{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":null,"startTime":3,"endTime":5.4,"body":"Kevin: Welcome to Innovate and React."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":6.239,"endTime":11.4,"body":"In this episode, we are diving intothe more personal and professional"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":11.58,"endTime":18.562,"body":"journey of pursuing a PhD beyond justthe science, more what we took away"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":19.042,"endTime":24.477,"body":"from this also, we look back now andsee if it was worth it to do a PhD."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":25.247,"endTime":28.287,"body":"I'm here again with Nicholas Jankowski."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":28.307,"endTime":33.687,"body":"He was already  a guest in one ofthe previous episodes, and for those"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":33.687,"endTime":38.762,"body":"who haven't listened to that episodeyet,  maybe introduce yourself shortly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":40.812,"endTime":41.592,"body":"Nick: Thank you Kevin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":41.712,"endTime":43.602,"body":"Uh, I'm glad to be here again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":43.652,"endTime":44.742,"body":"I'm Nicholas Jankowski."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":44.762,"endTime":48.452,"body":"I studied chemistry in Dortmundand also did my PhD there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":49.002,"endTime":52.782,"body":"My background was organicchemistry, and I've Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":52.782,"endTime":56.972,"body":"Talked about  the topic of myPhD in the previous episode."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":57.274,"endTime":58.534,"body":"Kevin: Thank you for joining me again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":58.917,"endTime":64.827,"body":"I also studied in Dortmund, but not inthe, uh, chemical department, actually"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":64.827,"endTime":69.717,"body":"in the chemical engineering departmentwhere the industrial chemistry is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":69.717,"endTime":75.957,"body":"And I. Technically, I also didorganic chemistry a lot, but, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":76.167,"endTime":82.417,"body":"yeah, with the more, uh, industrialdriven background and applications"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":82.447,"endTime":84.697,"body":"of catalysis in the most case."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":85.477,"endTime":90.367,"body":"So in this episode, we wantto talk a bit more about the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":90.367,"endTime":94.057,"body":"motivations, uh, why to do a PhD and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":95.137,"endTime":97.987,"body":"Maybe even, let's go a bit back further."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":98.017,"endTime":100.272,"body":"Why did you start studying chemistry?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":102.532,"endTime":107.077,"body":"Nick: Honestly, it was kindof a, a fight  in me, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":107.182,"endTime":109.662,"body":"studying chemistry, biology, or."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":110.392,"endTime":116.032,"body":"I was, uh, also front of computer scienceand, um, yeah, then I applied to multiple,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":116.092,"endTime":119.362,"body":"uh, universities for multiple subjects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":120.142,"endTime":123.592,"body":"And then, well, Mond, I lived there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":123.982,"endTime":126.202,"body":"Uh, they, uh, responded and I was like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":126.937,"endTime":129.127,"body":"Do I want to, uh, really study chemistry?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":129.127,"endTime":132.907,"body":"Then I got the results from the othersback  it was possible to, to study"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":132.997,"endTime":137.257,"body":"most of the things, and yeah, then Iwas like, Hmm, what do I really want?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":137.257,"endTime":140.737,"body":"I was back at square one and yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":141.037,"endTime":145.927,"body":"Then  I really thought about it andwas a fascinating thing about chemistry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":145.927,"endTime":151.117,"body":"is, um, that's maybe also why I was,uh, then in the organic department."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":151.597,"endTime":157.867,"body":"You have compound one, it's whatever,uh, clear liquid, also you make"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":157.867,"endTime":160.777,"body":"a reaction with it and then youhave something totally different."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":161.047,"endTime":164.347,"body":"White powder dunno or crystals and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":164.347,"endTime":167.257,"body":"And you Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":167.257,"endTime":169.957,"body":"Like mo in most cases brownsludge you are, so Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":170.317,"endTime":175.627,"body":"And yeah, but that's kind offascinating me and that's was the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":175.627,"endTime":176.977,"body":"reason why I studied chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":178.387,"endTime":179.047,"body":"How about you?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":179.242,"endTime":183.352,"body":"Kevin: For me, it was, uh, betweenchemistry and physics, actually,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":183.952,"endTime":189.472,"body":"like in school I enjoyed mathsand, uh, physics, chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":189.592,"endTime":194.332,"body":"I couldn't do the focus course onchemistry because there were unfortunately"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":194.332,"endTime":196.682,"body":"not enough students for this course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":196.682,"endTime":203.282,"body":"So I had to choose, uh, biology,but it's always this, this natural"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":203.282,"endTime":204.992,"body":"science that stuck with me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":204.992,"endTime":210.212,"body":"And then, uh, we had actually alsoin TU Dortmund the visiting day"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":210.212,"endTime":214.502,"body":"where you could just, uh, go thereand get some informations about"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":214.502,"endTime":217.652,"body":"all the courses, the lectures, and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":218.957,"endTime":224.477,"body":"In the chemistry department, they reallyfocused on applications and that you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":224.477,"endTime":230.027,"body":"really had a lot of lab courses and noteverything just theoretical from books,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":230.747,"endTime":237.557,"body":"and that sounded way more interestingbecause in my opinion, when you do"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":237.557,"endTime":240.317,"body":"something and apply what you have learned."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":240.752,"endTime":246.302,"body":"It really sticks in the memory inopposition to when you just Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":246.302,"endTime":251.072,"body":"Have everything theoretical and yeah,that's, that's why I started then with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":251.072,"endTime":256.352,"body":"chemistry and yeah, we had a lot of,uh, lab courses, so that was, was great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":257.672,"endTime":257.942,"body":"Nick: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":258.452,"endTime":262.272,"body":"One, one together, if I recallto correctly, we did our"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":262.272,"endTime":263.322,"body":"first one together, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":264.372,"endTime":264.522,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":264.522,"endTime":268.317,"body":"The first main, inorganic, chemistry lab."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":268.377,"endTime":268.617,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":269.182,"endTime":273.982,"body":"And then, I think when we startedit was kind of mandatory to do a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":274.222,"endTime":280.822,"body":"PhD. Nowadays it changed a bit thatyou can also, um, find a job with a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":280.822,"endTime":282.562,"body":"master's, but maybe it was also more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":284.827,"endTime":287.827,"body":"I'm not actually sure if it waslike this, that you couldn't find"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":288.007,"endTime":291.067,"body":"a job otherwise, but that's whata lot of people told us, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":291.427,"endTime":296.167,"body":"That's like, okay, you're doing a PhD,uh, otherwise, uh, you won't find a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":296.167,"endTime":300.277,"body":"job in the industry because you haveto compete with those, uh, people who"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":300.277,"endTime":305.077,"body":"are basically starting after schoolas a lab technician in the industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":305.917,"endTime":310.207,"body":"And yeah, for me it was not reallythat much of a problem because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":310.207,"endTime":313.057,"body":"I, I really like to, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":313.372,"endTime":318.172,"body":"Study all this, uh, chemistry stuffbecause you really can, depending"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":318.172,"endTime":323.302,"body":"on what courses, uh, also explaina lot of stuff from like the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":323.302,"endTime":327.142,"body":"everyday life, which is interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":327.652,"endTime":328.342,"body":"What about you?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":328.432,"endTime":328.702,"body":"Nick: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":329.872,"endTime":330.322,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":331.102,"endTime":332.602,"body":"Doing a PhD. Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":332.662,"endTime":336.922,"body":"So, yeah, like you said, basicallyalso for me, it was told you have to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":336.922,"endTime":341.842,"body":"do a PhD and only this way you canreally go into industry and be  in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":341.842,"endTime":343.972,"body":"research and development and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":343.972,"endTime":345.472,"body":"I think it's, it's stated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":345.847,"endTime":346.387,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":346.387,"endTime":350.857,"body":"So I have coworkers who have amasters and are, are thriving really."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":351.427,"endTime":357.087,"body":"And yeah, I also think that, it's kind ofdepends  in where you are going to work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":357.177,"endTime":360.717,"body":"Uh, in the end,  a PhD givesyou the chance to learn stuff"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":360.717,"endTime":361.947,"body":"you won't do in a master's."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":361.947,"endTime":362.517,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":362.997,"endTime":366.087,"body":"Um, master's thesis is,um, yeah, a lot shorter."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":366.117,"endTime":369.207,"body":"Therefore it's, it has adif different focus area."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":370.062,"endTime":376.032,"body":"And, um, yeah, I think it's, it'sreally, it was a good choice to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":376.032,"endTime":380.862,"body":"do a PhD, um, to, yeah, maybe,uh, go a bit further than that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":381.192,"endTime":384.012,"body":"Um, uh, for me personally,it was a good choice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":384.012,"endTime":389.862,"body":"I really enjoyed it, and the researchpart in it really was a selling point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":389.892,"endTime":395.442,"body":"So, after doing the masters, I was keento do more and yeah, so I, I did the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":395.442,"endTime":401.252,"body":"PhD,  not with a. Bad feeling also,but with really a lot of excitement."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":401.447,"endTime":401.687,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":401.687,"endTime":405.767,"body":"Especially in the beginning of the PhDwhen you get really your own project"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":406.247,"endTime":410.957,"body":"in the Masters, it's, it's always somekind of a side project, of another"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":410.957,"endTime":418.938,"body":"project or mostly, and then you have amore close, uh, supervisor, which is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":419.852,"endTime":423.092,"body":"Usually in our department,it was always a PhD student."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":423.272,"endTime":429.602,"body":"And then, yeah, it's, you're doingyour own thing, but if you have some"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":429.602,"endTime":434.612,"body":"problems, you always have someone tobasically solve the problem for you,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":434.612,"endTime":437.432,"body":"or at least give very good advice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":437.432,"endTime":438.032,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":438.887,"endTime":440.897,"body":"It's less, uh, on your own."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":440.927,"endTime":445.997,"body":"And when you have the PhD, obviously youalso have the professor as the supervisor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":445.997,"endTime":450.527,"body":"And we also had a, uh, groupleader who always had great,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":451.037,"endTime":454.037,"body":"uh, ideas for our projects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":454.547,"endTime":458.087,"body":"But it's really yourown baby, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":458.087,"endTime":462.227,"body":"It's like you have to take careof it and, uh, in the end then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":462.977,"endTime":468.407,"body":"Yeah, you can be proud if stuff works,but I guess we, we will also get into"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":468.422,"endTime":471.437,"body":"the, the stuff that doesn't work and, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":473.057,"endTime":474.139,"body":"Nick: the brown slu, you see?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":474.407,"endTime":476.627,"body":"Kevin: For example, or the,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":477.347,"endTime":477.707,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":477.707,"endTime":480.892,"body":"All these, uh, oxides in NMRs that,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":481.062,"endTime":481.352,"body":"Nick: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":483.797,"endTime":484.397,"body":"talking of ligands, huh?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":487.027,"endTime":490.327,"body":"Yeah, for me in my, in my working group,it was a bit different, uh, actually,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":490.327,"endTime":494.812,"body":"so  the master thesis was done with,uh, the professor as your supervisor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":494.867,"endTime":501.277,"body":"Mr. Krause, he, he also gave  you atopic like, yeah, go figure and do"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":501.277,"endTime":506.127,"body":"this stuff, but you had a closer, um,supervision from him  than in the PhD."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":506.127,"endTime":511.127,"body":"That's, um, yeah, that's the same asyou said, but I think it was a good"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":511.127,"endTime":517.562,"body":"preparation, honestly, for, for PhD toyou really, I. You had your first baby,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":517.622,"endTime":521.702,"body":"you know, you're your first small, maybea, maybe a cat or a dog, you know, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":523.862,"endTime":526.742,"body":"and then, then you've got your PhDand like you said, it's your baby."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":526.742,"endTime":530.252,"body":"You are really, uh, takingcare of it and have to Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":531.662,"endTime":533.672,"body":"You try to not be consumed by it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":533.852,"endTime":533.912,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":535.607,"endTime":541.637,"body":"Yeah, I guess that's also the balanceof work and friends and family is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":541.877,"endTime":547.517,"body":"really a thing because especially inacademia, it's kind of expected of you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":547.517,"endTime":550.367,"body":"that you just basically live in the lab."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":551.192,"endTime":551.482,"body":"Nick: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":551.672,"endTime":551.962,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":552.917,"endTime":557.417,"body":"Kevin: It's not always everywhere,but still you really have to manage"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":557.417,"endTime":558.632,"body":"your time and then you can also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":558.857,"endTime":565.797,"body":"I do it a bit differently, but,um, looking back now did your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":566.277,"endTime":571.732,"body":"expectations, you started thePhD with, did they match reality?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":572.532,"endTime":575.202,"body":"Nick: On expectations to reality,uh, I thought it would be a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":575.202,"endTime":577.362,"body":"lot more straightforward, so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":577.697,"endTime":582.017,"body":"That you have your topic, you knowthe direction, you look into the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":582.017,"endTime":586.007,"body":"literature, then you try to do itin the lab and boom, nothing works."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":586.037,"endTime":586.337,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":586.607,"endTime":589.937,"body":"So you really were the problem solver."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":590.177,"endTime":593.477,"body":"Like troubleshooting is amain skill you should adopt."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":593.847,"endTime":596.997,"body":"The problem with plants is thatthey don't, uh, survive reality."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":597.147,"endTime":603.657,"body":"So you kind of always have to adjust andyou have to take detours and then see"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":603.657,"endTime":608.367,"body":"where you, where you're going to, um,which, which comes to another topic you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":608.367,"endTime":614.107,"body":"mentioned in the preparation talk beforeour, uh, session, um, something like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":614.677,"endTime":616.867,"body":"Where, where do you draw the line?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":617.767,"endTime":618.187,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":618.427,"endTime":621.847,"body":"Um, yeah, but what, what, butbefore we are going, uh, there,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":622.237,"endTime":623.977,"body":"what's with you expectation?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":623.977,"endTime":624.817,"body":"Was it reality?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":625.057,"endTime":626.617,"body":"Did you gut what you, uh, thought"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":626.642,"endTime":631.814,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, it's similar what you saidthat  first I thought it would be more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":631.814,"endTime":638.594,"body":"or less like a continuation of the masterthesis, but the thing is that the master"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":638.594,"endTime":642.854,"body":"thesis is a much more confined project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":642.854,"endTime":649.464,"body":"I would say you have, uh, really from thebeginning to end somewhat already a way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":649.949,"endTime":654.989,"body":"That should work because usuallythese, uh, master and bachelor thesis"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":654.989,"endTime":662.399,"body":"are projects that are already, yeah,not set to work, but they have been"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":662.399,"endTime":667.259,"body":"thought about before and the probabilitythat they work is it's bit higher."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":667.679,"endTime":672.899,"body":"And in the PhD, um, itwas a bit like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":672.929,"endTime":675.989,"body":"You could also branch out inso many different directions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":676.349,"endTime":682.619,"body":"Because after all it was yourcall and there it really is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":682.619,"endTime":686.759,"body":"Then yeah, as you said, sometimesstuff just doesn't work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":686.759,"endTime":692.699,"body":"You have a plan and uh, you just, forthe optimization, you just run all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":692.699,"endTime":698.189,"body":"the experiments and in the end, yeah,it didn't really go in the direction"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":698.309,"endTime":700.709,"body":"you wanted or you suddenly have a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":701.249,"endTime":707.159,"body":"structural analysis that you want tofind out something and it just takes"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":707.159,"endTime":713.399,"body":"so much time to just find out whatthe site product is and then time"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":713.399,"endTime":715.469,"body":"management again comes, comes to place."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":716.669,"endTime":720.779,"body":"Yeah, that that is really like achallenge that you have to overcome."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":721.049,"endTime":724.349,"body":"And then the master thesis, thatwas not that much of a problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":725.354,"endTime":725.774,"body":"Nick: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":725.864,"endTime":726.704,"body":"Couldn't agree more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":726.734,"endTime":731.414,"body":"Really, it's, uh, that, that you have, uh,in, in the master's, it's, it's a project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":731.414,"endTime":735.224,"body":"You or the professor at least,things will work out and often"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":735.224,"endTime":737.024,"body":"it, it really does, uh Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":737.444,"endTime":740.984,"body":"It's more fleshed out than thetopic of the PhD in the first place."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":741.014,"endTime":741.284,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":741.374,"endTime":742.094,"body":"Couldn't agree more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":742.934,"endTime":743.144,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":743.144,"endTime":743.444,"body":"Also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":743.684,"endTime":749.714,"body":"In the PhD when you really goto new reactions or new stuff, I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":749.714,"endTime":754.424,"body":"was one of the first, uh, peoplein our working group starting to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":754.424,"endTime":756.944,"body":"do actual synthesis for ligands."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":757.694,"endTime":762.374,"body":"Uh, previously, with the oldprofessor of the working group,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":762.374,"endTime":767.024,"body":"professor Behr, the philosophy waswe just take commercially available"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":767.114,"endTime":769.574,"body":"catalysts and do optimizations and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":771.629,"endTime":777.329,"body":"That works great for like catalysisresearch, but when you really want to push"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":777.329,"endTime":782.219,"body":"the limits of reactions, sometimes youhave to also modify the, the catalyst."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":782.219,"endTime":787.439,"body":"And that was what, uh, professor Vogttried to establish in the working"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":787.439,"endTime":791.489,"body":"group again, because he did thisalso in his, uh, previous groups."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":792.269,"endTime":799.259,"body":"And that really was then also a challengebecause I didn't have that much of, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":800.189,"endTime":802.109,"body":"Other people doing the same."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":802.199,"endTime":806.759,"body":"So yeah, I had to, hadto learn, uh, a lot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":807.269,"endTime":812.309,"body":"Um, and yeah, a lot fromprofessor Vogt he taught me a lot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":812.309,"endTime":819.329,"body":"But then, uh, I was also able to gofor one month to the Leibnitz Institute"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":819.329,"endTime":822.029,"body":"for Catalysis in, uh, Rostock."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":822.884,"endTime":828.224,"body":"And there I could really also learnfrom other scientists who are doing this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":828.224,"endTime":834.464,"body":"synthesis catalysis research on, on thatuh, level, which really opened a lot"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":834.464,"endTime":841.424,"body":"of new,  procedures for me, which I sofar had like a idea about how it works."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":841.424,"endTime":844.244,"body":"But this, in this field, thisreally comes to the details."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":845.054,"endTime":847.484,"body":"And yeah, that was also then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":849.104,"endTime":854.924,"body":"A good experience to have basicallyopen up your point of view, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":854.924,"endTime":857.774,"body":"And then, uh, yeah, find out new ways."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":859.124,"endTime":861.554,"body":"Nick: Uh, yeah, thoseexchanges are really great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":861.584,"endTime":864.864,"body":"Uh, I'm really a bit sad thatI didn't have, uh, one yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":865.369,"endTime":868.789,"body":"PhD in the middle of, COVID and, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":868.789,"endTime":874.249,"body":"Then in my last year I couldhave, but then I choose to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":874.249,"endTime":875.599,"body":"finish up my work, you know?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":875.959,"endTime":878.959,"body":"Um, but it would've been anopportunity, which is really great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":879.019,"endTime":880.999,"body":"Uh, those exchanges, uh, don't"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":881.109,"endTime":881.399,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":881.399,"endTime":885.359,"body":"It was actually the monthjust before Covid started."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":887.229,"endTime":887.519,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":889.129,"endTime":890.329,"body":"Nick: great, great timing, huh?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":892.069,"endTime":892.369,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":893.854,"endTime":894.214,"body":"Uh, great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":894.214,"endTime":898.804,"body":"Yeah, my girlfriend, uh, she dida PhD as well and had an exchange,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":898.854,"endTime":901.674,"body":"with Japan, so that was really great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":901.734,"endTime":904.724,"body":"Um, and she still has, friends over there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":904.994,"endTime":906.344,"body":"Uh, we visited last year."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":906.764,"endTime":908.984,"body":"That's once in a lifetime."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":908.984,"endTime":910.724,"body":"Uh, opportunities, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":911.714,"endTime":916.214,"body":"Kevin: Also the, and not, not onlythe scientific exchange, but also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":916.214,"endTime":918.434,"body":"then the, the personal exchanges."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":919.124,"endTime":919.784,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":920.534,"endTime":920.824,"body":"Nick: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":921.644,"endTime":925.574,"body":"Kevin: almost the, the moreimportant thing actually."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":926.604,"endTime":926.894,"body":"Nick: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":927.359,"endTime":931.279,"body":"Uh, that's, also one of the,yeah, most fond memories for me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":931.369,"endTime":936.604,"body":"Um, so the, you, when you do a PhDat a university, you're not only"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":936.604,"endTime":940.234,"body":"doing  the research, but also the,uh, teachings for the new students."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":940.684,"endTime":943.744,"body":"And that was always some kind of, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":944.629,"endTime":946.069,"body":"I really like to do it, really."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":946.169,"endTime":949.889,"body":"I know it's, it's always a bit,you're not working on your PhD, not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":949.889,"endTime":954.719,"body":"on your thesis, not on your topic andso on, but to see how, how they grow"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":954.719,"endTime":961.319,"body":"when you really, try to make, uh,yeah, good teaching and try to, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":962.504,"endTime":966.104,"body":"To the best, give themyour knowledge right then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":966.164,"endTime":970.814,"body":"Then you really see they, um, theythrive and that's really, really great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":970.814,"endTime":974.924,"body":"So one of my most fond memoriesis all the farewell after the main"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":974.924,"endTime":976.784,"body":"practical course in organic chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":976.934,"endTime":977.384,"body":"Like you have this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":978.164,"endTime":981.134,"body":"Great lab was 20 students, whichare, which are assigned to you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":981.494,"endTime":985.664,"body":"And uh, this was always reallytouching moment when they Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":985.664,"endTime":989.624,"body":"Finished up after weeks  ofservice in, in, in there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":990.104,"endTime":993.274,"body":"And also, uh, some of themjoined in after my defense."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":993.324,"endTime":993.594,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":993.594,"endTime":996.294,"body":"Also for me, I reallyenjoyed the teaching too."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":996.804,"endTime":1002.714,"body":"Um, I had a lot of, um, bachelor andmaster students that I supervised during"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1002.714,"endTime":1005.504,"body":"their time, uh, in our working group."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1005.684,"endTime":1012.524,"body":"And also what you said, yeah, that they,in the end, were also very thankful for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1013.124,"endTime":1016.484,"body":"how they got to learn all this stuff and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1017.279,"endTime":1021.159,"body":"That also, yeah, made someconnections that are still lasting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1022.149,"endTime":1022.359,"body":"Nick: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1022.539,"endTime":1026.109,"body":"You really had to seewhere they were going."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1026.169,"endTime":1026.499,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1026.499,"endTime":1031.939,"body":"So,  for me, as a learning, it was alwaysyou've got so many different kind of,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1031.979,"endTime":1037.739,"body":"people who need other input and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1037.739,"endTime":1042.389,"body":"So for, for example, I've gotsome  in my lab who yeah, really."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1042.944,"endTime":1044.714,"body":"Didn't know much about organic chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1044.714,"endTime":1044.954,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1044.954,"endTime":1048.864,"body":"So you really, go back to thebasics and start from, okay, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1048.864,"endTime":1053.244,"body":"have polar groups and nonpolar onesand so on, and really start to, to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1053.244,"endTime":1055.284,"body":"bring them the, the basic knowledge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1055.374,"endTime":1059.184,"body":"And then, uh, they leave the lab andyou're like, whew, that was exhausting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1059.184,"endTime":1062.484,"body":"But it was also great becausethey finally picked it up Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1062.484,"endTime":1063.894,"body":"And could go on  and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1064.149,"endTime":1066.899,"body":"Really,  study chemistryto their full potential."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1067.349,"endTime":1070.459,"body":"Uh, on the other hand, I've hadone student and at the end of his"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1070.459,"endTime":1073.999,"body":"master who was just like, yeah, II need one last practical course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1074.209,"endTime":1075.709,"body":"Please, can, can you do this for me?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1075.709,"endTime":1078.199,"body":"And I was like, yeah, sure,but what do you want to learn?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1078.229,"endTime":1080.989,"body":"And he wasn't even sure himself at first."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1081.559,"endTime":1085.399,"body":"Um, and then we talked about it and itwas clear that it was troubleshooting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1085.849,"endTime":1086.539,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1087.289,"endTime":1091.309,"body":"Yeah, he had projects and, anddid chemistry and always great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1091.609,"endTime":1095.719,"body":"But the troubleshooting part, soI, I really got, uh, got him a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1095.869,"endTime":1100.219,"body":"difficult topic I didn't, look intobefore  but I always wanted to try,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1100.369,"endTime":1102.619,"body":"and then he tried to do it by himself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1102.649,"endTime":1105.409,"body":"So as a preparation fora master thesis and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1106.459,"endTime":1112.419,"body":"He did so, and I think his first 20reactions or so were ever giving nothing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1112.809,"endTime":1113.139,"body":"And this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1114.444,"endTime":1115.644,"body":"21st or so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1115.914,"endTime":1118.734,"body":"He, he finally got some NMRresult where we were like,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1118.734,"endTime":1120.804,"body":"yeah, that seems to be working."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1121.134,"endTime":1124.884,"body":"And then, then he identified inthe previous runs, there were"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1124.884,"endTime":1127.314,"body":"sometimes traces of this product too."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1127.794,"endTime":1131.324,"body":"And then he could, build on thisand optimize the reaction and so"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1131.324,"endTime":1133.124,"body":"on, and pushed it to its limit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1133.214,"endTime":1134.564,"body":"So that was really great to see."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1134.564,"endTime":1138.664,"body":"And uh, I think he really learned, uh,I learned a lot about this and  me too."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1138.664,"endTime":1139.654,"body":"Because  okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1139.924,"endTime":1143.314,"body":"Honestly, I, I can't really give himsomething, but then go on another"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1143.344,"endTime":1147.179,"body":"whole nother topic, which is notrelated to chemistry per se it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1147.179,"endTime":1147.779,"body":"It was great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1147.889,"endTime":1151.909,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, that's a great approachbecause to teach someone who doesn't"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1151.909,"endTime":1154.459,"body":"want to learn is basically impossible."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1154.849,"endTime":1160.969,"body":"And when you find a topic that combinesboth your chemistry and the motivation"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1161.149,"endTime":1162.589,"body":"they have, then yeah, that's great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1163.279,"endTime":1169.579,"body":"I also had the experience that they'recompletely different kind of backgrounds."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1169.579,"endTime":1170.059,"body":"I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1170.059,"endTime":1177.019,"body":"Some are really good in the practicalstuff in the lab, and they really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1177.019,"endTime":1182.299,"body":"know how to do all this, uh, Schlenktechnique and all these complicated,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1182.479,"endTime":1185.029,"body":"uh, argon atmospheric chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1185.959,"endTime":1188.449,"body":"And some had to learn thisfrom scratch, but where."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1189.109,"endTime":1191.239,"body":"Very good in the theoretical part."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1191.239,"endTime":1196.999,"body":"And basically, yeah, sometimes itwas even then that they were like,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1197.089,"endTime":1200.119,"body":"shouldn't this be like this outcome?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1200.329,"endTime":1204.259,"body":"And then, yeah, I had a differentapproach on this whole, and then,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1204.259,"endTime":1210.859,"body":"yeah, because they had a more recenttheoretical course in this direction,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1210.859,"endTime":1214.849,"body":"I would say they had something, uh,which really also added them to this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1214.849,"endTime":1216.799,"body":"And then it was teamwork really."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1216.899,"endTime":1217.119,"body":"Nick: Uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1217.954,"endTime":1224.134,"body":"Kevin: You're not only the supervisorwho basically gives knowledge to them,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1224.134,"endTime":1226.594,"body":"but it's also exchange and yeah, that was"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1226.624,"endTime":1227.464,"body":"great experience."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1228.394,"endTime":1228.574,"body":"Nick: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1228.574,"endTime":1230.104,"body":"That's really the best time, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1230.164,"endTime":1233.704,"body":"If you have someone you can reallyspar with and, uh, work together"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1233.704,"endTime":1235.024,"body":"on the problems, yes, but also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1236.059,"endTime":1238.609,"body":"Kind of difficult if theyhave an edge on you and you're"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1238.609,"endTime":1241.789,"body":"like, Hmm, okay, we'll try it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1241.849,"endTime":1243.949,"body":"And, uh, they, it really works out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1243.949,"endTime":1246.679,"body":"So you really have, you'rereally humbled afterwards."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1246.679,"endTime":1247.399,"body":"Kevin: definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1249.319,"endTime":1249.379,"body":"Nick: Uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1249.859,"endTime":1253.939,"body":"Kevin: yeah, then, then you reallylearn that you don't know everything"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1253.939,"endTime":1256.639,"body":"better than them just becauseyou have a bit more experience."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1257.449,"endTime":1260.179,"body":"It's like also the differentbackgrounds add up together."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1260.944,"endTime":1262.924,"body":"Nick: Uh, can also bewith, with your colleagues."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1262.924,"endTime":1263.344,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1263.404,"endTime":1265.384,"body":"Uh, I, I've, I've got really warm there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1265.384,"endTime":1266.524,"body":"There I was really humbled."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1266.524,"endTime":1267.904,"body":"It was about protecting groups."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1267.904,"endTime":1273.574,"body":"I was really, I wanted to, to dothe special kind of protecting group"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1273.574,"endTime":1279.424,"body":"because it would be more labeledto my next step, and it would have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1279.424,"endTime":1281.554,"body":"been made the synthesis easier."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1282.114,"endTime":1285.624,"body":"My colleague here was like, Hey, whydon't you just do the other group,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1285.624,"endTime":1291.214,"body":"which is  more  well known and which is,oftentimes easier and better understood."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1291.214,"endTime":1292.684,"body":"So, and I was like, yeah, Hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1292.864,"endTime":1297.544,"body":"They need a lot, harsher conditionsand so on, uh, to then, uh, remove."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1297.544,"endTime":1300.274,"body":"And I wanted to do this in, in a yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1300.424,"endTime":1301.744,"body":"Cleaner way, let's say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1302.524,"endTime":1302.944,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1303.454,"endTime":1304.204,"body":"He was right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1304.564,"endTime":1305.194,"body":"He was right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1305.194,"endTime":1310.624,"body":"And, I lost a, I lost to my prideat least two weeks, if not more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1311.074,"endTime":1312.124,"body":"And he was right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1312.124,"endTime":1313.904,"body":"I just should have, uh, told him."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1313.904,"endTime":1314.564,"body":"Okay, you're right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1314.564,"endTime":1315.314,"body":"I will do the."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1315.569,"endTime":1319.549,"body":"The best kind of,  reaction who everyoneknows will work out fine, but maybe"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1319.549,"endTime":1321.229,"body":"go on my yield in the second step."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1321.319,"endTime":1324.289,"body":"You know, it, it did goon my yield, but yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1324.289,"endTime":1329.809,"body":"Well, it's better to, to have abit less yield than, uh, nothing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1329.839,"endTime":1330.109,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1330.109,"endTime":1335.089,"body":"Or it was more like a very sticky,solid, you know, so like, like a gel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1336.094,"endTime":1337.764,"body":"Uh, impossible to weight."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1337.954,"endTime":1340.024,"body":"It was a, a nightmare to deal with."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1340.144,"endTime":1344.924,"body":"And so the other way was a loteasier to just, to adjust to,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1346.109,"endTime":1349.229,"body":"Kevin: I also had the, thesame that there are some."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1350.249,"endTime":1355.109,"body":"Pathways, which in theory thereactants should work out better."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1355.559,"endTime":1359.909,"body":"But the work up procedure ofthe other route was then easier."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1359.909,"endTime":1365.639,"body":"So in the end, if you really want apure product, sometimes it's better"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1365.639,"endTime":1369.509,"body":"to sacrifice some of the product tohave a really pure product in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1370.379,"endTime":1377.289,"body":"To learn how to focus on whatwould work best is a thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1377.379,"endTime":1377.649,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1378.294,"endTime":1383.634,"body":"And in our group, um, because we werein the engineering departments, we were"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1383.634,"endTime":1386.514,"body":"about half chemists and half engineers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1387.324,"endTime":1392.934,"body":"That really also sometimes gave acompletely new point of view on the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1392.934,"endTime":1398.664,"body":"topics because it's really that chemistsand engineers think differently."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1399.444,"endTime":1403.524,"body":"It was more like very."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1404.589,"endTime":1409.929,"body":"Broadly said that the, the engineerswanted that something works and the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1409.929,"endTime":1412.329,"body":"chemists would like to know why?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1414.804,"endTime":1415.224,"body":"Nick: Really?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1415.224,"endTime":1417.679,"body":"Do you have an examplein, uh, some specifics?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1418.629,"endTime":1424.209,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, sometimes, um, for example,in the analysis of the reactions"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1424.869,"endTime":1432.189,"body":"that, um, yeah, some engineers justhad their, um, analysis protocol"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1432.189,"endTime":1441.009,"body":"for the GC and it worked, and, uh,then there were some sudden spikes"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1441.009,"endTime":1444.459,"body":"of something, but that was there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1445.194,"endTime":1448.284,"body":"Problem was basically justto optimize the reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1448.284,"endTime":1450.684,"body":"And when there was a side productthat in the end didn't really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1450.684,"endTime":1453.834,"body":"matter there most of the time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1453.864,"endTime":1458.844,"body":"Sometimes they also did, but most of thetime they didn't care too much about it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1459.594,"endTime":1464.274,"body":"And, uh, the chemists were alreadyin our discussions like, what is this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1464.304,"endTime":1465.774,"body":"product and where does it come from?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1467.334,"endTime":1467.634,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1468.789,"endTime":1469.479,"body":"Nick: Uh, great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1469.719,"endTime":1469.989,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1470.329,"endTime":1473.419,"body":"I had something like that in myPhD as well where I, I've got"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1473.419,"endTime":1477.649,"body":"a site product and in, in mymaster's thesis and lost countless"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1477.649,"endTime":1479.539,"body":"hours on solving, oh, what is it?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1479.539,"endTime":1482.059,"body":"And so on and, hmm, I want to really know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1482.059,"endTime":1483.229,"body":"And yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1483.499,"endTime":1488.149,"body":"Um, honestly, sometimes I think theengineering's approach is a, a bit"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1488.149,"endTime":1490.189,"body":"better or at least less time consuming."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1491.629,"endTime":1493.699,"body":"Uh, speaking of time management, again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1494.074,"endTime":1495.484,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1495.814,"endTime":1502.334,"body":"In this experience of time managementwas, what was your most profound memory?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1503.759,"endTime":1504.029,"body":"Nick: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1504.449,"endTime":1508.529,"body":"So you, you know about the Sankencost fallacy, like if you, if you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1509.384,"endTime":1513.974,"body":"Invest time in it, then you  wantit even more to succeed and that you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1513.974,"endTime":1518.384,"body":"are really given in more and moreand more time into it because Hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1518.444,"endTime":1519.494,"body":"It now has to work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1519.494,"endTime":1519.824,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1520.214,"endTime":1522.464,"body":"Uh, because you invested so much into it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1522.644,"endTime":1523.004,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1523.004,"endTime":1526.634,"body":"And I think that's a great topic in PhDs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1526.904,"endTime":1532.724,"body":"So everyone, I think at leasteveryone will experience this to some"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1532.829,"endTime":1533.119,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1533.324,"endTime":1533.834,"body":"Way out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1533.834,"endTime":1536.534,"body":"The sunken costs throughthe opportunity costs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1536.579,"endTime":1537.869,"body":"Nick: Um, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1538.859,"endTime":1539.099,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1539.099,"endTime":1544.849,"body":"I really have to say, uh, once I'vebeen really fallen in the trap and it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1544.849,"endTime":1550.909,"body":"was, uh, my second topic so I did someinternal alkynes in my second topic and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1550.909,"endTime":1555.889,"body":"they were a lot more, um, susceptible to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1556.229,"endTime":1556.769,"body":"Everything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1557.069,"endTime":1557.249,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1557.249,"endTime":1562.179,"body":"So after the , catalysis step, theisolation was difficult and I was"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1562.389,"endTime":1565.539,"body":"troubleshooting first isolation,then I've encountered Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1565.899,"endTime":1570.429,"body":"They are, um, yeah, they'reacceptable to air exposure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1570.549,"endTime":1570.969,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1570.999,"endTime":1572.259,"body":"No, no worries."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1572.529,"endTime":1576.339,"body":"Uh, you have a Schlenk line, so youdo everything under argon, no problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1576.339,"endTime":1576.609,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1576.849,"endTime":1577.179,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1577.209,"endTime":1579.209,"body":"They are also temperature in stable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1579.389,"endTime":1581.699,"body":"And so I was doing, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1582.109,"endTime":1586.279,"body":"The Rotovap on 20 degrees,so, uh, room temperature."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1586.759,"endTime":1589.219,"body":"And I couldn't work on thisproject in the summer months."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1589.969,"endTime":1594.379,"body":"Yeah, that was, I, I shouldhave, I should have killed it a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1594.379,"endTime":1596.359,"body":"long time before, but I didn't."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1596.419,"endTime":1598.789,"body":"And, uh, yeah, it, itworked out in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1598.839,"endTime":1599.919,"body":"It'll be published."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1600.489,"endTime":1607.309,"body":"Uh, but yeah,  my professor, just  putit in for a peer review and yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1607.309,"endTime":1608.839,"body":"But honestly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1609.214,"endTime":1612.874,"body":"It was definitely too muchtime involved in, in this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1613.204,"endTime":1613.444,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1613.624,"endTime":1617.044,"body":"The other one, um, topicthere, I caught myself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1617.044,"endTime":1622.294,"body":"It was about allens, which allalso some kind of, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1622.294,"endTime":1624.214,"body":"Difficult to, to build up."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1624.394,"endTime":1626.914,"body":"Uh, at least partially or some of them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1627.814,"endTime":1627.934,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1627.934,"endTime":1631.954,"body":"And then, uh, I, I saw after the,the first analysis where I did"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1632.464,"endTime":1636.064,"body":"what, 50 50 reactions on thisor, and then I, I found, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1636.589,"endTime":1638.269,"body":"The mechanism is quite easy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1638.659,"endTime":1639.469,"body":"It's too easy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1639.469,"endTime":1642.199,"body":"There's no real gain in the research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1642.529,"endTime":1644.359,"body":"And then I was like, immediate stop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1644.359,"endTime":1647.455,"body":"No, I don't really waste mytime on the them anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1648.352,"endTime":1653.179,"body":"yeah, what the other one is, the one waswhere I should have heard on my colleague"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1653.179,"endTime":1654.919,"body":"and do the other protecting group, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1655.429,"endTime":1656.959,"body":"Uh, two, two weeks."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1657.229,"endTime":1659.089,"body":"Uh, sacrifice to my pride."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1660.439,"endTime":1661.159,"body":"How about you?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1661.519,"endTime":1666.049,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, I actually had a verysimilar problem with the temperature."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1666.979,"endTime":1670.909,"body":"For me, it was like I did directionin winter at, uh, room temperature."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1671.239,"endTime":1672.259,"body":"It just didn't work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1672.859,"endTime":1677.569,"body":"Turns out the key was 30degrees, which is summer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1678.319,"endTime":1681.529,"body":"Sometimes we do have in the labbecause there's like a glass roof"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1681.529,"endTime":1683.749,"body":"and it's a bit like a greenhouse."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1685.369,"endTime":1685.699,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1685.789,"endTime":1693.349,"body":"And um, also I try to dockon some, uh, research of, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1693.889,"endTime":1699.199,"body":"One of the previous, uh, PhD studentsin the working group and try to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1699.199,"endTime":1701.929,"body":"basically combine that with what I did."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1703.009,"endTime":1708.679,"body":"And in theory it was great,but it was also a lot more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1708.679,"endTime":1710.299,"body":"difficult than I thought it was."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1711.319,"endTime":1718.489,"body":"And, um, and then we, we tried thisfor a couple of weeks and then, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1718.519,"endTime":1722.989,"body":"this was like a side project that wasalso then in the end said, okay, is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1724.129,"endTime":1725.929,"body":"If it would work, it's, it's nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1725.929,"endTime":1729.169,"body":"But yeah, so far nothing worked."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1729.169,"endTime":1735.319,"body":"So we have other projects which are morepromising and then focus the time on this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1735.709,"endTime":1740.359,"body":"And I think that's also really athing that there a lot of promising"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1740.359,"endTime":1746.539,"body":"projects and sometimes it's reallybetter to just focus on one or maximum"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1746.539,"endTime":1748.729,"body":"two and not do too many at a time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1748.729,"endTime":1750.469,"body":"Because then you sometimesalso lose track of."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1751.909,"endTime":1754.864,"body":"Which project is where, and then yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1755.524,"endTime":1758.994,"body":"Nick: Yeah now working in industry,I would've, yeah, it would've been"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1758.994,"endTime":1763.044,"body":"so good to have a good projectmanagement there, so to really keep"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1763.164,"endTime":1765.714,"body":"as a, so well, everyone does it right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1765.714,"endTime":1770.154,"body":"So, uh, you try to, to start withyour project management and you make"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1770.154,"endTime":1775.284,"body":"your first steps in it, but, uh, to,to see it now in a real professional"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1775.284,"endTime":1776.934,"body":"way, it's a whole nother story."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1776.934,"endTime":1777.864,"body":"So I would've."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1779.469,"endTime":1780.219,"body":"The projects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1780.219,"endTime":1783.939,"body":"So to keep always the eye on what'sthe big picture, which are the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1783.939,"endTime":1786.039,"body":"branches you really need to explore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1786.129,"endTime":1789.909,"body":"Um, have a real, yeah,real list of requirements."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1789.909,"endTime":1793.989,"body":"So what's your real goal inthe end for, for the project?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1794.049,"endTime":1797.289,"body":"Um, this always having a hand andwhere can you draw the line easily?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1798.249,"endTime":1799.839,"body":"That, that would've been helpful"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1799.929,"endTime":1802.984,"body":"Kevin: And really thinkingof time, like a resource."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1804.354,"endTime":1805.074,"body":"Nick: Yeah, really."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1805.284,"endTime":1810.924,"body":"Uh, honestly, because for me at least, Ithink I was a bit too easy with my time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1811.104,"endTime":1815.184,"body":"Like I would've have so much inthe end, but honestly, you don't."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1816.279,"endTime":1819.549,"body":"I think that's the first thingyou learn in your first half year."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1819.789,"endTime":1822.759,"body":"You don't do anything in the lab."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1822.819,"endTime":1825.069,"body":"It's just so, so little."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1825.129,"endTime":1829.099,"body":"You really accomplish in, in half a yearand you really need to time it better."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1829.609,"endTime":1832.609,"body":"Um, and you, you increaseyour productivity over the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1832.609,"endTime":1834.699,"body":"years and your output grows."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1834.989,"endTime":1839.299,"body":"My professor always said like,in, in the first year, you sow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1839.719,"endTime":1840.049,"body":"Huh?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1840.229,"endTime":1840.769,"body":"Then you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1842.539,"endTime":1846.739,"body":"Attending to your field or crop, andin the, in the last year, you reap it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1847.519,"endTime":1852.399,"body":"Uh, and I, I think there's a lot oftruth in there that you really your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1852.399,"endTime":1854.319,"body":"last year is the one you get your most"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1854.444,"endTime":1855.214,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1856.359,"endTime":1858.279,"body":"Nick: And for this, you need to set it up,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1858.279,"endTime":1858.639,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1860.259,"endTime":1864.369,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, I also had this with oneproject, but that in the end there"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1864.369,"endTime":1866.289,"body":"was just not enough time to finish it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1866.589,"endTime":1866.799,"body":"And"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1867.969,"endTime":1868.239,"body":"Nick: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1868.449,"endTime":1872.469,"body":"Kevin: yeah, that's also a thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1873.609,"endTime":1878.919,"body":"Now, I had also some projectmanagement, uh, workshop in, in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1878.919,"endTime":1885.489,"body":"my current job and a lot of thestuff that was in the, workshop."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1885.909,"endTime":1891.609,"body":"I already somehow knew like I did thismore or less intuitively, or basically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1891.609,"endTime":1897.129,"body":"you, when you start a PhD, you have tolearn or find a way to organize your work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1897.159,"endTime":1902.139,"body":"I mean, in the end, you obviously,you know more than when you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1902.139,"endTime":1906.129,"body":"start, but uh, it works out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1906.159,"endTime":1908.294,"body":"Everyone finds their own system, but."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1909.519,"endTime":1916.149,"body":"Then to really have another like approachto where do this systematically, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1916.149,"endTime":1918.129,"body":"Is, is a bit different, like you said."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1919.309,"endTime":1925.389,"body":"Looking back to your PhD, what arethe,  skills that you really picked"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1925.389,"endTime":1928.419,"body":"up and now can use in your career?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1929.874,"endTime":1933.264,"body":"Nick: Uh, um, yeah, what, whatI expected to learn and what in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1933.264,"endTime":1937.224,"body":"the end really I, I did learn issomething like the research aspect."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1937.224,"endTime":1940.284,"body":"You know, you really have to digdown into your books and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1940.284,"endTime":1942.144,"body":"Find a solution in there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1942.534,"endTime":1946.314,"body":"And I think this is somethingthat's taught in a, in a PhD"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1946.314,"endTime":1950.494,"body":"and that's really something youshould pick up and with it comes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1950.809,"endTime":1952.849,"body":"Comes an edge to specific cases."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1952.849,"endTime":1956.799,"body":"So if you encounter real toughproblem  in your future life,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1956.859,"endTime":1958.509,"body":"you know how to tackle it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1959.259,"endTime":1960.669,"body":"Um, I think that's really good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1961.009,"endTime":1964.069,"body":"What I at least didn't expectthis much is the, the teaching"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1964.069,"endTime":1965.749,"body":"aspect which transformed me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1966.664,"endTime":1972.074,"body":"I'd say so  the part of breakinga message down  to its core and to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1972.074,"endTime":1977.354,"body":"really to, yeah, explain a topicin easy terms so that everyone can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1977.354,"endTime":1978.884,"body":"pick it up and then build from that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1979.484,"endTime":1985.874,"body":"Um, that's very, really valuablebecause you will experience so many"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1985.874,"endTime":1989.204,"body":"different functions at, at your work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1989.594,"endTime":1992.984,"body":"Um, and you all have tounderstand what's going on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1993.584,"endTime":1997.334,"body":"You have to make it, make it easy, breakit down, and then you can build with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1997.334,"endTime":1999.504,"body":"everyone, on the future of the project."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2000.374,"endTime":2003.144,"body":"But for this, it  must firstbe understood by everyone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2003.939,"endTime":2004.179,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2004.179,"endTime":2009.849,"body":"It's also this saying that if youcannot explain your research or what"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2009.849,"endTime":2014.169,"body":"you know in easy terms to new people,then you don't really know it that well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2015.414,"endTime":2016.374,"body":"Nick: Wasn't it Einstein?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2016.779,"endTime":2016.929,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2016.929,"endTime":2019.119,"body":"I dunno who said it is some famous quote."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2020.214,"endTime":2020.504,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2021.354,"endTime":2021.564,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2021.564,"endTime":2023.904,"body":"that I would also agree on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2023.994,"endTime":2025.944,"body":"I always enjoyed teaching."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2026.064,"endTime":2030.564,"body":"Like I always during my, uh,bachelor and master did this after"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2030.564,"endTime":2033.804,"body":"school teaching to school students."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2034.434,"endTime":2038.064,"body":"And yeah, there it was alsomath and chemistry mostly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2038.784,"endTime":2044.064,"body":"And I also was a basketball trainerfor some time, so this whole"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2044.064,"endTime":2048.264,"body":"teaching aspect was always thereand that I also really enjoyed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2049.029,"endTime":2054.459,"body":"During the PhD to yeah, pass onmy knowledge and see how these,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2054.459,"endTime":2058.029,"body":"uh, students then really developedto good research in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2058.089,"endTime":2062.919,"body":"And many of them also continuedthen to do a PhD in our working"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2062.919,"endTime":2065.079,"body":"group, which is also nice to see."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2065.079,"endTime":2065.259,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2065.859,"endTime":2066.279,"body":"And,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2066.564,"endTime":2067.554,"body":"Nick: Yeah, really congrats."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2068.439,"endTime":2072.639,"body":"Kevin: and in other aspects, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2073.674,"endTime":2073.884,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2073.884,"endTime":2078.174,"body":"I would also say that some kindof resilience is, is what you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2078.174,"endTime":2080.574,"body":"learn during the PhD, which really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2080.574,"endTime":2082.554,"body":"also continues."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2082.554,"endTime":2083.364,"body":"After that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2084.144,"endTime":2089.184,"body":"You are not really easilyto set off by some problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2089.184,"endTime":2093.924,"body":"When something doesn't work likeyou wanted to, then you know,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2093.924,"endTime":2097.494,"body":"okay, you just have to find adifferent way and make it work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2098.304,"endTime":2102.414,"body":"Nick: Yeah, the 300 glass vial ofbrown sludge really teach you a lesson."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2102.414,"endTime":2103.074,"body":"Kevin: exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2104.244,"endTime":2109.914,"body":"It's like there is always a wayand then sometimes not the way"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2109.914,"endTime":2114.114,"body":"you imagined before, but in theend, uh, there will be a solution"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2115.644,"endTime":2116.394,"body":"Nick: Yeah, really."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2116.484,"endTime":2119.304,"body":"And also in communicatinga safe solution, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2119.304,"endTime":2123.834,"body":"When I encounter problems and,um, it was always clear that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2123.894,"endTime":2125.427,"body":"my professor wants a solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2125.637,"endTime":2129.717,"body":"I, I don't go to him with a problem, Igo with him with a possible solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2129.717,"endTime":2132.237,"body":"And if he thinks this will would work out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2132.237,"endTime":2134.697,"body":"So, um, it, it would be."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2134.967,"endTime":2137.937,"body":"It wouldn't be good to, togo there and ask like, Hey,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2137.937,"endTime":2139.077,"body":"I have encount this problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2139.077,"endTime":2140.067,"body":"What do you think about it?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2140.367,"endTime":2146.187,"body":"It's more like, okay, I think it's goingthis way and I should deliver or go."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2146.307,"endTime":2146.607,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2147.147,"endTime":2153.657,"body":"Or it's, it's more like the problem is,or here's the solution for this problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2153.687,"endTime":2155.277,"body":"Do you agree on it or not?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2155.277,"endTime":2156.627,"body":"And how do you think about it?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2156.957,"endTime":2158.307,"body":"And it was always this round."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2158.937,"endTime":2159.027,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2159.312,"endTime":2163.042,"body":"Kevin: And I think that's also howyou can  distinguish,  good students"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2163.042,"endTime":2166.102,"body":"from,  yeah, less good students."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2166.102,"endTime":2171.412,"body":"That really it's this, that they come upwith a solution and then want to discuss"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2171.622,"endTime":2175.672,"body":"their solution with you instead of, Ihave this problem, what's the solution?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2176.812,"endTime":2177.082,"body":"Nick: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2177.087,"endTime":2177.327,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2177.327,"endTime":2177.647,"body":"Really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2178.012,"endTime":2182.942,"body":"Kevin: and this is also a thing thatyou can teach that,  some students just"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2182.942,"endTime":2187.322,"body":"because, especially in the beginningof the bachelor's and in school, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2187.322,"endTime":2192.482,"body":"always have this very small problemsand they really take you by the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2192.482,"endTime":2194.132,"body":"hand, okay, do this, this, and this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2194.132,"endTime":2195.152,"body":"And then the end, it will work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2195.722,"endTime":2201.362,"body":"And when you come closer to your masterthesis and PhD, eventually you really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2201.362,"endTime":2203.462,"body":"have to stand on your own feet and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2203.852,"endTime":2209.732,"body":"Know how to solve these problems andthen, uh, yeah, to first come up with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2209.732,"endTime":2215.072,"body":"solutions and then discuss these possiblesolutions with your peers is really also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2215.072,"endTime":2218.402,"body":"a skill that, that you can learn in PhD."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2219.557,"endTime":2221.117,"body":"Nick: Yeah, couldn't agree more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2222.482,"endTime":2222.872,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2222.932,"endTime":2228.932,"body":"Was, uh, very interesting to alsohear your experience with the PhD. I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2228.932,"endTime":2235.292,"body":"think, uh, we have a lot of, uh, commonexperience, but that's also nice to know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2235.292,"endTime":2237.662,"body":"I guess that is everyone'sin the same boat."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2238.842,"endTime":2240.012,"body":"Nick: You really are, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2240.112,"endTime":2246.082,"body":"I think that you really,  in the end,you work on different topics, different"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2246.082,"endTime":2250.582,"body":"departments and so on, but you're stillworking with humans, with other, with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2250.582,"endTime":2253.372,"body":"other persons on, on doing research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2253.672,"endTime":2257.332,"body":"And therefore, you, you share a lotof experience because, well, it's,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2257.337,"endTime":2258.892,"body":"it's about the humans doing it right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2259.567,"endTime":2263.497,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, that's a, a nice,uh, line to finish this episode."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2264.157,"endTime":2266.632,"body":"So thank you very muchagain for being here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2267.804,"endTime":2268.044,"body":"Nick: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2268.044,"endTime":2268.494,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2268.494,"endTime":2269.334,"body":"Was a pleasure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2270.294,"endTime":2271.944,"body":"Kevin: Also thank you for listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2272.304,"endTime":2277.824,"body":"If you enjoyed this episode,don't forget to subscribe wherever"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2277.824,"endTime":2280.074,"body":"you're listening to this podcast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2280.494,"endTime":2284.694,"body":"If you have an idea for a futureepisode, a topic you would like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2284.694,"endTime":2288.354,"body":"to talk about, then let me know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2289.254,"endTime":2297.919,"body":"Either find me on LinkedIn or write mean email to contact@innovateandreact.com."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2298.49,"endTime":2301.55,"body":"Until next time, keepinnovating and stay curious."}]}