{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":null,"startTime":2.32,"endTime":4.15,"body":"Kevin: Welcome to Innovate and React."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4.21,"endTime":10.12,"body":"I'm Kevin Hares, and in today's episodewe will look at how innovation can help"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":10.12,"endTime":15.55,"body":"to transform the chemical industry andhow we can get research knowledge from"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":15.55,"endTime":18.76,"body":"the universities into application."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":19.81,"endTime":25.66,"body":"I'm here with Dr. Petra Ryl, whois the innovation and talent lead"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":25.66,"endTime":28,"body":"at greenCHEM Berlin, welcome Petra."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":28.286,"endTime":29.096,"body":"Petra: Hi Kevin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":29.216,"endTime":31.196,"body":"Thank you for theinvitation to this podcast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":31.196,"endTime":32.354,"body":"I'm really happy to be here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":32.885,"endTime":34.651,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, I'm glad you're here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":34.791,"endTime":34.971,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":34.971,"endTime":37.941,"body":"Maybe let's uh, startwith your background."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":37.941,"endTime":40.421,"body":"What brought you to greenCHEM."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":40.757,"endTime":41.897,"body":"Petra: Yeah, of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":41.957,"endTime":45.617,"body":"So I'm a biochemist anddid my PhD at a university."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":45.707,"endTime":48.917,"body":"However, publishing wasnot really my thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":49.247,"endTime":54.357,"body":"So I was always, uh, um, thinkingabout, who cares about my niche"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":54.357,"endTime":55.917,"body":"research topic in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":56.247,"endTime":61.297,"body":"And of course, there were buzzwordslike, uh, linked to a future, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":61.297,"endTime":64.957,"body":"will help, uh, us to develop anticancer drugs or something else."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":65.407,"endTime":70.297,"body":"Um, but this basic research was so faraway from any application in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":70.717,"endTime":74.497,"body":"So afterwards I became aemployee at a young startup."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":74.857,"endTime":79.347,"body":"Um, and this was really a greatchance because I really liked how"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":79.347,"endTime":81.567,"body":"science turned into an application."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":81.777,"endTime":83.337,"body":"So really solving a customer problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":83.437,"endTime":83.857,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":84.127,"endTime":85.337,"body":"What startup was that?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":86.562,"endTime":92.022,"body":"Petra: This was, um, the inventicsDx,uh doing, uh, pathogen detection,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":92.082,"endTime":96.072,"body":"uh, system platform in the end forpathogen detection in water systems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":96.072,"endTime":99.472,"body":"So, for example, a fast,uh, legionella test in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":99.942,"endTime":100.482,"body":"Kevin: Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":101.022,"endTime":105.358,"body":"Petra: Um, and there I was also in theposition later on, as product manager."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":105.358,"endTime":109.318,"body":"That means being the interface betweenthe researchers in the lab developing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":109.318,"endTime":115.028,"body":"the test, um, but also on the other side,the customers and understanding their"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":115.028,"endTime":119.428,"body":"needs, um, for the product, uh, thatit's really, a useful product in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":120.208,"endTime":120.718,"body":"And."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":121.034,"endTime":126.678,"body":"After this experience there, I followedmy interest in sustainability because I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":126.678,"endTime":132.138,"body":"was really triggered by microplastics andthe fact that we all eat, uh, the amount"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":132.138,"endTime":134.688,"body":"of one credit card microplastics per week."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":135.288,"endTime":140.208,"body":"And research clearly demonstrates thehealth consequences of it, like cancer,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":140.238,"endTime":142.458,"body":"but also a multitude of other diseases."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":142.998,"endTime":148.488,"body":"But banning this mass-produced andomnipresent plastics from our everyday"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":148.488,"endTime":150.375,"body":"lives is not that easy at all."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":150.525,"endTime":159.405,"body":"And I always question myself why inventinga drug to try to heal, um, patients and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":159.405,"endTime":165.375,"body":"not dealing with the, uh, uh, so dealingonly with the consequences of it, but not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":165.405,"endTime":170.055,"body":"looking at mother nature and the negativeeffects of, uh, plastic pollution there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":170.475,"endTime":175.035,"body":"So from my understanding, we had tostart from the source of the problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":175.035,"endTime":176.955,"body":"So the plastic production itself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":177.165,"endTime":177.345,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":177.345,"endTime":183.761,"body":"So actually swapping plastics forother materials or, or in what sense?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":184.186,"endTime":184.756,"body":"Petra: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":184.916,"endTime":185.486,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":185.856,"endTime":190.626,"body":"So, and this is really comes down tothe point, reinventing the materials"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":190.836,"endTime":195.816,"body":"to get really sustainable material thatdoes not harm us and the nature as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":196.086,"endTime":199.176,"body":"So, and this finally broughtme to greenCHEM, the ecosystem"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":199.176,"endTime":200.736,"body":"for green chemistry in Berlin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":201.066,"endTime":205.896,"body":"And, uh, here we support entrepreneurswith all what they need to create"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":205.896,"endTime":210.186,"body":"a bridge between this scientificinnovation and real world applications."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":210.306,"endTime":212.346,"body":"So therefore, it all comes together here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":212.531,"endTime":218.591,"body":"Kevin: Bringing startups to life basicallywith ideas related to green chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":219.011,"endTime":223.631,"body":"But maybe let's go one step backand uh, talk a bit about the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":223.691,"endTime":226.421,"body":"motivation and green chemistry more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":226.961,"endTime":232.961,"body":"You already mentioned that, uh, we wouldlike to swap out plastics, for example."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":233.021,"endTime":239.381,"body":"Although they're very convenient, weshould maybe think about other solutions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":239.861,"endTime":245.681,"body":"And, um, this also reminds me a bitof, uh, my bachelor thesis where"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":245.681,"endTime":249.401,"body":"I was also doing, uh, catalysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":249.431,"endTime":255.072,"body":"And catalysis research is also athing that really pushes this green"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":255.072,"endTime":260.662,"body":"chemistry, uh, forward because usingCatalysis and not using stock metric"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":260.692,"endTime":266.332,"body":"amounts of, uh, rectums is also oneof the principles of green chemistry,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":266.512,"endTime":270.802,"body":"and those always have been themotivation for my research as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":271.102,"endTime":272.962,"body":"But, um, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":273.022,"endTime":278.812,"body":"You at greenCHEM probably also havea connection to these 12 principles."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":280.117,"endTime":280.987,"body":"Petra: Absolutely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":280.987,"endTime":284.797,"body":"So John Warner is, uh, one of theco-founders of the 12 Principles of Green"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":284.797,"endTime":287.047,"body":"Chemistry, is a friend of our ecosystem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":287.557,"endTime":293.237,"body":"And he says, that 60 up to 70% ofsustainable materials we will need"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":293.237,"endTime":295.157,"body":"in the future are not invented yet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":295.397,"endTime":298.577,"body":"And this is a huge potentialwhich is not unfolded."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":299.087,"endTime":303.612,"body":"Um, and, and therefore we reallyneed technology transfer, especially"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":303.612,"endTime":307.547,"body":"in chemistry because chemicalmolecules are all around us."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":307.547,"endTime":308.927,"body":"It's a food we are eating."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":308.927,"endTime":311.357,"body":"It's a smartphone we have in our hands."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":311.407,"endTime":312.907,"body":"It's a building we are sitting in."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":312.907,"endTime":315.517,"body":"It's a car, we are driving init, it's everything around us."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":316.027,"endTime":323.257,"body":"So, and just recently we exceeded eightout of nine planetary boundaries and the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":323.257,"endTime":328.747,"body":"current chemical industry - so the wayhow we produce chemicals and materials is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":328.747,"endTime":334.877,"body":"largely responsible for this because theyhave a linear and fossil based economy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":335.447,"endTime":341.237,"body":"But the good news in this is that thereis this huge unmet impact and this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":341.237,"endTime":347.207,"body":"huge unmet potential yet, um, wherewe reinvent how we produce materials."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":348.122,"endTime":353.402,"body":"So based on regenerative andlocal resources and raw materials,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":353.402,"endTime":356.552,"body":"but also using non-toxiccatalysts as you mentioned."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":356.962,"endTime":361.622,"body":"And of course the products, butalso forming finally the sustainable"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":361.622,"endTime":366.002,"body":"materials for our personal and,uh, planetary health in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":366.462,"endTime":372.192,"body":"And this all needs to be in a circlefinally, in a circular economy approach"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":372.252,"endTime":377.172,"body":"because this is how, um, nature alsoworks because there is no waste, because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":377.172,"endTime":379.422,"body":"waste isn't waste until you waste it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":379.422,"endTime":384.602,"body":"So therefore, we have to rethink whatwe may do in the end with our materials."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":384.622,"endTime":389.622,"body":"materials And this linear take, makewaste is not anymore a chance to pursue."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":390.372,"endTime":390.552,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":390.552,"endTime":396.252,"body":"But the problem is that this reallyrequires a fundamental change because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":396.612,"endTime":402.522,"body":"most of the chemicals and consequentially,also the chemical plants we have,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":402.522,"endTime":409.182,"body":"they're so much integrated and everythingis like wheels working together."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":409.182,"endTime":411.732,"body":"And if we change."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":412.212,"endTime":412.962,"body":"A few things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":412.962,"endTime":414.612,"body":"We have to basicallychange the whole thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":415.242,"endTime":422.832,"body":"And this is a huge challenge where maybechemical giants are not that prone to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":422.832,"endTime":428.802,"body":"do that because it would require a hugeinvestment and they could just not use"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":428.802,"endTime":431.472,"body":"their, the assets they already have."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":431.472,"endTime":437.202,"body":"And, uh, this is maybe why alsostartups and uh, young companies"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":437.202,"endTime":438.552,"body":"have actually an advantage."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":438.552,"endTime":438.852,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":439.369,"endTime":440.089,"body":"Petra: Absolutely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":440.089,"endTime":441.349,"body":"You are absolutely right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":441.439,"endTime":445.189,"body":"Uh, so what we need is an inthe end disruptive innovations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":445.339,"endTime":452.239,"body":"So that means we not need a slightly moreenergy efficient battery, for example."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":452.509,"endTime":455.359,"body":"We need really to rethinkthe battery completely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":455.359,"endTime":456.079,"body":"For example."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":456.349,"endTime":461.539,"body":"So as Thomas Edison invented thelight bulb, um, he wasn't looking"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":461.539,"endTime":466.219,"body":"for a slightly more efficient wayto use a candle or a oil lamp."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":466.669,"endTime":470.869,"body":"Um, but rather he wasreinventing the concept of how"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":470.869,"endTime":472.429,"body":"light is produced in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":472.889,"endTime":476.479,"body":"Disruptive innovations arethose that replace previous"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":476.479,"endTime":478.099,"body":"technologies in the long term."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":478.729,"endTime":483.109,"body":"Um, and here comes a problem for thebig companies, um, their entire business"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":483.109,"endTime":489.619,"body":"model, but above all, all the productionfacilities from BASF or Covestro"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":489.679,"endTime":491.689,"body":"are based on fossil raw materials."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":492.019,"endTime":497.719,"body":"So whereas startups are just developingtheir technologies and if they do it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":498.109,"endTime":502.909,"body":"uh, in a sustainable way right fromthe beginning and overcome, of course"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":502.939,"endTime":508.459,"body":"challenges in scaling the technology,then um, sustainability is automatically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":508.729,"endTime":511.639,"body":"deeply integrated in their company's DNA."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":512.179,"endTime":517.964,"body":"And here especially, I think that smallercompanies like startups are really agile"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":518.654,"endTime":525.104,"body":"and can respond also much more quicklyto any opportunities that arise, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":525.104,"endTime":531.104,"body":"such as geopolitical challenges or eventhe Corona crisis and the collapse of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":531.104,"endTime":534.084,"body":"entire supply chains, uh, or even others."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":534.564,"endTime":540.234,"body":"So, and, uh, giving that we are currentlyliving in a time of multiple crisis,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":540.564,"endTime":546.244,"body":"I truly believe that agility bringsin an essential market advantage and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":546.244,"endTime":551.794,"body":"startups are much better in exploring,um, this advantage than bigger companies"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":551.799,"endTime":555.184,"body":"because of just their structure,their history, their business model."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":555.529,"endTime":560.599,"body":"Kevin: They don't have to take careof all the stuff they already built."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":560.599,"endTime":564.172,"body":"They can just start from scratchand then tackle one problem and do"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":564.172,"endTime":569.002,"body":"it much better than the Giants andthen be successful in this niche."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":569.032,"endTime":572.332,"body":"Although they might not have theresources that the big companies have."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":572.681,"endTime":577.626,"body":"Could you share some examplesfrom your network where startups"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":577.746,"endTime":579.731,"body":"were successful in such a niche?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":579.857,"endTime":583.847,"body":"Petra: First of all, I want to, uh,say that I really like the diversity of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":583.847,"endTime":586.187,"body":"sustainable technologies in our ecosystem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":586.547,"endTime":591.047,"body":"Currently, we have over 60 startupsand pre-seed technology transfer teams,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":591.377,"endTime":595.427,"body":"uh, are part of our community, and Iwould like to highlight some of these."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":595.927,"endTime":600.277,"body":"And their technologies ranges,for example, from algae based foil"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":600.327,"endTime":604.957,"body":"alternatives, uh, from muj\u014d asalternatives to plastic packaging"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":605.567,"endTime":611.057,"body":"or even sustainable ship coatingsto avoid, uh, toxic plastics in our"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":611.057,"endTime":613.277,"body":"oceans from Clean Ocean Coatings."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":613.847,"endTime":614.597,"body":"Moreover."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":614.902,"endTime":619.942,"body":"There is a variety of carbon capturetechnologies and utilization technologies"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":620.422,"endTime":626.722,"body":"like Ucaneo, um, with one of the largestdirect air capturing plants in Germany."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":627.262,"endTime":629.182,"body":"Um, and Spark E-fuels."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":629.272,"endTime":633.599,"body":"They create from capturedcarbon e -fuels for aviation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":634.357,"endTime":641.076,"body":"But also the team Kalz is, uh, storingCO2 in concrete in construction industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":641.946,"endTime":645.806,"body":"And moreover, we have high performingbattery technologies, a really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":645.806,"endTime":651.496,"body":"hot topic right now without usingany, uh, rare earth metals like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":651.496,"endTime":654.076,"body":"Mana.Energy is doing but also others."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":654.676,"endTime":660.906,"body":"Um, and last but not least, there's also,uh, PFAS adsorber materials from Porelio,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":661.306,"endTime":666.706,"body":"um, that take back forever chemicalsfrom the environment and especially"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":666.706,"endTime":668.506,"body":"from the water we drink every day."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":668.896,"endTime":673.636,"body":"So this is just a small selection ofgreat, uh, green chemical innovations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":673.996,"endTime":677.446,"body":"Um, I mean, I'm sorry that I couldn'tmention more of how the community"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":677.446,"endTime":682.066,"body":"members, uh, due to the time, butI think this shows a varity from"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":682.096,"endTime":688.166,"body":"water to batteries, uh, to buildingto many different, uh, sectors."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":688.316,"endTime":694.316,"body":"Kevin: Very diverse and all of themare really impactful challenges."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":694.812,"endTime":700.767,"body":"I have also looked into the PFAS, uh,problem recently for Electrolyzers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":701.282,"endTime":707.492,"body":"Replacing PFAS would be great if we findmaterials that have similar durability"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":708.002,"endTime":710.072,"body":"but are not as harmful as them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":711.247,"endTime":712.117,"body":"Petra: Yes, absolutely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":712.117,"endTime":718.412,"body":"And here come, comes in this communityaspects because many startups are dealing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":718.447,"endTime":720.427,"body":"with the same challenges in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":720.757,"endTime":724.407,"body":"Um, and together as community,uh, we have the credo \"Founders"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":724.407,"endTime":727.267,"body":"support Founders\" on eye level."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":727.297,"endTime":729.797,"body":"That means we are reallysupportive with each other."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":730.007,"endTime":733.937,"body":"And whenever somebody in a differentfield had faced a challenge and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":733.937,"endTime":737.922,"body":"was solving this challenge, theyare really openly exchanging their"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":738.167,"endTime":742.247,"body":"knowledge and their experience andtheir learnings with the community."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":742.547,"endTime":747.647,"body":"So that's really speeding up and,and also creating this momentum of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":747.767,"endTime":750.317,"body":"together, we're doing a great thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":750.747,"endTime":751.527,"body":"Kevin: Oh, interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":751.797,"endTime":755.577,"body":"That is, uh, always thebenefit of a great network."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":755.577,"endTime":761.047,"body":"I guess I can imagine those CO2captures and e-fuel companies have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":761.047,"endTime":763.177,"body":"a good ground to work together on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":764.602,"endTime":765.052,"body":"Petra: Of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":765.729,"endTime":769.689,"body":"Kevin: So you really have a greatnetwork of startups, even with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":769.689,"endTime":771.669,"body":"the possibility to collaborate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":771.669,"endTime":772.299,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":773.169,"endTime":780.369,"body":"Let's now talk about how to get fromthe universities to these kinds of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":780.369,"endTime":782.379,"body":"applications in startups and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":782.547,"endTime":789.738,"body":"One  problem that PhD students orresearchers at university face sometimes"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":789.738,"endTime":795.108,"body":"is they have a great idea and we all,when we did our research at university,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":795.108,"endTime":802.878,"body":"have this, uh, motivation and in thestart of papers we write how this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":802.878,"endTime":804.918,"body":"research could impact the future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":805.548,"endTime":812.598,"body":"But in the end, most of the time thisresearch just is published in the paper"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":812.598,"endTime":817.998,"body":"and then maybe some other researcherspick up on it and contribute, but."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":818.808,"endTime":822.798,"body":"It's not that easy to take actuallyaction and take your research"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":822.798,"endTime":827.328,"body":"and put it into application inthe real market and in a company."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":828.118,"endTime":831.273,"body":"How do you support thisknowledge transfer?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":833.773,"endTime":834.433,"body":"Petra: Absolutely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":834.883,"endTime":839.593,"body":"Um, so in the end there are differenttypes of, uh, knowledge transfer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":840.013,"endTime":845.513,"body":"Um, and as a German word \"Wissenschaft\",uh, illustrates quite clearly, the purpose"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":845.513,"endTime":847.763,"body":"of research is to create knowledge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":848.163,"endTime":850.743,"body":"This is often done by taxpayers money."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":850.803,"endTime":855.371,"body":"However, bringing this technologyor transferring it to the market is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":855.371,"endTime":860.111,"body":"exactly the other way around becausehere we're taking the generated"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":860.111,"endTime":862.331,"body":"knowledge and earn money with it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":862.691,"endTime":867.431,"body":"So it describes the pathway fromacademic research into the market."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":868.311,"endTime":873.471,"body":"And this can be done either by creatingan own company, so a startup, uh, or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":873.471,"endTime":877.821,"body":"the technology can be transferred toan existing company, for example, by an"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":877.821,"endTime":880.671,"body":"industry collaboration or IP licensing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":881.181,"endTime":885.931,"body":"And we at greenCHEM don't mindwhere, or how the technology is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":885.931,"endTime":890.071,"body":"transferred to the market, as longas the sustainable potential of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":890.071,"endTime":892.141,"body":"this technology is fully unfolded."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":892.531,"endTime":896.731,"body":"And that only happens when thesustainable material is available"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":896.761,"endTime":901.531,"body":"to, for purchase, because otherwiseit stays to be a knowledge only"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":901.681,"endTime":902.911,"body":"on a paper, as you mentioned."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":903.611,"endTime":907.951,"body":"So it's like you - as a personand as PhD and researcher - have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":907.951,"endTime":911.346,"body":"to think about what you really,really want to do in your life."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":911.646,"endTime":915.366,"body":"So is it only having an impactfactor on a publication?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":915.876,"endTime":919.966,"body":"Um, or is it really makingan impact with your research?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":920.446,"endTime":925.126,"body":"And for the later one, technologytransfer from academic research to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":925.126,"endTime":927.616,"body":"a marketable application is a key."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":928.186,"endTime":933.66,"body":"And here you will grow also in anexciting entrepreneurial journey yourself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":933.706,"endTime":939.401,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, I think that's also a bitof the direction you take in, in your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":939.401,"endTime":944.801,"body":"studies early on, if you, uh, reallywant to pursue an academic career and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":945.641,"endTime":952.691,"body":"become a professor, and then it's usuallybetter to, to go for high impact papers"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":953.591,"endTime":958.691,"body":"because, uh, research that is, uh,more in the fundamental way can have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":958.901,"endTime":961.361,"body":"more interest by other researchers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":961.361,"endTime":965.141,"body":"So that I would say ismore like the academic way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":965.591,"endTime":971.291,"body":"But when you have some smallapplications for a reaction or a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":971.291,"endTime":977.081,"body":"new material, that usually, unlessit's really groundbreaking, has"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":977.081,"endTime":981.821,"body":"not that much impact in the, um,research community, but it could have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":981.821,"endTime":983.921,"body":"a great impact in, in the market."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":983.921,"endTime":989.943,"body":"And then that's where one could focuson trying to bring that to the market."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":989.973,"endTime":990.213,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":990.948,"endTime":991.398,"body":"Petra: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":991.458,"endTime":996.618,"body":"And therefore for, for example, we atgreenCHEM do, um, a Chemistry Career Talk."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":996.678,"endTime":1000.908,"body":"Uh, that means we have a panel discussion,of course, with a professor who did the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1000.908,"endTime":1006.918,"body":"academic path, but also with someoneworking in big industry, but also, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1006.948,"endTime":1012.588,"body":"maybe a vc, so a investor or someoneworking in regulations, but all have a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1012.588,"endTime":1015.928,"body":"PhD in chemistry or, close related, field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1016.468,"endTime":1019.961,"body":"So, and in the end it's reallyabout also your personality and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1019.961,"endTime":1021.731,"body":"what you want to do in your life."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1022.101,"endTime":1027.711,"body":"But we also have to be realistic that, uh,becoming the next professor, only 1% of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1027.711,"endTime":1030.471,"body":"the PhD candidates will reach this goal."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1030.911,"endTime":1035.051,"body":"And currently the big industries,uh, the big corporates are not really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1035.051,"endTime":1040.531,"body":"highly engaged in recruiting personalbecause of their challenges they have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1040.531,"endTime":1042.471,"body":"to face due to the \"Chemiewende\"."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1043.131,"endTime":1047.871,"body":"So, uh, they are more spending, uh,trying to rethink their business model and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1047.871,"endTime":1050.771,"body":"try to save costs at the personal side."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1051.351,"endTime":1054.981,"body":"And this makes the entrepreneurialway much more likely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1055.371,"endTime":1060.206,"body":"And to get really in touch withstartups from our community, we also do"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1060.236,"endTime":1062.396,"body":"regularly this, startup hopping tour."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1062.666,"endTime":1066.696,"body":"It's like a bus hop on, hop offtour, uh, where we basically do not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1066.886,"endTime":1071.356,"body":"sighting at Berlin, but we use itof course, startups that it's really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1071.356,"endTime":1071.716,"body":"like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1071.828,"endTime":1073.598,"body":"Kevin: They're all based in Berlin then?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1074.626,"endTime":1075.921,"body":"Petra: Yeah, in Berlin, often."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1076.261,"endTime":1080.761,"body":"That they really see startups,the people behind it, um, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1080.761,"endTime":1083.341,"body":"also their, uh, mindset behind it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1083.341,"endTime":1086.281,"body":"This growth mindset is:\"Okay, let's take action."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1086.461,"endTime":1087.271,"body":"There's a challenge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1087.271,"endTime":1091.201,"body":"We can solve it or find a wayworking around or whatever."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1091.621,"endTime":1097.491,"body":"Um, but we can fix it in the end.\" Andalso that becoming, I mean, not everybody"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1097.511,"endTime":1102.971,"body":"needs to become a own founder from theiracademic research, but also working as"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1102.971,"endTime":1107.621,"body":"employee in a startup is really also,uh, a great experience as I have done it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1108.291,"endTime":1110.791,"body":"And it's really like a journey."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1110.791,"endTime":1114.481,"body":"And you learn so many thingsand it's not about, this is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1114.481,"endTime":1116.911,"body":"my experience I had already."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1117.211,"endTime":1120.931,"body":"It's like having this growthmindset: \"okay, I don't know"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1120.931,"endTime":1122.341,"body":"it yet, but I can learn.\""},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1123.211,"endTime":1127.771,"body":"Kevin: And that also kind ofcontinues the way, uh, you're"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1127.861,"endTime":1132.991,"body":"researching before that you want tolearn new stuff and then apply it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1133.861,"endTime":1135.391,"body":"So that's a great way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1135.391,"endTime":1142.271,"body":"And in Berlin you said that thereare already a lot of startups"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1142.271,"endTime":1146.351,"body":"that could be visited and you dothis, uh, tour, which is great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1146.351,"endTime":1151.751,"body":"So people early on, even in theirbachelor's or from what time"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1151.751,"endTime":1153.401,"body":"can they get in touch with you?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1154.766,"endTime":1156.146,"body":"Petra: As early as they want."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1157.181,"endTime":1157.331,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1157.331,"endTime":1162.071,"body":"That's great because, uh, in mystudies I think it was not really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1162.071,"endTime":1166.601,"body":"that, uh, visible until very late onthat, uh, this would be an option."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1166.601,"endTime":1173.398,"body":"There was always the, yeah, you gottado a PhD, gotta do then even the postdoc"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1173.398,"endTime":1180.118,"body":"maybe, and then you either end up in theindustry or you do some academic work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1181.148,"endTime":1181.968,"body":"Petra: Yes, absolutely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1182.078,"endTime":1182.773,"body":"Same for me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1183.307,"endTime":1188.167,"body":"And, and therefore we also go, um, right,uh, to the students at the beginning."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1188.227,"endTime":1192.757,"body":"Uh, so we offer a bachelor and mastercourses in green chemistry, but also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1192.757,"endTime":1197.137,"body":"in entrepreneurial thinking thatthey really start from right from the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1197.137,"endTime":1203.467,"body":"beginning to ask what does the marketneed and not this happy engineering: I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1203.467,"endTime":1208.147,"body":"want to understand something, I reallywant to create something in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1208.147,"endTime":1213.137,"body":"So, therefore we have there also coursesand, uh, the micro-credential, which is a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1213.137,"endTime":1218.687,"body":"concept coming from the United States thatyou do your master degree in chemistry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1218.687,"endTime":1224.017,"body":"or chemical engineering, for example, andhave this add on, as micro-credential."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1224.827,"endTime":1229.547,"body":"That means you do additional courses inentrepreneurship, in green chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1229.607,"endTime":1234.717,"body":"Um, and also here, John Warner, is givingguest lectures, uh, online guest lectures."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1235.107,"endTime":1239.997,"body":"Um, and then you get this, uh,additional certificate and it's really,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1239.997,"endTime":1243.897,"body":"great for your CV because when youthen apply in a startup, they really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1243.897,"endTime":1248.187,"body":"see, ah, you have been in touch withstartups, the startup scene before,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1248.517,"endTime":1250.797,"body":"and uh, you have this mindset as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1250.922,"endTime":1251.342,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1251.982,"endTime":1252.612,"body":"Kevin: Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1252.882,"endTime":1258.895,"body":"So this is, uh, already, yeah,a new way basically that you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1258.895,"endTime":1260.365,"body":"can pursue with chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1260.916,"endTime":1265.956,"body":"Petra: And maybe to add on this, onthe website, greenCHEM.berlin, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1265.956,"endTime":1270.726,"body":"will find also more information,um, on our offers for students and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1270.726,"endTime":1275.106,"body":"researchers, but also for innovatorsand green minded people in general."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1275.166,"endTime":1277.956,"body":"So they are much more offers around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1278.716,"endTime":1279.006,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1279.081,"endTime":1279.441,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1279.741,"endTime":1286.851,"body":"So maybe let's, uh, go through anexample like, um, you have mentioned"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1286.941,"endTime":1293.185,"body":"multiple ways of, bringing knowledgefrom the research to application."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1293.335,"endTime":1295.765,"body":"So one would be a startup."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1296.445,"endTime":1302.355,"body":"What is a good way if you are inyour masters or in your PhD, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1302.355,"endTime":1307.755,"body":"then think, okay, my research mighthave potential to become a startup."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1308.26,"endTime":1308.68,"body":"Petra: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1309.855,"endTime":1310.425,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1310.515,"endTime":1317.145,"body":"Um, it's first of all really essentialthat, um, I mean we all come from a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1317.145,"endTime":1323.465,"body":"academic point of view and perspective,and we are this techy- interested people,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1323.525,"endTime":1328.625,"body":"wanting to understand how something worksor how we can make something to work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1328.995,"endTime":1334.68,"body":"However, we are never asking a customeror the market what is really essential."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1334.92,"endTime":1340.86,"body":"So therefore it is really important,uh, to ask the market or a potential"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1340.86,"endTime":1343.62,"body":"pilot partner as early on as possible."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1344.12,"endTime":1346.04,"body":"So in the end it's talk to them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1346.49,"endTime":1351.38,"body":"Talk to not only one person, talk to manyof them, um, and try to get the market"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1351.38,"endTime":1356.15,"body":"perspective as early as possible becauseif you don't ask the market needs, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1356.15,"endTime":1361.702,"body":"will be doing happy engineering untilinfinity without creating a product in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1361.702,"endTime":1364.792,"body":"end that brings any added value to anyone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1365.182,"endTime":1368.842,"body":"And if no one buys your product,in the end, you run out of cash."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1368.842,"endTime":1375.532,"body":"And of course the then it was a wastein time and money but you learned a lot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1376.022,"endTime":1380.642,"body":"So therefore, networking is reallyessential and meeting the right"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1380.642,"endTime":1386.007,"body":"people, but really this taking theopportunity that raise and don't"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1386.007,"endTime":1390.147,"body":"wait until anything will happen oryou finished your PhD or anything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1390.417,"endTime":1394.977,"body":"Just go out, uh, talk aboutthings and follow your intuition"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1394.977,"endTime":1396.807,"body":"and your motivation behind it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1397.287,"endTime":1398.427,"body":"Um, yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1398.487,"endTime":1400.672,"body":"So go out and talk."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1401.832,"endTime":1407.352,"body":"Kevin: And I think also talk to otherdisciplines probably because for example,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1407.352,"endTime":1414.342,"body":"all this, uh, business knowledge that,um, other studies have that I think is in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1414.342,"endTime":1419.562,"body":"the chemistry, um, not that much in depth."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1419.682,"endTime":1426.387,"body":"So it's probably also beneficial to talkto some economists or something like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1427.377,"endTime":1428.067,"body":"Petra: Absolutely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1428.067,"endTime":1430.467,"body":"The key is an interdisciplinary team."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1430.527,"endTime":1434.837,"body":"So they need to somehow speak thesame language not in the depth,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1434.837,"endTime":1438.887,"body":"but need to have a, a commonunderstanding of what is a technology"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1438.887,"endTime":1440.927,"body":"about and where is the potential."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1441.347,"endTime":1447.357,"body":"Um, but uh, exactly, it's really hardto get this market perspective and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1447.357,"endTime":1452.137,"body":"this business expertise because it'sa whole new world and you are just"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1452.247,"endTime":1456.237,"body":"like at your first day at university,you're, just new to it and have to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1456.237,"endTime":1458.307,"body":"learn in so many different things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1458.487,"endTime":1463.177,"body":"So how to pitch, how to write a businessplan, what would like investors to see?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1463.447,"endTime":1465.637,"body":"All this phrases there and everything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1466.027,"endTime":1469.687,"body":"And this is nothing to do with yourtechnology and you are more familiar"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1469.687,"endTime":1473.617,"body":"with the technology itself and maybeeven scaling in the first steps."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1473.977,"endTime":1478.987,"body":"Um, so therefore the key is always, um,try to group up and team up with people,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1479.347,"endTime":1482.647,"body":"um, uh, becoming maybe also co-founders."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1482.647,"endTime":1485.347,"body":"And there we have also a greatexample in our community."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1486.257,"endTime":1491.477,"body":"A woman, Nikol, she was doingher, uh, internship as a master"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1491.477,"endTime":1493.937,"body":"student in a early phase startup."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1493.937,"endTime":1498.027,"body":"So they were in a pre-seed phase at thatstate because the team worked really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1498.027,"endTime":1502.307,"body":"great together, she did her masterthesis in this, uh, pre-seed startup"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1502.637,"endTime":1507.407,"body":"and finally became a co-founder ofPorelio, the PFAS absorber material,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1507.467,"endTime":1509.117,"body":"uh, startup I mentioned beforehand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1509.527,"endTime":1516.007,"body":"So finally she was able to create her ownposition, her own future position, and the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1516.007,"endTime":1520.987,"body":"team is really like, interdisciplinary,uh, but is really willing to learn and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1520.987,"endTime":1524.542,"body":"willing to adapt also and, uh, growing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1524.642,"endTime":1526.092,"body":"And I'm really excited."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1526.092,"endTime":1531.072,"body":"Uh, so now they're incorporatedsince almost a year, and now they are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1531.072,"endTime":1535.272,"body":"fundraising and we keep our fingerscrossed and, uh, yeah, that they will"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1535.272,"endTime":1537.282,"body":"have a successful road in front of them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1538.047,"endTime":1538.247,"body":"Kevin: Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1538.247,"endTime":1541.462,"body":"Yeah, that's also a great, uh, way of."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1542.622,"endTime":1543.482,"body":"Getting yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1543.482,"endTime":1548.767,"body":"Into the markets because nowadaysalso, as you mentioned before, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1548.792,"endTime":1553.262,"body":"the big companies are not recruitingthat much because of this whole energy"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1553.262,"endTime":1556.322,"body":"crisis, the chemical transition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1556.322,"endTime":1561.272,"body":"And then that way, uh, if you findsome bright minds and collaborate, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1561.272,"endTime":1565.532,"body":"can basically make your own position."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1566.522,"endTime":1566.762,"body":"Petra: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1566.762,"endTime":1569.492,"body":"And, and she didn't broughther own IP with her."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1569.492,"endTime":1573.782,"body":"It was like collaborating withothers, um, because you always need"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1573.782,"endTime":1578.422,"body":"more than one person, one brilliantidea to bring it to the market."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1578.452,"endTime":1581.952,"body":"Uh, so really this collaborative,uh, approach is really essential."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1582.022,"endTime":1583.012,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1583.372,"endTime":1588.442,"body":"I think that might also be this stereotypethat if you have a great idea, you should"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1588.442,"endTime":1594.532,"body":"not share it and basically do everythingon your own until it's already a big thing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1594.532,"endTime":1596.722,"body":"and then you can start talking to people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1597.412,"endTime":1599.602,"body":"This probably won't work, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1601.192,"endTime":1604.702,"body":"Petra: Absolutely, because then you aretotally overwhelmed with all different"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1604.702,"endTime":1610.107,"body":"tasks you have to do, either with,uh, purchasing a patent but also, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1610.107,"endTime":1612.087,"body":"need to get the money from somewhere."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1612.087,"endTime":1616.527,"body":"I mean, even, uh, all publicresearch funds end at a certain time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1616.587,"endTime":1619.947,"body":"Uh, and usually you're not doingthe invention at the first day."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1620.367,"endTime":1623.702,"body":"It's more or less the last dayin your PhD thesis or a master or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1623.702,"endTime":1625.682,"body":"a postdoc contract or anything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1626.222,"endTime":1630.032,"body":"Um, so you really need tofind also financial funding."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1630.422,"endTime":1635.882,"body":"And here comes one problem inwhere, um, in Germany we have a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1635.972,"endTime":1638.942,"body":"good system of, um, public funding."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1639.302,"endTime":1644.402,"body":"Uh, however, in the deep techsector, what green chemistry is, it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1644.402,"endTime":1649.552,"body":"really hard to get this, early phasevalidation programs because they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1649.552,"endTime":1651.142,"body":"expect already that you have a patent."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1651.212,"endTime":1651.632,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1651.857,"endTime":1653.192,"body":"What is this validation?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1653.322,"endTime":1656.142,"body":"Petra: It's for example, a VIP+ program."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1657.022,"endTime":1658.912,"body":"It's a national, uh, funding program."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1659.272,"endTime":1664.282,"body":"Uh, but for this, you need to have apatent and who is learning in their PhD"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1664.672,"endTime":1669.962,"body":"how to file a patent or what's actuallypatentable, and worth to protect."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1669.992,"endTime":1675.462,"body":"And, uh, so there are the, patentoffices at the universities or even"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1675.462,"endTime":1678.042,"body":"institutes who can support you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1678.122,"endTime":1682.502,"body":"And this is really essential, uh,that you, before you publish anything,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1682.712,"endTime":1687.482,"body":"you really have to think about is it,uh, uh, invention, how to protect it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1687.482,"endTime":1691.652,"body":"Because otherwise, even publicfunding programs won't give you money."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1692.012,"endTime":1694.802,"body":"And nevertheless, investorswon't give you money later on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1695.432,"endTime":1704.157,"body":"Um, and this is really essential thatyou first protect your IP, before you go,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1704.187,"endTime":1710.367,"body":"and, uh, publish something like a paperor at a conference, a poster or something"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1710.592,"endTime":1714.892,"body":"Kevin: So again, this conflict betweenthe academic way and the company way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1715.532,"endTime":1715.602,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1716.067,"endTime":1717.867,"body":"Petra: Absolutely, absolutely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1717.927,"endTime":1723.702,"body":"Um, now it's coming at least a bitmore common that, uh, also, a file"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1723.762,"endTime":1727.422,"body":"patent is worth in a PhD of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1727.472,"endTime":1729.842,"body":"Then you still have to writethe entire thesis and things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1729.842,"endTime":1733.839,"body":"But, still there are wayshow you can do it, but it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1733.839,"endTime":1735.939,"body":"nothing you learn at university."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1736.429,"endTime":1738.829,"body":"And that you are aware beforehand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1738.829,"endTime":1744.319,"body":"So it's like really being intrinsicallyand motivated and gain all, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1744.349,"endTime":1748.639,"body":"information you need and go tothe support from the university."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1749.156,"endTime":1752.876,"body":"Kevin: That's probably also very muchdependent on the motivation of the PI."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1753.476,"endTime":1759.776,"body":"If they are entrepreneurial andmaybe already have started some"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1759.776,"endTime":1762.056,"body":"companies, then they know what to do."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1763.256,"endTime":1768.596,"body":"But if they don't, it's much harder, andthat's where networks are very important."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1768.671,"endTime":1769.091,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1770.081,"endTime":1770.381,"body":"Petra: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1770.381,"endTime":1775.151,"body":"And also role models, like seeing what,what others do in a different sector."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1775.151,"endTime":1780.751,"body":"If I see someone, doing a sustainablebatteries and I'm in this PFAS adsorber"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1780.771,"endTime":1785.106,"body":"material, it's like: \"Okay, when they cando it in this sector. Then I can do it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1785.106,"endTime":1787.446,"body":"also in my sector.\" So where is the point?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1787.446,"endTime":1790.896,"body":"So, so really like this, seeing rolemodels and therefore we have this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1791.196,"endTime":1794.976,"body":"chemistry career talk, as I mentioned,but also startup hopping tour and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1794.976,"endTime":1801.316,"body":"also other formats, where they seeearly on that it is possible and also,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1801.366,"endTime":1804.636,"body":"to try to generate this, momentum."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1804.666,"endTime":1810.486,"body":"Uh, at PIs also, when, when they see,okay, ah, there's also a, a additional"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1810.486,"endTime":1814.596,"body":"budget source we can get, nevermindif it's called validation program"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1814.596,"endTime":1816.666,"body":"or later, uh, funding programs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1817.176,"endTime":1821.424,"body":"Um, so it doesn't have tobe always DFG  or anything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1821.474,"endTime":1824.564,"body":"So there is more than justresearch funding and this is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1824.564,"endTime":1826.484,"body":"also a learning for professors."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1826.934,"endTime":1832.094,"body":"Um, and this also helps whenother professors in our ecosystem"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1832.784,"endTime":1834.284,"body":"talk about their patents."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1834.314,"endTime":1839.114,"body":"Talk about how the patents, um,are brought to life in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1839.309,"endTime":1842.709,"body":"Um, yeah, really essential."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1842.709,"endTime":1843.509,"body":"There's role models."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1843.689,"endTime":1844.949,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1845.699,"endTime":1851.809,"body":"And, um, the other way or the secondway you mentioned from bringing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1851.989,"endTime":1856.824,"body":"research to the market would belicensing, licensing of your work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1856.924,"endTime":1857.944,"body":"How, how is that done?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1859.849,"endTime":1863.869,"body":"Petra: In the end, the start is thesame because you need to understand the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1863.869,"endTime":1866.899,"body":"market and you need to protect your idea."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1867.319,"endTime":1871.874,"body":"Um, and then in the end, also industrycollaboration could be a, good idea"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1871.874,"endTime":1877.474,"body":"because then you are collaboratingwith, um, SME or even a bigger company."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1877.549,"endTime":1878.689,"body":"Kevin: What's SME."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1879.129,"endTime":1881.019,"body":"Petra: Small and medium sized enterprise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1881.659,"endTime":1887.849,"body":"And then you're basically,uh, doing research on their,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1888.009,"endTime":1889.869,"body":"real world problem in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1890.079,"endTime":1894.399,"body":"So it's like more an industry pullapproach because you're solving their"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1894.399,"endTime":1899.399,"body":"problem by your research, but then it'smore likely that this industry partner"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1899.609,"endTime":1904.739,"body":"will take up the IP, uh, which is, uh,usually, um, sitting at the universities."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1905.874,"endTime":1907.494,"body":"And then, uh, licensing it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1907.794,"endTime":1911.184,"body":"And there, as I mentioned, the,patent offices are supporting you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1911.544,"endTime":1917.694,"body":"Um, and this is, uh, then in the endonly a, shorter time when you are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1917.694,"endTime":1922.254,"body":"in the driving seat as innovator tobring it to the market because then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1922.254,"endTime":1927.886,"body":"the entire commercialization is doneby the, uh, already existing company."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1928.126,"endTime":1932.716,"body":"So not you are going to be thefounder and not your, uh, need"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1932.716,"endTime":1934.426,"body":"to know all legal aspects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1934.636,"endTime":1940.466,"body":"It's more like negotiating becauseyou understand the market needs, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1940.676,"endTime":1942.866,"body":"know about the value from your IP."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1943.609,"endTime":1947.719,"body":"Then there need to be this progressionthat the patent is there, that it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1947.719,"endTime":1952.384,"body":"it was filed in the end and that, itcan be licensedit, also there need"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1952.384,"endTime":1958.114,"body":"to be negotiations, of course, uh,between the, uh, universities, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1958.204,"endTime":1963.694,"body":"innovators, but also the company oreven multiple partners, uh, who are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1963.694,"endTime":1966.174,"body":"interested in licensing, the patent."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1966.594,"endTime":1970.184,"body":"And, the patent can be, forexample, licensed for a certain"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1970.304,"endTime":1975.574,"body":"application field or even for likeproducing the material in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1975.574,"endTime":1979.276,"body":"So there are several options andit's really essential to dig deeper"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1979.306,"endTime":1985.006,"body":"into these entire IP, topic alsowith a patent lawyer for example."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1985.006,"endTime":1989.826,"body":"So get as many perspectives, inthe negotiation to find the best"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1990.256,"endTime":1991.856,"body":"way for your technology in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1991.856,"endTime":1995.831,"body":"So it's not nothing you canplan in detail beforehand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1996.026,"endTime":2001.246,"body":"Kevin: You can stay in research if youare trying to do that or it's more easy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2002.461,"endTime":2002.881,"body":"Petra: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2003.031,"endTime":2005.041,"body":"This is then not basic research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2005.191,"endTime":2008.101,"body":"Um, this is then really applied research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2008.101,"endTime":2013.171,"body":"So there's this, this different between,you always need to get the market"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2013.261,"endTime":2015.111,"body":"perspective and ask what is useful?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2015.261,"endTime":2018.111,"body":"But because you have this industrycollaboration partner, it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2018.111,"endTime":2020.301,"body":"quite more easy to, to get this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2020.421,"endTime":2023.541,"body":"Kevin: And then, um, therewas also a third way?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2024.09,"endTime":2024.63,"body":"Petra: Of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2024.63,"endTime":2028.65,"body":"So entrepreneurial way, um,that you, uh, have your own"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2028.65,"endTime":2031.01,"body":"IP and bring it to a company."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2031.4,"endTime":2037.07,"body":"Um, but in the end we see the entireproblem a bit more, um, holistic"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2037.07,"endTime":2041.06,"body":"because there are also peoplelike Nikol I mentioned before."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2041.09,"endTime":2045.62,"body":"She didn't brought her own IP with her,but she was really like working hard"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2045.62,"endTime":2050.25,"body":"and being a driving force, to bring theknowledge from somebody else or from"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2050.25,"endTime":2052.56,"body":"the co-founder, uh, into the market."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2052.77,"endTime":2056.73,"body":"So therefore, uh, the limitingaspect here is people who"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2056.73,"endTime":2058.62,"body":"really want to get things done."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2058.995,"endTime":2059.175,"body":"Kevin: The"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2059.31,"endTime":2059.52,"body":"Petra: in The"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2059.565,"endTime":2059.725,"body":"end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2060.645,"endTime":2061.515,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2061.545,"endTime":2065.415,"body":"We really need, uh, brilliantpeople, uh, with a growth mindset,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2065.625,"endTime":2069.195,"body":"spending their essential lifetimeto create a better tomorrow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2069.495,"endTime":2074.205,"body":"And we from greenCHEM are notinterested where someone comes from."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2074.715,"endTime":2079.675,"body":"But, more where you want to go to andwhat's your driving motivation behind it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2080.175,"endTime":2080.595,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2080.695,"endTime":2086.815,"body":"Petra: And, uh, because of this, peopleand IP thing, we bring together interested"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2086.815,"endTime":2092.015,"body":"entrepreneurial thinking, people withgreat IP, and sustainable, uh, potential."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2092.285,"endTime":2096.395,"body":"So, and thanks to the financialsupport from the Federal Ministry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2096.395,"endTime":2101.435,"body":"of Research Technology and space, aswell as the Joachim Herz Foundation,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2101.735,"endTime":2106.115,"body":"we are able to hand out a one yearscholarship to innotalents as we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2106.115,"endTime":2108.935,"body":"call all this driving force people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2109.625,"endTime":2114.275,"body":"Um, and besides this financialsupport, we also provide the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2114.549,"endTime":2116.229,"body":"necessary lab infrastructure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2117.099,"endTime":2121.509,"body":"And can cover material costs,but also offer accommodations for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2121.509,"endTime":2126.159,"body":"talent, uh, coming from abroadto Berlin to really do things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2126.234,"endTime":2129.954,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, that is really a problemin Berlin to find some place to stay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2131.289,"endTime":2132.009,"body":"Petra: Yes, yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2132.009,"endTime":2136.044,"body":"So, uh, the therefore, to,to really get things quickly"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2136.044,"endTime":2139.119,"body":"done, it's really, essential tofocus on the important things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2139.119,"endTime":2143.289,"body":"And in this perspective, it's importantto get the technology to the market"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2143.289,"endTime":2147.549,"body":"and not finding a accommodations,exactly, which is a nightmare in Berlin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2148.119,"endTime":2149.229,"body":"Um, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2149.229,"endTime":2152.709,"body":"And therefore moreover,the, uh, so-called innovate!"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2152.709,"endTime":2157.519,"body":"Call is, a link to a highquality validation program in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2157.519,"endTime":2161.509,"body":"collaboration with our partner,the Founder Institute, Germany."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2162.394,"endTime":2166.474,"body":"And the great thing is that theapplication start exactly now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2166.474,"endTime":2172.444,"body":"So in February, 2026, and even if youlisten to this, uh, podcast episode later,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2172.714,"endTime":2177.611,"body":"there will be always a new cohort startingover and over, uh, during the next, years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2178.061,"endTime":2183.391,"body":"So in the end, what my key message is,um, if you really feel this deeper,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2183.691,"endTime":2189.846,"body":"motivation and this deeper, driving forceinto yourself of I really want to change"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2189.846,"endTime":2195.676,"body":"things and create a real world impact,then please visit, greenCHEM.berlin,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2195.696,"endTime":2199.926,"body":"the website where you find all essentialinformation and apply to the innovate!"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2199.926,"endTime":2200.376,"body":"Call."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2201.336,"endTime":2206.796,"body":"Nevermind if you have an own IP fromyour research or, uh, a co-founder"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2206.796,"endTime":2211.356,"body":"team yet because we are bringingtogether talents and IP to create a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2211.356,"endTime":2212.976,"body":"sustainable materials for the future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2213.041,"endTime":2213.461,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2213.691,"endTime":2216.546,"body":"Providing the networkand the infrastructure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2217.116,"endTime":2218.631,"body":"So even."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2219.441,"endTime":2223.311,"body":"If you're not from Berlin, it'sworth visiting the website."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2224.376,"endTime":2224.946,"body":"Petra: Absolutely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2225.621,"endTime":2226.011,"body":"Kevin: Great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2226.731,"endTime":2231.471,"body":"Yeah, you provide the, thenetwork and the lab infrastructure"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2231.471,"endTime":2237.261,"body":"because it's usually also not easywhen you're done with your PhD."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2237.261,"endTime":2239.391,"body":"Then go somewhere."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2239.961,"endTime":2243.711,"body":"Sometimes it's possible to stay atuni and start something there, but"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2243.711,"endTime":2246.171,"body":"that's not always, always a thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2246.171,"endTime":2249.441,"body":"So how do you help with this problem?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2250.746,"endTime":2251.316,"body":"Petra: of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2251.616,"endTime":2255.336,"body":"So lab infrastructure is reallyessential because you need a lab"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2255.336,"endTime":2260.346,"body":"where you can synthesize, validate,and above all scale your technology"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2261.111,"endTime":2263.451,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, that needs morespace than the lab bench."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2264.186,"endTime":2264.786,"body":"Petra: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2264.786,"endTime":2268.446,"body":"And especially at university, it'salways, you always work in tiny"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2268.446,"endTime":2273.686,"body":"lab scale, but uh, to prove, anapplication you need more than that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2273.736,"endTime":2278.656,"body":"Usually your synthesis, uh, yields inlike five grams, something like this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2278.966,"endTime":2282.446,"body":"But when the first, uh, pilotpartner asks you for a hundred"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2282.446,"endTime":2284.456,"body":"kilogram Hmm, how to get there?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2285.116,"endTime":2289.916,"body":"Um, so therefore we from greenCHEMprovide the necessary infrastructure"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2289.916,"endTime":2292.496,"body":"from the idea to the production scale."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2292.856,"endTime":2297.176,"body":"So here we have the INKULAB asa kind of lab container at a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2297.176,"endTime":2298.916,"body":"Technical University of Berlin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2299.786,"endTime":2303.566,"body":"And, uh, the new building of theChemical Invention Factory, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2303.566,"endTime":2305.306,"body":"is currently under construction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2305.606,"endTime":2311.056,"body":"And next year, we will, offer nearly40 fumehoods to talents and innovators"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2311.056,"endTime":2316.274,"body":"to pursue the commercializationof their academic research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2316.784,"endTime":2321.434,"body":"So, and moreover, there's also theScale Up Lab at the, uh, Free University"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2321.434,"endTime":2326.564,"body":"of Berlin and partners like theStartup Labor Schwedt to scale up your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2326.564,"endTime":2331.184,"body":"technologies and really build the firstpilot plant, and finally the first"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2331.184,"endTime":2333.344,"body":"of its kind, uh, production plant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2333.924,"endTime":2339.114,"body":"So it, it's like a whole bunch of,support doing all, uh, through all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2339.114,"endTime":2340.854,"body":"different technology readiness levels."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2341.589,"endTime":2344.799,"body":"From, uh, TRL 1 to TRL 9 in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2345.079,"endTime":2348.899,"body":"This scale was coming from NASAand was adopted from Professor"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2348.899,"endTime":2353.999,"body":"Schom\u00e4cker from, TU Berlin, um, tochemical, uh, innovations in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2354.029,"endTime":2359.369,"body":"And you need different lab infrastructureat each different level you're in."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2359.789,"endTime":2364.049,"body":"And because we are partnering up, um, andcollaborating with, uh, many partners,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2364.349,"endTime":2369.419,"body":"it's really like Berlin as a place tobe, um, when you need infrastructure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2370.019,"endTime":2374.819,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, so you actually also have,uh, contacts to the bigger chemical sites"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2374.819,"endTime":2381.957,"body":"where you could also scale your technologyto a significant level and not just the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2381.957,"endTime":2385.047,"body":"bench or even like a small pilot plant."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2385.518,"endTime":2386.418,"body":"Petra: Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2386.418,"endTime":2390.448,"body":"And in, in the Chemical InventionFactory, uh, there will be a fumehoods"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2390.468,"endTime":2394.098,"body":"where you can walk in and build yourreactor in and things like this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2394.098,"endTime":2399.828,"body":"So really like this, uh, initial stepsand, and really like, uh, to also optimize"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2399.828,"endTime":2405.005,"body":"and validate, your technologies, uh,because, uh, it's not a linear, reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2405.035,"endTime":2410.165,"body":"So you can't adapt, all the, uh, reactionparameters you are doing for a five gram"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2410.165,"endTime":2414.695,"body":"synthesis to a five kilogram synthesis andnevertheless to a 500 kilogram synthesis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2415.115,"endTime":2417.215,"body":"So this won't work at all."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2417.215,"endTime":2422.225,"body":"The high I you climb the ladder ofthe TRL levels, the more additional"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2422.225,"endTime":2426.525,"body":"experience you need which youhaven't gained before as, as PhD."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2427.335,"endTime":2427.635,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2427.635,"endTime":2435.345,"body":"Also all this, um, legislativepart like you have to do in, in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2435.345,"endTime":2437.345,"body":"Germany, all these, permitting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2437.435,"endTime":2440.735,"body":"You have to do the BImSchVpermitting and stuff like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2441.305,"endTime":2441.575,"body":"Petra: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2441.905,"endTime":2445.625,"body":"And, and here also other regulatoryaspects come into place like,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2445.895,"endTime":2447.863,"body":"uh, REACH, regulatory affairs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2447.963,"endTime":2452.563,"body":"So if you produce a chemicalcompound, at a ton scale per"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2452.563,"endTime":2457.013,"body":"year, then you need to fulfillcertain regulation rules and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2457.283,"endTime":2462.473,"body":"So that means entrepreneurship is in theend more than just the higher TRL level."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2462.653,"endTime":2465.473,"body":"So there are so manydifferent, um, aspects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2465.623,"endTime":2470.873,"body":"So like IP I mentioned before, now aregulatory aspect, but also understanding"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2470.873,"endTime":2475.373,"body":"the customer, creating a business modelfrom this, having a sustainable impact."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2475.523,"endTime":2477.323,"body":"Where is the funding coming from?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2477.623,"endTime":2482.183,"body":"Um, and ah, there's also a team,which we, we need to bring together"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2482.183,"endTime":2486.323,"body":"and also develop the own role asleadership and things like this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2486.323,"endTime":2490.213,"body":"So there are many differentdimensions of readiness level, of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2490.213,"endTime":2492.163,"body":"Innovation Readiness Level in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2492.613,"endTime":2496.941,"body":"And this is also the reason why,we adapted, this, uh, Innovation"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2496.941,"endTime":2501.781,"body":"Readiness Level concept, uh, indifferent dimensions from the KTH, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2501.781,"endTime":2504.031,"body":"institute, uh, from Sweden, I think."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2504.431,"endTime":2510.151,"body":"And adapted to, uh, chemical innovationsto really like give, the pre-seed and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2510.151,"endTime":2516.571,"body":"and, uh, technology transfer teamsearly on a better overview of in which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2516.571,"endTime":2518.641,"body":"different sectors they have to look to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2519.091,"endTime":2524.621,"body":"Because if you are climbing up their TRLladder, but are forgetting to secure your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2524.621,"endTime":2527.201,"body":"IP, no investor will ever invest in you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2528.056,"endTime":2533.786,"body":"Or your startup, or if you are, um,understanding the customer need, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2533.786,"endTime":2537.866,"body":"and building a business model out ofit, but are forgetting the regulatory"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2537.866,"endTime":2542.486,"body":"aspects, then you are also failingin the end because then the law"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2542.486,"endTime":2548.036,"body":"comes and hits you, um, in a not sofriendly way in the end, uh, because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2548.036,"endTime":2552.911,"body":"you need to be compliant, of coursefor the reason of protecting, humans,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2552.911,"endTime":2554.594,"body":"but also protecting the environment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2554.888,"endTime":2560.118,"body":"So exactly doing this lesson learnedfrom what was not done before."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2560.298,"endTime":2565.813,"body":"I mean, PFAS was invented as how wewanted to have this, water peeling"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2566.053,"endTime":2570.656,"body":"effect, this Lotusbl\u00fcten effect atour rain jacket, for example, or in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2570.656,"endTime":2573.181,"body":"our, pan, to cook in the kitchen in."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2573.431,"endTime":2579.791,"body":"But, it was only asked for the feature ofthe coating compound it should facilitate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2579.791,"endTime":2584.211,"body":"and it was never asked before, is itharmful for environment or for humans?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2584.271,"endTime":2590.109,"body":"And this is now where regulation comesin and is nowadays really like more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2590.109,"endTime":2595.099,"body":"strict, maybe not strict enough yet,because still research is going on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2595.099,"endTime":2599.809,"body":"and what does PFAS do to our body anddue to the environment, for example."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2600.109,"endTime":2604.963,"body":"But, I think this basic concept ofproving before that you're doing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2604.963,"endTime":2607.003,"body":"good and not bad is really essential."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2607.003,"endTime":2609.623,"body":"I mean, this is also whatclinical trials are usually doing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2610.073,"endTime":2615.878,"body":"It's, yeah, showing the proof thatthis drug will, be helpful in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2616.388,"endTime":2619.358,"body":"And this is also what needs tobe adapted to the material world."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2619.643,"endTime":2619.973,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2620.138,"endTime":2620.428,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2620.453,"endTime":2626.453,"body":"So the, the more you scale, the morethings you have to take care of and the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2626.453,"endTime":2628.673,"body":"more people you have to hire eventually."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2629.213,"endTime":2633.473,"body":"And then that is also where thenetworks are important again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2633.923,"endTime":2639.573,"body":"Um, maybe one thing that, I thought aboutwhen you talked about this, uh, roles"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2639.963,"endTime":2645.841,"body":"is also that if you have the IP, youdon't necessarily have to become the CEO."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2645.961,"endTime":2651.581,"body":"You can also bring the IP into thecompany, but then find someone who is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2651.911,"endTime":2657.191,"body":"great at all this stuff that the CEOdoes, what's not necessarily all the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2657.191,"endTime":2659.321,"body":"chemical knowledge you need, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2659.836,"endTime":2664.576,"body":"Petra: Often I see in our communitythat the inventor is becoming the CTO."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2665.096,"endTime":2670.166,"body":"So the uh, technology part andis then adapting, or hiring or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2670.166,"endTime":2674.156,"body":"getting in the team, uh, mostlikely a serial entrepreneur."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2674.156,"endTime":2679.386,"body":"So someone who has done the journeybefore and learned a lot before, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2679.386,"endTime":2684.786,"body":"therefore has a much, much broaderexpertise in what's useful, and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2684.841,"endTime":2688.921,"body":"also about do's and don'ts in frontof investors and things like this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2688.921,"endTime":2692.971,"body":"I don't say that it's not possible ifyou are the inventor becoming the CEO,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2692.971,"endTime":2698.091,"body":"it's also possible, but in the end,it's coming back to your personality"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2698.121,"endTime":2699.831,"body":"and also your inner motivation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2700.011,"endTime":2701.361,"body":"What do you want to do?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2701.661,"endTime":2706.341,"body":"Is it like, do you want to becomethe CEO that means, uh, the business"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2706.341,"endTime":2713.151,"body":"person and your main task is to getthe, money into the company to be able,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2713.151,"endTime":2715.431,"body":"that the CTO scales the technology?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2715.881,"endTime":2717.561,"body":"Or is it the CTO part?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2717.966,"endTime":2718.146,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2718.146,"endTime":2725.476,"body":"This, um, especially at the naturalscientists, chemists, physicists, they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2725.476,"endTime":2729.046,"body":"might enjoy more like the technicalpart and not the business part."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2729.601,"endTime":2729.931,"body":"Petra: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2731.048,"endTime":2731.978,"body":"Which is totally fine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2731.978,"endTime":2736.261,"body":"We need both of them andeven more people around it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2736.696,"endTime":2741.376,"body":"Kevin: And I think also, uh, thehiring part is very important for that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2741.376,"endTime":2747.616,"body":"You really need the in-depth peopleknowledge and yeah, hire, bright minds."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2747.616,"endTime":2750.346,"body":"It's also very crucial to grow a company."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2750.871,"endTime":2751.501,"body":"Petra: Absolutely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2751.501,"endTime":2754.171,"body":"And I mean, especially theco-founded team, which are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2754.171,"endTime":2756.031,"body":"usually two or three people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2756.421,"endTime":2760.171,"body":"They see each other much, muchmore during the days than you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2760.171,"endTime":2761.791,"body":"see your wife or your husband."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2761.791,"endTime":2764.701,"body":"So it's like really like amarriage and you really should"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2764.911,"endTime":2767.191,"body":"think carefully beforehand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2767.521,"endTime":2769.921,"body":"Is everybody taking up responsibility?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2770.251,"endTime":2775.193,"body":"Uh, did we fulfilled all roles, and withdifferent expertise and things like this?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2775.193,"endTime":2778.903,"body":"So, is it really a good, uh,interdisciplinary team, where"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2778.903,"endTime":2780.403,"body":"all tasks can be covered?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2780.733,"endTime":2784.333,"body":"And if there's something, uh, stillmissing, you need to think about,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2784.773,"endTime":2790.933,"body":"which are our essential tasks and,uh, where's our key technology"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2790.963,"endTime":2792.763,"body":"key secret source and everything?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2792.883,"endTime":2798.253,"body":"So what needs to stay in-house andwhat maybe can also be outsourced as,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2798.523,"endTime":2803.813,"body":"okay, then I'm getting a consultantor a agency doing the marketing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2803.813,"endTime":2808.018,"body":"stuff or doing, uh, supporting, withtheir expertise in how to write a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2808.018,"endTime":2809.368,"body":"business plan and things like this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2809.368,"endTime":2813.838,"body":"So there are also options inoutsourcing several things, but it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2813.838,"endTime":2819.118,"body":"always essential to keep your owntechnology, your secret sauce inside"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2819.118,"endTime":2820.588,"body":"of your company and protect it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2820.758,"endTime":2821.178,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2821.845,"endTime":2822.025,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2822.025,"endTime":2828.295,"body":"Then, um, maybe on your personalview, what are three tips that you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2828.295,"endTime":2833.935,"body":"would give someone who is in theirearly research career and thinks"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2833.935,"endTime":2838.735,"body":"about starting a company or bringingtheir research into the market?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2839.055,"endTime":2839.475,"body":"Petra: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2840.55,"endTime":2845.78,"body":"First of all, network, um, as I mentionedbeforehand, and also this, even when you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2845.78,"endTime":2848.865,"body":"don't have a idea yet, engage early on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2849.165,"endTime":2854.135,"body":"So be intrinsically motivated andsee what are your opportunities."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2854.165,"endTime":2858.815,"body":"Um, go to a chemistry career talk,for example, go to conferences,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2858.815,"endTime":2864.745,"body":"go to the startup hubs, all overGermany, um, and meet people and see"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2864.745,"endTime":2869.485,"body":"role models and see how others aredoing and get inspired in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2869.845,"endTime":2872.365,"body":"Uh, so I think get inspiredis a first, aspect."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2872.875,"endTime":2877.985,"body":"Um, then of course when you start yourjourney, find, good collaboration partners"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2878.015,"endTime":2882.848,"body":"like networks  like greenCHEM, and thereare also others in Germany around, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2882.878,"endTime":2885.788,"body":"like in, Aachen and Munich and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2886.178,"endTime":2890.858,"body":"Um, and in the end, I think all comesdown to this message from John Warner."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2890.888,"endTime":2895.838,"body":"We need to reinvent 60, up to70% of the sustainable materials"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2895.838,"endTime":2897.158,"body":"we will need in the future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2897.878,"endTime":2902.232,"body":"So there's a huge playgroundin the end for everybody of us."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2902.332,"endTime":2907.012,"body":"And do it in a collaborative way, um,because there are so many problems"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2907.012,"endTime":2912.202,"body":"and so many, uh, things which need tobe reinvented and get away from this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2912.202,"endTime":2917.402,"body":"fossil resource that I think there'senough space for all of us and a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2917.402,"endTime":2919.472,"body":"good, healthy competition, so to say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2919.562,"endTime":2924.812,"body":"Because competition is nothing bad orgood, it's more like, always asked what"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2924.812,"endTime":2929.132,"body":"can we learn from each other to gettogether the thing done, because in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2929.132,"endTime":2931.172,"body":"end, we are all sitting on one planet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2931.172,"endTime":2934.322,"body":"So we are all sitting in thesame boat and when looking at"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2934.322,"endTime":2939.452,"body":"the eight out of nine planetaryboundaries, it's like urgency also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2939.752,"endTime":2944.462,"body":"It's like we have to act now or actually,yes, actually 10, 10, 20 years ago."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2944.462,"endTime":2947.732,"body":"But the next best, bestchoice to start is now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2947.822,"endTime":2948.152,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2948.602,"endTime":2950.282,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2950.282,"endTime":2955.292,"body":"So it's also a great timeto thinking about starting a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2955.292,"endTime":2957.062,"body":"company in the chemical space."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2957.062,"endTime":2961.712,"body":"There's a lot of problems that weneed to solve, and, uh, engineering"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2961.712,"endTime":2966.422,"body":"and chemistry is really, uh, theway of solving those problems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2967.112,"endTime":2971.372,"body":"Then, as the last questionin this episode, what is your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2971.642,"endTime":2973.592,"body":"favorite discovery in chemistry?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2975.567,"endTime":2976.317,"body":"Petra: A great question."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2976.317,"endTime":2977.157,"body":"Thank you for this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2977.247,"endTime":2980.967,"body":"Um, maybe it's not awell-known discovery yet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2981.027,"endTime":2986.027,"body":"Uh, however, as I listened tothe founder of Carbon One, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2986.027,"endTime":2987.947,"body":"it was so mind blowing to me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2988.337,"endTime":2993.047,"body":"So last year, Marek Checinski fromCarbon One, a serial entrepreneur in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2993.047,"endTime":2997.787,"body":"our community, was our guest speakerat our community meeting and shared"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2997.787,"endTime":3000.607,"body":"his knowledge about pilot plant design."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3001.207,"endTime":3006.167,"body":"Um, and he invented a sustainableway of green methanol production"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3006.227,"endTime":3008.267,"body":"as fuel for shipping industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3009.077,"endTime":3013.632,"body":"Um, and the methanol production wasinvented like over a hundred years ago."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3014.812,"endTime":3020.732,"body":"However, with very high temperatures,over 800 degrees, very high pressure,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3020.762,"endTime":3026.072,"body":"uh, over 300 bars, and a productyield of only something like 30%."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3026.072,"endTime":3029.832,"body":"So it's like 70% is notthe product in the end?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3029.832,"endTime":3030.792,"body":"So what a waste!"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3031.362,"endTime":3036.672,"body":"So, and I really couldn't understand whythese harsh conditions are, uh, required."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3037.042,"endTime":3043.222,"body":"Whereas Mother Nature, as I'm abiochemist, uh, shows how we can produce"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3043.222,"endTime":3047.642,"body":"and facilitate chemical reactions,and can be done at room temperature"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3047.642,"endTime":3051.782,"body":"and without any toxic catalystbecause we are living humans and all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3051.782,"endTime":3056.487,"body":"reactions taking place in our bodiesand in entire nature are done without"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3056.487,"endTime":3061.152,"body":"any toxic things and without a highpressure and harsh conditions and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3061.662,"endTime":3062.472,"body":"So, and in the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3063.952,"endTime":3069.658,"body":"Long story, short  Marek, invented a newsustainable catalyst, um, enabling the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3069.658,"endTime":3076.938,"body":"reaction at roughly a hundred degrees and20 bar with a yield of more than 9 5%."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3077.538,"endTime":3084.408,"body":"So this means the most economicallysensible solution is also the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3084.408,"endTime":3086.268,"body":"most sustainable solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3086.568,"endTime":3088.338,"body":"And this was so mind blowing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3088.368,"endTime":3094.238,"body":"And I find this is a really motivatingreaction for green chemistry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3094.238,"endTime":3099.028,"body":"startups, which really shows howsustainability and economics can go"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3099.028,"endTime":3101.218,"body":"hand in hand for a better tomorrow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3101.248,"endTime":3107.338,"body":"Because nobody will say, oh, do,I'm choosing the 30% yield reaction"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3107.638,"endTime":3110.788,"body":"and putting even more energyinto it, or do I'm choosing the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3110.788,"endTime":3114.028,"body":"sustainable and 95% yield reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3114.028,"endTime":3114.598,"body":"So it's like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3115.058,"endTime":3115.348,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3115.648,"endTime":3119.428,"body":"Petra: Sustainability is always betterfor everybody and for the planet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3120.388,"endTime":3121.018,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, thank you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3121.018,"endTime":3123.268,"body":"That was a great, great idea."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3123.268,"endTime":3130.738,"body":"Also great invention and perfectlycircles back to the beginning where we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3131.158,"endTime":3139.398,"body":"want to use less energy, less waste,and uh, yeah, push all these green"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3139.398,"endTime":3141.798,"body":"and innovative chemistry forward."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3141.798,"endTime":3143.538,"body":"And it's a great example of that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3144.048,"endTime":3148.758,"body":"So yeah, thank you very much Petra forthis really interesting discussion."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3148.758,"endTime":3156.468,"body":"I learned a lot about all the startupsand how to bring your idea to the market."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3156.618,"endTime":3156.978,"body":"Thank You"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3157.169,"endTime":3159.389,"body":"Petra: Yes, Kevin, uh, Thankyou for the opportunity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3159.389,"endTime":3161.309,"body":"of this, uh, interview today."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3161.589,"endTime":3165.339,"body":"And I'm really looking forward,uh, to even more brilliant minds"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3165.339,"endTime":3170.019,"body":"coming to Berlin and really workingtogether on unfolding the sustainable"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3170.019,"endTime":3171.639,"body":"potential of green chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3171.999,"endTime":3174.249,"body":"And of course, alsoapplying for the innovate!"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3174.249,"endTime":3179.169,"body":"Call, which is open now, um,until mid of March, 2026."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3179.499,"endTime":3184.119,"body":"And I'm really looking forward tosee many sustainable materials in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3184.119,"endTime":3186.009,"body":"the market in a couple of years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3186.099,"endTime":3187.689,"body":"Thank you so much for the opportunity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3187.956,"endTime":3190.536,"body":"Kevin: Also, thank youvery much for listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3190.896,"endTime":3194.696,"body":"If you want to know more aboutgreenCHEM, then check out"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3194.696,"endTime":3196.166,"body":"the links in the show notes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3196.976,"endTime":3201.776,"body":"And don't forget to follow on whereveryou are listening your podcast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3202.079,"endTime":3207.479,"body":"This really helps to grow the showand get new guests on to continue."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3208.083,"endTime":3210.993,"body":"Until next time, keepinnovating and stay curious."}]}