioxide, but we haven't"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":881.963,"endTime":882.713,"body":"explored that yet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":883.493,"endTime":884.933,"body":"So that's one of the purpose."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":885.473,"endTime":886.403,"body":"Yeah, that would be good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":886.403,"endTime":889.373,"body":"Because iridium is verymuch expensive and it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":889.628,"endTime":889.928,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":890.573,"endTime":895.673,"body":"Usama: So, and that comes to the, uh,purpose of my work because we are trying"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":895.673,"endTime":898.763,"body":"to benchmark those standards because."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":899.483,"endTime":904.763,"body":"As it is the best catalyst underanodic conditions, or we can say, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":904.793,"endTime":909.053,"body":"in as of course, in acidic conditionsbecause it does not grow easily."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":909.338,"endTime":909.548,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":910.583,"endTime":911.093,"body":"Usama: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":911.333,"endTime":916.973,"body":"If we explored the all the propertiesthat are related to the a m dioxide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":917.543,"endTime":918.533,"body":"Especially 1, 1 0."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":918.533,"endTime":922.223,"body":"Facet on which I'm working, onecan ask, okay, what is 1, 1, 0?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":922.223,"endTime":922.563,"body":"Facet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":922.583,"endTime":926.693,"body":"So 1, 1 0 facet isbasically, uh, well defined."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":926.843,"endTime":933.493,"body":"It exposes if it exposes reactivemotives, um, we can model reliable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":933.653,"endTime":938.663,"body":"So it reflects, uh, catalytic behaviorseen under operating conditions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":939.443,"endTime":939.863,"body":"Okay, so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":941.948,"endTime":944.888,"body":"So it would be a rightmodel to surface to uncover?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":945.368,"endTime":946.988,"body":"Mm, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":947.018,"endTime":950.618,"body":"It would be right model to uncoverprinciples we can transfer later to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":950.618,"endTime":952.838,"body":"the cheaper earth abundant systems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":953.228,"endTime":957.278,"body":"That's one of the goal that that's whywe used Iridium dioxide 1, 1 0 in our"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":957.333,"endTime":957.753,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":958.418,"endTime":964.178,"body":"So you want to find out all its propertiesin very much detail, and then you can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":964.178,"endTime":969.198,"body":"later on check which other systemshave similar properties, so they could"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":969.198,"endTime":971.748,"body":"also perform similar in this reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":972.033,"endTime":973.113,"body":"Usama: Similar to, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":973.263,"endTime":973.653,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":973.713,"endTime":975.123,"body":"That's, that's one of the goal."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":975.873,"endTime":980.283,"body":"I cannot say that most of the, all theproperty, but I can say like, pretty much,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":982.353,"endTime":984.723,"body":"or we can say that wehave, uh, set a basis"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":984.723,"endTime":987.513,"body":"of it so others can apply and build."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":988.708,"endTime":989.128,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":989.503,"endTime":995.099,"body":"So now we know how the DFTand uh, the theoretical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":995.396,"endTime":998.73,"body":"chemistry can help to identify."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":999.495,"endTime":1003.095,"body":"Possible catalyst and yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1003.215,"endTime":1007.985,"body":"Let's look a bit more about,uh, your reaction, what you did."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1007.985,"endTime":1013.565,"body":"You already mentioned the, uh, oxygenevolution reaction, which is part"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1013.565,"endTime":1016.415,"body":"of the whole electrolysis process."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1016.925,"endTime":1021.125,"body":"Um, why did you look at theoxygen evolution reaction and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1021.125,"endTime":1023.555,"body":"not the, the, uh, hydrogen side?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1025.535,"endTime":1027.335,"body":"Usama: yeah, that's areally good question."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1027.455,"endTime":1032.855,"body":"Okay, so water electrolysis reactionis really simple in theory that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1033.335,"endTime":1038.915,"body":"water dissociates into hydrogen, aoxygen, but the real, uh, but it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1038.915,"endTime":1041.615,"body":"very difficult to efficiently do it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1042.995,"endTime":1045.665,"body":"The bottleneck is oxygenevolution reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1046.415,"endTime":1050.615,"body":"It's where the most of the oilpotential and efficiency loss"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1050.615,"endTime":1051.035,"body":"happens."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1051.815,"endTime":1053.255,"body":"So that's a really big problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1053.285,"endTime":1058.205,"body":"That's why I am investigating OER, uh,is equilibrium potential is quite high."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1058.685,"endTime":1062.195,"body":"Uh, then the hydrogen evolution reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1062.405,"endTime":1066.155,"body":"So we need to tackle this problemfirst so the, so we can, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1066.155,"endTime":1068.15,"body":"make the other process efficient."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1068.99,"endTime":1074.09,"body":"That's why we chose to do, uh,investigation on OER, specifically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1074.09,"endTime":1075.89,"body":"on IRO to iridium dioxide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1075.92,"endTime":1077.24,"body":"That's I have already explained."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1077.6,"endTime":1084.32,"body":"Then we can come to the, okay, so you havewater and you want to have the oxygen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1085.08,"endTime":1089.55,"body":"Let's define the first point ispoint A, and the second is point B."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1089.55,"endTime":1091.5,"body":"And you have to go from point A to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1091.5,"endTime":1093.45,"body":"point B. It can have."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1093.945,"endTime":1095.925,"body":"Multiple ways to go there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1095.985,"endTime":1098.535,"body":"It can be just straight line,it can be just, you go hay"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1098.535,"endTime":1100.305,"body":"wiring all the way around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1100.755,"endTime":1101.955,"body":"So it can be anything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1102.405,"endTime":1106.995,"body":"That's a very naive example,but one can understand from it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1107.175,"endTime":1111.435,"body":"So in one part of our work, wesystematically compared the conventional"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1111.675,"endTime":1115.305,"body":"O mechanism, which were, uh, alreadypresent in the previous studies."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1115.725,"endTime":1118.425,"body":"For example, mononuclear,bifunctional, et cetera."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1118.425,"endTime":1122.025,"body":"There are, um, I thinkseven uh, mechanisms,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1122.377,"endTime":1124.057,"body":"Kevin: the mechanism for how the."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1124.747,"endTime":1128.287,"body":"Oxygen evolution reactiontakes place on the catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1128.347,"endTime":1129.817,"body":"Usama: how the oxygen evolve."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1129.817,"endTime":1130.807,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1130.807,"endTime":1134.047,"body":"In simple words, how the oxygenevolves on iridium dioxide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1134.047,"endTime":1135.367,"body":"1 1 0 surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1135.727,"endTime":1144.157,"body":"So yeah, even there are, uh, reactionmechanisms for OER for iridium dioxide,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1144.157,"endTime":1145.987,"body":"of course, but it's not settled yet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1146.797,"endTime":1149.637,"body":"Due to, there are a lot ofcontradictory reports in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1149.637,"endTime":1151.737,"body":"literature about the mechanisms."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1151.767,"endTime":1152.037,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1152.037,"endTime":1156.007,"body":"One says this OER willhappen by this mechanism?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1156.337,"endTime":1158.647,"body":"Other says, no, this willhappen by this mechanism."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1158.677,"endTime":1162.577,"body":"So there's not a consensusin the, uh, reports."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1163.117,"endTime":1165.277,"body":"And also about the rate determining step."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1165.697,"endTime":1168.047,"body":"It was always related to the formation or."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1169.607,"endTime":1175.067,"body":"I haven't told you about the simplistic,simplistic mechanism of the OER it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1175.437,"endTime":1177.597,"body":"It is four electron proton transfers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1178.527,"endTime":1182.397,"body":"So there are three intermediateswhich needs to be formed O"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1182.817,"endTime":1185.607,"body":"then O Then the O2 dissolve."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1185.667,"endTime":1187.287,"body":"That's a simple mono nuclear mechanisms."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1187.767,"endTime":1193.647,"body":"Kevin: That, that is, uh, how manyelectrons are used up in this process?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1194.381,"endTime":1194.681,"body":"Usama: Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1194.81,"endTime":1196.91,"body":"to make, uh, oxygen from a water."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1197.27,"endTime":1198.86,"body":"So it's four step process."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1199.19,"endTime":1204.95,"body":"Water dissociates into OH, then thiso dis dissociates into O. Then the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1204.95,"endTime":1206.385,"body":"O, then the, another water attacks."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1207.14,"endTime":1213.14,"body":"So it makes OOH intermediate, thenOO combines to make oxygen molecule"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1213.38,"endTime":1214.94,"body":"and there's a release of one proton."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1215.18,"endTime":1218.54,"body":"Kevin: Okay, and each of thesesteps consume some electrons."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1218.69,"endTime":1219.38,"body":"And that's in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1219.65,"endTime":1222.26,"body":"Usama: electron and protonsand release some proton."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1222.38,"endTime":1222.65,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1223.28,"endTime":1224.57,"body":"So that's the process."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1225.07,"endTime":1225.4,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1225.4,"endTime":1230.05,"body":"So what we did, we tried toexplore all those mechanisms on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1230.05,"endTime":1231.79,"body":"different surface configurations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1232.3,"endTime":1232.48,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1232.48,"endTime":1237.82,"body":"What I mean by surface configurationis that which surface of idiom dioxide"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1237.82,"endTime":1243.04,"body":"1 1 0 facet is thermodynamically morestable and that can be find out by."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1244.285,"endTime":1245.665,"body":"Surface four bed diagram."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1245.665,"endTime":1251.095,"body":"So we found out, and we, we found outthat, uh, the most thermodynamical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1251.115,"endTime":1257.425,"body":"stable surface bases are from fullyhydroxylated to the oxygen covered."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1257.425,"endTime":1261.055,"body":"Or it can be either, uh, OOH terminated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1261.565,"endTime":1266.125,"body":"So even though we find out that it, itwould be a mixed, uh, mixed surface,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1266.125,"endTime":1268.83,"body":"that would be the most stable surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1268.83,"endTime":1271.115,"body":"But we chose the other onealso to see, okay, what."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1271.935,"endTime":1275.025,"body":"If we change the surfaceenvironment, what happens?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1275.445,"endTime":1279.405,"body":"So we chose four different surfaces,which I have, uh, told you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1280.357,"endTime":1284.427,"body":"Kevin: What are the main differencesbetween these uh, surfaces?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1285.427,"endTime":1285.607,"body":"Usama: okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1285.607,"endTime":1287.497,"body":"One can be fully hydroxylated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1287.497,"endTime":1291.862,"body":"In means more hydroxylated,one can be partly hydroxylated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1292.387,"endTime":1294.547,"body":"Then there can be only oxygen covered."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1295.177,"endTime":1298.177,"body":"There's one more, whichcan be OO terminated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1298.177,"endTime":1304.357,"body":"That's partly O terminated, so we needto, we wanted to see the effect of those."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1304.507,"endTime":1307.477,"body":"If we change the surface environment,what happens with the activity of the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1307.702,"endTime":1307.922,"body":"OER?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1308.489,"endTime":1308.779,"body":"Okay,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1308.814,"endTime":1313.824,"body":"so we chose the surfaces and did allthe mechanisms investigated to gmx"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1314.094,"endTime":1316.674,"body":"the descriptor and found, find out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1316.914,"endTime":1318.504,"body":"Found out all the."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1319.884,"endTime":1323.364,"body":"What, what would, what were thedifferences in those mechanisms"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1323.484,"endTime":1326.064,"body":"on those surfaces, but."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1326.694,"endTime":1330.984,"body":"There was another pathway we includedin the second part of our paper,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1331.104,"endTime":1332.874,"body":"which is known as Walden type pathway."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1333.534,"endTime":1338.964,"body":"This term comes from the homogeneouscatalysis, the S two reaction where the,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1339.234,"endTime":1345.297,"body":"uh, reactant comes and where it productgoes out in the simultaneous, uh, step"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1345.537,"endTime":1350.337,"body":"at 180 db, but in heterogeneous catalysisin which we work, it's different."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1350.337,"endTime":1353.457,"body":"It's, it does not happen at the 180degree, but the process is the same."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1353.457,"endTime":1355.497,"body":"Reactant counseling product goes out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1356.052,"endTime":1358.092,"body":"So that's why we callit Walden type pathway."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1358.152,"endTime":1359.652,"body":"It's not Walden inversion."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1359.802,"endTime":1361.962,"body":"So it, the process is the same."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1362.522,"endTime":1367.292,"body":"And the second thing, mostly inthe previous studies, this iridiium"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1367.312,"endTime":1371.302,"body":"surface site becomes vacant wheneverthe, whenever the product is formed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1372.187,"endTime":1376.127,"body":"Is formed, there will be a vacantside, but in this reaction, a Walden"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1376.177,"endTime":1380.307,"body":"type pathway, in this mechanism,it won't be the vacant side."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1380.487,"endTime":1383.607,"body":"It will always be because thereactant is coming in, product"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1383.607,"endTime":1386.697,"body":"is going out, so there's nospace for to become vacant side."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1387.054,"endTime":1389.599,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, it replaces it directly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1390.054,"endTime":1392.514,"body":"Usama: yeah, so that wasthesis of our paper that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1393.234,"endTime":1398.064,"body":"This, uh, mechanisms reallyenhances the catalytic activity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1398.164,"endTime":1403.174,"body":"And that's implicate that the, theOER on eating dioxide may not proceed"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1403.384,"endTime":1407.184,"body":"purely through the kind of classicalmechanisms we have assumed for years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1407.794,"endTime":1412.579,"body":"But through this simultaneousdesorption absorption of, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1412.609,"endTime":1415.034,"body":"product O2 and reactant H2O."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1416.194,"endTime":1419.769,"body":"Pathway, uh, no one as Wal typepathway, which is thermo, dynamically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1420.904,"endTime":1421.594,"body":"and kinetically favorable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1422.224,"endTime":1426.714,"body":"And we explored with the methods,to support our study, we use"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1426.714,"endTime":1430.874,"body":"the methods and DFD calculationwhich was implemented in vast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1431.759,"endTime":1435.869,"body":"And we explored not only thethermodynamics, but also the kinetics"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1435.869,"endTime":1438.719,"body":"through the NA band calculations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1439.409,"endTime":1446.429,"body":"And we also included the solvation andgrand canonical effects, uh, to mimic"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1446.429,"endTime":1449.009,"body":"the electrochemical environment and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1449.689,"endTime":1450.839,"body":"Catalytic activity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1451.019,"endTime":1454.619,"body":"I have already mentioned thatit was, uh, calculated through"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1454.889,"endTime":1459.479,"body":"the gmex, uh, descriptor, whichwas proposed by my supervisor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1460.049,"endTime":1464.129,"body":"Uh, one can read about an ACScatalysis paper to find out why is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1464.129,"endTime":1468.554,"body":"it better, uh, than the conventionalthermodynamic over potential as a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1468.554,"endTime":1469.199,"body":"descriptor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1469.994,"endTime":1474.374,"body":"Kevin: So it replaces in yourcalculations, uh, descriptor that was"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1474.384,"endTime":1482.794,"body":"previously used, and now, uh, yoursupervisor proposed this, GX Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1483.184,"endTime":1483.574,"body":"Usama: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1483.814,"endTime":1488.644,"body":"Kevin: To better, describethe reaction mechanism."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1489.101,"endTime":1490.196,"body":"Usama: no, the catalytic"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1490.196,"endTime":1490.916,"body":"activities."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1491.636,"endTime":1496.976,"body":"So for, yeah, before mostlythermodynamic or potential was"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1496.976,"endTime":1500.396,"body":"used, which just relies on singleintermediate, which is the highest."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1500.756,"endTime":1504.686,"body":"Or we can say the potential dependentstep, which is the highest one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1505.226,"endTime":1509.366,"body":"Or we can say the, which takes, uh,most of the energy or requires the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1509.366,"endTime":1512.666,"body":"most of the energy to, uh, proceed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1512.996,"endTime":1518.236,"body":"But this gmex is especially because it,it does not only rely on thermodynamics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1519.211,"endTime":1522.211,"body":"Also approximates the kinetics into it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1522.451,"endTime":1524.971,"body":"And it, it does not relyon, just on a single step."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1525.211,"endTime":1527.211,"body":"It takes, it can take multiple steps."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1527.211,"endTime":1531.801,"body":"So it kind of span model, uh, activitycatalytic activity descriptor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1532.221,"endTime":1535.941,"body":"So we use this one and found outthat the Walden type pathways"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1535.951,"endTime":1539.036,"body":"provides a better catalytic activitythan the conventional mechanisms."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1539.737,"endTime":1540.067,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1540.067,"endTime":1540.667,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1540.907,"endTime":1546.697,"body":"So you basically use this descriptorthen to improve your calculations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1547.822,"endTime":1552.223,"body":"Usama: Um, no, that's just a descriptor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1552.283,"endTime":1558.823,"body":"What improves our calculation is theDFT calculation and how we deal with it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1559.253,"endTime":1562.013,"body":"We get the energies and wecalculate the free energies and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1562.063,"endTime":1563.713,"body":"by using those free energies."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1564.088,"endTime":1568.188,"body":"We use, uh, this descriptor gmexand find, found out which one is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1568.188,"endTime":1570.008,"body":"providing better catalytic activity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1570.128,"endTime":1570.458,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1572.078,"endTime":1574.838,"body":"Usama: it's providing, it's betterfor the screening, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1575.153,"endTime":1575.663,"body":"Kevin: Oh, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1576.293,"endTime":1580.643,"body":"Yeah, this whole electrochemistryis, uh, rather new for me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1580.643,"endTime":1587.813,"body":"I, I just did, uh, uh, conventionalhomogeneous catalysis in, in my PhD."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1588.306,"endTime":1590.856,"body":"Usama: It is also new,but I cannot say anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1591.186,"endTime":1592.236,"body":"It's new to me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1592.236,"endTime":1596.946,"body":"It was new to me three years ago, butnow I can say, okay, uh, I'm not new."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1598.476,"endTime":1598.656,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1598.716,"endTime":1604.896,"body":"But it, that also shows that, uh,one can relatively quickly learn"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1605.376,"endTime":1609.306,"body":"new things and then actually becomean expert in this, like, like you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1609.306,"endTime":1611.106,"body":"did with this electrochemistry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1613.281,"endTime":1616.986,"body":"and, and, um, for future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1616.986,"endTime":1617.046,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1618.216,"endTime":1622.716,"body":"Applications of this, did you alreadyalso validate your calculations in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1622.716,"endTime":1629.976,"body":"lab or are you collaborating with otherlabs to see if, um, the mechanism,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1630.126,"endTime":1636.126,"body":"uh, you looked at is actually thenwhat's happening also in, in the,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1639.126,"endTime":1644.741,"body":"Usama: Not directly, but there are somestudies which shows the formation of, or,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1644.746,"endTime":1653.166,"body":"or support these results and also also thechange of potential, uh, determining step."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1653.166,"endTime":1657.546,"body":"That's, that's, that's the game changerbecause most of the studies in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1657.546,"endTime":1664.011,"body":"previous, uh, era was on the formationand decomposition of OOH intermediate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1664.281,"endTime":1669.877,"body":"But in our case it was about the formationof our decomposition of O intermediate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1670.267,"endTime":1672.397,"body":"So that's really changed the game."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1673.417,"endTime":1677.917,"body":"And I have, uh, explored alittle bit in the literature."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1677.977,"endTime":1682.672,"body":"There are some studies which really showsthat there's a formation of O So we are,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1682.732,"endTime":1686.422,"body":"we are right on track, but we haven'tyet collaborated with the experiment"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1686.422,"endTime":1688.492,"body":"list to really find out or validate this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1689.692,"endTime":1690.052,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1690.472,"endTime":1690.832,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1690.832,"endTime":1692.392,"body":"And that's already promising then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1692.962,"endTime":1699.027,"body":"And um, now when yousee these calculations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1699.027,"endTime":1703.322,"body":"What is your next step inimproving the catalyst?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1706.407,"endTime":1710.427,"body":"Usama: That's an interesting questionbecause I can share my experience,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1710.427,"endTime":1718.227,"body":"uh, using not ai, but uh, data scienceor analytic data analytics schemes or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1718.227,"endTime":1725.037,"body":"techniques to find out the same catalyticactivity on a reaction known as nitrogen"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1725.037,"endTime":1731.666,"body":"oxidation reaction, which is basically,um, that conversion of nitrogen to the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1731.666,"endTime":1736.376,"body":"nitrate from the air by usingelectrochemical processes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1736.376,"endTime":1741.416,"body":"But the caveat is that thatprocess, uh, requires 10 steps."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1742.166,"endTime":1748.646,"body":"Just like we for the OER post four stepfor electron, put on, set it, it is 10."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1748.676,"endTime":1752.036,"body":"So it's really huge if you, if youstart doing the DFT calculation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1752.036,"endTime":1753.866,"body":"So it's, uh, too much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1754.721,"endTime":1755.291,"body":"For that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1755.681,"endTime":1757.841,"body":"And just imagine if you'redoing with a different surface"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1757.841,"endTime":1759.371,"body":"complication, so that's not just 10."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1759.701,"endTime":1762.161,"body":"So that will become 40 andyou need to explore more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1762.161,"endTime":1764.651,"body":"If you have a big facespace, then you need more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1764.921,"endTime":1767.501,"body":"So it's a lot hell, alot of, uh, calculations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1767.583,"endTime":1771.506,"body":"Kevin: But that's also for thisreaction, really interesting because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1771.506,"endTime":1776.156,"body":"it's basically then electrifyingthe Haber-Bosch process, right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1776.906,"endTime":1782.486,"body":"which also contributes to I think,2% of the worldwide emissions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1783.086,"endTime":1784.196,"body":"And that's huge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1784.196,"endTime":1786.956,"body":"So if you could cut this that, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1788.111,"endTime":1788.501,"body":"Usama: Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1788.834,"endTime":1793.939,"body":"so basically in this project, we usethis data analytics, and statistical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1793.939,"endTime":1799.369,"body":"methods to screen and analyze thishuge amount of data that we produce"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1799.609,"endTime":1801.319,"body":"using a data-driven methodology."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1801.919,"endTime":1806.089,"body":"So this allowed us toidentify design criteria."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1806.689,"endTime":1812.259,"body":"Predict cases where the selectivitytowards NOR is greater than 90%, or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1812.319,"endTime":1817.359,"body":"in our case, we found out the 98% incomparison with site reaction OER,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1817.389,"endTime":1819.249,"body":"because that's a bad guy there too."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1819.729,"endTime":1825.069,"body":"OER is, uh, also a bad guide therebecause it is a bottleneck process"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1825.129,"endTime":1829.449,"body":"because it falls in the same potentialwindow that is thermo dynamically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1830.049,"endTime":1832.129,"body":"and kinetically favored over the NOR."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1832.179,"endTime":1832.359,"body":"So"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1832.359,"endTime":1832.719,"body":"Kevin: Hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1833.634,"endTime":1837.924,"body":"So in get, in that case, you want toavoid the oxygen evolution reaction,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1838.494,"endTime":1844.404,"body":"whereas in the, uh, water electrolyzers,you want to have the oxygen evolution"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1844.404,"endTime":1845.719,"body":"reaction as fast as possible."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1846.432,"endTime":1850.062,"body":"Usama: yeah, we need to compress it ormake it more efficient so it does not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1850.422,"endTime":1857.592,"body":"get lot of electricity, uh, or the heatand any other losses so we can have more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1857.882,"endTime":1858.302,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1859.442,"endTime":1859.982,"body":"And in the."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1861.147,"endTime":1862.587,"body":"Nitrogen oxidation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1862.587,"endTime":1863.787,"body":"You want to avoid it?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1865.542,"endTime":1865.902,"body":"Usama: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1866.022,"endTime":1868.572,"body":"In nitrogen oxidationreaction, we need to avoid it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1869.177,"endTime":1874.842,"body":"So, so it's, it's, it's not a rule ofthumb, but it's obvious that if you want"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1874.842,"endTime":1876.372,"body":"something, you need to suppress the other."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1877.032,"endTime":1878.622,"body":"So, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1878.682,"endTime":1886.242,"body":"So I would say that these statistical orAI methods are really guiding chemistry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1887.232,"endTime":1889.122,"body":"and we were, we are moving towards."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1889.677,"endTime":1893.757,"body":"Uh, data-driven discoveryfrom trial and error method."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1894.237,"endTime":1897.267,"body":"It's not trial and error method anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1897.717,"endTime":1904.317,"body":"We can quickly find or identifypromising candidates, um, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1904.317,"endTime":1906.987,"body":"focus experimental efforts more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1907.692,"endTime":1908.022,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1908.862,"endTime":1909.072,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1909.072,"endTime":1909.552,"body":"I think that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1909.552,"endTime":1913.152,"body":"is really a huge deal for thechemical research because."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1914.562,"endTime":1921.072,"body":"Chemical research compared to other, uh,fields is very expensive because you need"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1921.072,"endTime":1927.942,"body":"a hell lot of, um, chemicals, materials,also the instrumentation, and if you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1927.942,"endTime":1934.602,"body":"can already narrow down the experimentsyou have to do with AI by your data"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1934.602,"endTime":1939.822,"body":"driven approaches, that already makesthis whole research more cost efficient"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1940.035,"endTime":1941.025,"body":"and faster probably."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1941.967,"endTime":1942.267,"body":"Usama: Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1942.717,"endTime":1947.247,"body":"So currently, we'll, we can say thatwe are starting to use AI models to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1947.247,"endTime":1951.777,"body":"analyze large data sets just like wedid and predict catalytic performance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1952.317,"endTime":1955.767,"body":"But in the near future, we'llmove, move towards generative"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1955.767,"endTime":1957.417,"body":"AI for catalyst discovery."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1957.987,"endTime":1965.337,"body":"Um, I'm excited, I'm where models don'tjust analyze, but also propose new"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1965.337,"endTime":1967.977,"body":"materials with targeted, uh, properties."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1968.562,"endTime":1968.782,"body":"Kevin: Oh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1969.162,"endTime":1971.142,"body":"Usama: That's too earlyto say, but that would"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1971.487,"endTime":1971.697,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1971.982,"endTime":1973.332,"body":"Usama: Uh, we'll see that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1973.692,"endTime":1974.232,"body":"Kevin: I mean, we,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1974.232,"endTime":1978.852,"body":"we have seen how fast these generativemodels for texts evolved over the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1978.852,"endTime":1984.192,"body":"past few years, and so I'm alsofairly confident that this will go to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1984.192,"endTime":1985.752,"body":"chemistry and improve the research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1985.812,"endTime":1986.052,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1986.635,"endTime":1987.055,"body":"Usama: Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1987.655,"endTime":1992.495,"body":"Secondly, I would say that the data,data-driven methodologies for screening"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1992.495,"endTime":1998.555,"body":"is really good because instead of,um, testing Catalyst one by one, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1998.585,"endTime":2003.745,"body":"the trend is more towards automatedcomputation pipelines that can evaluate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2003.745,"endTime":2007.315,"body":"thousands of materials virtually andnarrowing down the best candidates"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2007.315,"endTime":2009.595,"body":"before experimental validation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2009.925,"endTime":2013.495,"body":"That would be a nice techniqueto have, uh, in the near future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2013.915,"endTime":2016.855,"body":"The guys are really allalready working on it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2017.545,"endTime":2024.925,"body":"So, and the last one, which you,which is really, I'm not seeing any"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2024.925,"endTime":2028.285,"body":"near future, but we'll see one dayit's about the indication with the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2028.285,"endTime":2030.655,"body":"industry, uh, using the digital twins."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2031.255,"endTime":2035.755,"body":"So you can expect that AI and modeling."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2036.205,"endTime":2040.525,"body":"Can continuously optimize theperformance and durability in real time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2041.245,"endTime":2044.575,"body":"This will connect to radicalwork directly to the industrial"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2044.575,"endTime":2045.355,"body":"applications."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2045.955,"endTime":2051.325,"body":"So to conclude this one, I would saythat I believe the next decade, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2051.33,"endTime":2060.94,"body":"will be we'll see theory, AI experiment,um, converging into a single powerful"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2061.08,"endTime":2062.82,"body":"engine for catalyst discovery."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2063.775,"endTime":2068.215,"body":"And that would really accelerate thediscovery, uh, which will of course"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2068.215,"endTime":2069.625,"body":"shape our technologies for the future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2069.835,"endTime":2070.885,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2071.455,"endTime":2077.515,"body":"Um, there's also, I think in, in theUK it was, uh, a startup that is trying"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2077.515,"endTime":2084.685,"body":"to implement also automated labs whereyou basically have, uh, a reaction you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2084.685,"endTime":2091.25,"body":"want to optimize and then you not onlylet AI choose which reactions to do."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2091.9,"endTime":2098.08,"body":"But you also have a semi, or in theircase, uh, what they want to achieve is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2098.08,"endTime":2103.78,"body":"a fully, fully automated lab where youcan also do the screening reactions"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2104.05,"endTime":2107.65,"body":"of these proposed, um, parameters."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2107.65,"endTime":2113.38,"body":"You can just do them with robots, andthen you just have to basically give"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2113.38,"endTime":2117.55,"body":"the right chemicals into the system,and then it'll combine everything in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2117.55,"endTime":2119.8,"body":"the way you want it, and then you get."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2120.22,"endTime":2125.77,"body":"Data is so much faster compared when youhave to have to go to the lab yourself"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2125.77,"endTime":2127.66,"body":"and then do all the experiments and then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2128.08,"endTime":2129.82,"body":"analyze them and yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2130.18,"endTime":2130.42,"body":"So"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2132.01,"endTime":2136.45,"body":"Usama: But I would also like to add herean important note that we should not,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2137.02,"endTime":2139.485,"body":"we should also be realistic about ai."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2140.08,"endTime":2145.585,"body":"Today in Catalysis, um, because itis still limited by the quality of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2145.585,"endTime":2151.825,"body":"data and, and it does not capture allthe parameters, uh, we require, so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2152.275,"endTime":2156.595,"body":"Yeah, but we should be optimisticbecause in the near we are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2156.595,"endTime":2158.575,"body":"living in the broad era of ai."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2158.635,"endTime":2163.915,"body":"There are three areas, narrow era, uh,narrow ai, broad ai, and general ai."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2164.155,"endTime":2169.555,"body":"So we are in the broad ai and theresearcher says that in a around 2040"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2169.645,"endTime":2173.111,"body":"or around that, uh, 2040 or 2045."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2174.07,"endTime":2176.08,"body":"We will be in the general ai."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2176.26,"endTime":2180.22,"body":"So that would be the area in whichwe'll see the digital twins and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2180.22,"endTime":2184.84,"body":"all the generative AI will be likethe cognition of ai, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2185.26,"endTime":2190.39,"body":"So for these days, I guess everybodyknows about the super intelligence."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2190.96,"endTime":2191.17,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2191.17,"endTime":2193.84,"body":"GBD is working on that andall that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2194.2,"endTime":2196.54,"body":"We'll see that I, I want to see that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2197.545,"endTime":2197.845,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2198.055,"endTime":2198.515,"body":"Usama: how it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2199.225,"endTime":2202.555,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, it's super interesting,but also kind of scary when you think"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2202.555,"endTime":2209.515,"body":"about it because all this researchthat chemists are doing now then could"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2210.175,"endTime":2217.345,"body":"to a huge degree also be done by, uh,machines and these AI models, which,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2219.685,"endTime":2223.915,"body":"yeah, make a lot of jobsthen obsolete because."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2224.68,"endTime":2229.75,"body":"Why would you hire, uh, chemistsand then do all this, this work"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2229.75,"endTime":2231.58,"body":"when an AI can do it for you?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2231.58,"endTime":2238.84,"body":"So I think that's also, yeah, willbe very, very difficult to have all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2238.84,"endTime":2243.484,"body":"this AI alongside the humans, I guess."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2244.013,"endTime":2250.193,"body":"Usama: Yeah, that's augmented intelligencewhere human and the human and computer"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2250.193,"endTime":2254.063,"body":"works together to achieve the fair or."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2254.783,"endTime":2260.693,"body":"Uh, I would say the real ai,like in the general ai, they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2260.693,"endTime":2263.303,"body":"need to pass five pillars."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2263.453,"endTime":2264.533,"body":"I read about it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2264.743,"endTime":2269.123,"body":"I was, and because these days I'm alsoreading a lot more about ai because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2269.123,"endTime":2274.073,"body":"you need to, you need to have theseskills if you want to stay in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2274.133,"endTime":2276.563,"body":"game, otherwise you will struggle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2277.103,"endTime":2279.923,"body":"So these are, you needto be interdisciplinary."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2279.923,"endTime":2283.348,"body":"You cannot, you can be, butyou will, you will feel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2284.318,"endTime":2287.138,"body":"I would say alone after some time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2287.678,"endTime":2288.158,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2288.158,"endTime":2288.878,"body":"So it's better."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2288.878,"endTime":2292.748,"body":"So there are five pillars,and it's about AI ethics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2293.528,"endTime":2301.268,"body":"It needs to be fair, robust, and, uh,explainable transparency and privacy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2302.048,"endTime":2308.288,"body":"So I would just focus on the biasnessbecause it depends on the, uh, data"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2308.528,"endTime":2310.418,"body":"that the biasness comes from the data."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2310.763,"endTime":2315.173,"body":"So that's really a big problem because it,you, you need to feed the data into the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2315.263,"endTime":2315.923,"body":"model, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2316.883,"endTime":2320.783,"body":"So if the data is already biased, soyou'll get reserves what you want to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2320.783,"endTime":2324.053,"body":"see, that would not be unbiased data."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2324.353,"endTime":2325.913,"body":"So that's, that's a big problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2326.303,"endTime":2330.679,"body":"And there are a lot of more problemsthere in the AI ethics, but the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2330.679,"endTime":2334.099,"body":"researchers will come up withsomething, something to avoid these"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2334.369,"endTime":2334.549,"body":"Kevin: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2334.789,"endTime":2334.969,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2334.969,"endTime":2336.679,"body":"It's a very quickly moving field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2336.779,"endTime":2341.639,"body":"I'm excited to see what will happenin this field that, uh, will probably"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2342.179,"endTime":2344.658,"body":"bring some huge, findings in the future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2346.394,"endTime":2347.289,"body":"Usama: Oh yeah, sure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2348.519,"endTime":2357.519,"body":"Kevin: Okay, so to wrap up this, uh,discussion, as a final question, what"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2357.519,"endTime":2359.829,"body":"is your favorite discovery in chemistry?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2362.143,"endTime":2366.913,"body":"Usama: Uh, that's a,that's a tricky question."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2368.083,"endTime":2372.433,"body":"I can easily picksomething from Catalysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2372.493,"endTime":2377.413,"body":"Uh, but honestly, uh, whatreally fascinates me is the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2377.413,"endTime":2382.063,"body":"discovery of neurotransmitters,uh, like dopamine and serotonin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2382.293,"endTime":2382.583,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2383.263,"endTime":2387.103,"body":"Usama: These are the molecules thatlike literally shape how we feel, how we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2387.103,"endTime":2390.043,"body":"connect, uh, how we experience the world."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2390.553,"endTime":2395.593,"body":"So as someone who spends so muchtime studying molecules, uh, on metal"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2395.593,"endTime":2401.233,"body":"surfaces, I find it fascinating thattiny molecules in our, the brain"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2401.683,"endTime":2406.303,"body":"can drive something as big as humanemotions and intelligence, of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2406.513,"endTime":2410.503,"body":"So it's a reminder thatchemistry isn't just about."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2411.823,"endTime":2412.603,"body":"And reactions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2413.413,"endTime":2414.973,"body":"It's also about who we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2415.188,"endTime":2415.478,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2416.413,"endTime":2417.253,"body":"And that's, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2417.253,"endTime":2417.583,"body":"Usama: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2417.673,"endTime":2418.243,"body":"So yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2418.948,"endTime":2422.308,"body":"Kevin: Great, uh, concludingsentence for this episode."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2422.668,"endTime":2426.658,"body":"Thank you very much for taking the timeand telling me more about your research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2426.989,"endTime":2430.619,"body":"Usama: thank you for having me on thepodcast and I hope I was able to give"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2430.619,"endTime":2435.239,"body":"a glimpse, uh, into the fascinatingworld of theoretical catalysis and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2435.239,"endTime":2437.309,"body":"its potential for shaping the future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2437.629,"endTime":2437.919,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2437.919,"endTime":2438.914,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2439.013,"endTime":2440.903,"body":"Also, thank you for listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2441.683,"endTime":2447.053,"body":"If you like this episode, don't forgetto share it and hit the follow button."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2447.203,"endTime":2448.763,"body":"This really helps the show."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2448.813,"endTime":2453.523,"body":"If you also would like to be partof a future episode, contact me"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2453.703,"endTime":2459.253,"body":"either on LinkedIn or send me anemail to contact@innovateand.com."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2459.529,"endTime":2462.349,"body":"Until next time, keepinnovating and stay curious."}]}