{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":null,"startTime":1.552,"endTime":3.442,"body":"Kevin: Welcome to Innovate and React."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3.742,"endTime":9.352,"body":"I'm super excited about this episodebecause it'll be about, a variation of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":9.682,"endTime":14.542,"body":"my favorite analytical method, nuclearmagnetic resonance spectroscopy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":15.142,"endTime":18.382,"body":"So I'm very happy to welcomeAnna Mayer to the show."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":18.682,"endTime":25.249,"body":"She's using solid state NMR forprotein research in her PhD Hi Anne."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":26.397,"endTime":26.687,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":26.762,"endTime":28.712,"body":"Hey, thank you for your invitation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":28.822,"endTime":29.872,"body":"Kevin: Let's start with the beginning."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":29.924,"endTime":32.894,"body":"How did you end up in this field?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":33.074,"endTime":35.984,"body":"I think is solid stateNMR is not that common."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":36.337,"endTime":37.31,"body":"Anne: Uh, yeah, that's true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":37.31,"endTime":41.45,"body":"So, um, maybe I start with mybeginnings, uh, for, with my bachelor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":41.45,"endTime":47.3,"body":"So I did chemical biology during mybachelor, and then I yeah, decided"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":47.3,"endTime":51.47,"body":"that I want to do more physicalchemistry and to focus more on"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":51.47,"endTime":53.63,"body":"NMR and theoretical chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":54.17,"endTime":61.98,"body":"And so I ended up in Frankfurt, which isa huge university for membrane proteins."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":62.04,"endTime":67.72,"body":"And we have a lot of, um,methods how we investigate them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":67.75,"endTime":71.15,"body":"And one main method in Frankfurt is NMR."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":72.055,"endTime":74.965,"body":"So we have a lot of spectrometers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":75.015,"endTime":82.425,"body":"We have this, um, BMRZ which is calledbio molecule magnetic resonance center."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":82.815,"endTime":84.645,"body":"And yeah, it's, it's huge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":84.645,"endTime":90.405,"body":"And um, during the masterI, did like every kind of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":90.405,"endTime":91.875,"body":"magnetic resonance in general."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":91.875,"endTime":97.281,"body":"So, solid state, NMR liquid, or I alwayssay liquid NMR because solid liquid?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":97.281,"endTime":102.921,"body":"No, no, about the solution NMRand EPR, which is, um, electron"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":102.981,"endTime":104.731,"body":"para magnetic resonance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":104.731,"endTime":105.901,"body":"So it's similar."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":106.411,"endTime":113.691,"body":"And after my thesis, which I actuallydid not in NMR, I did some theoretical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":113.691,"endTime":121.341,"body":"chemistry, but, um, I, I missed NMRin magnetic resonance, so I, yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":121.341,"endTime":125.151,"body":"more or less decided like, which,um, internship I liked the most."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":125.151,"endTime":127.641,"body":"And this was in the solid state NMR."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":127.971,"endTime":129.171,"body":"Um, group."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":129.171,"endTime":131.271,"body":"So yeah, here I am."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":132.111,"endTime":132.291,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":132.561,"endTime":136.161,"body":"We will then look intohow this works later."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":136.461,"endTime":143.391,"body":"So like we also ment had a quite bigNMR department and that's how I got"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":143.451,"endTime":147.696,"body":"interested into NMR and um, yeah, this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":148.431,"endTime":152.931,"body":"Started, or the, the interest reallysparked when I went to the lecture"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":152.931,"endTime":160.801,"body":"for the NMR and the professor talkedabout how this whole, um, methods"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":160.801,"endTime":167.381,"body":"came about and that it is the firsttechnology that has a noble prize"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":167.411,"endTime":170.361,"body":"in all three scientific, fields."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":170.724,"endTime":174.624,"body":"So it's a fun fact that Ithink it's really interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":174.674,"endTime":178.604,"body":"In total, there are actually fiveNobel prices for the discovery"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":178.604,"endTime":181.604,"body":"of NMR and its applications."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":182.424,"endTime":188.634,"body":"The first two were in physics in 1944."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":189.339,"endTime":197.799,"body":"Rabbi was awarded the Nobel Prize fora discovery of NMR and in 1952 the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":197.799,"endTime":201.069,"body":"discovery of precision measurements."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":202.224,"endTime":210.744,"body":"Laid the foundation for NMR and about40 years later, Ernst got the Nobel"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":210.744,"endTime":213.444,"body":"Prize in chemistry for the first time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":213.444,"endTime":219.804,"body":"Then, um, for high resolution NMR andadding the Fourier transformation,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":219.834,"endTime":226.472,"body":"NMR, which made NMR usable for,uh, analyzing molecules and then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":227.437,"endTime":234.757,"body":"In 2002, NMR got the price fordetermining the 3D structures of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":234.757,"endTime":236.827,"body":"biological molecules and solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":237.487,"endTime":239.794,"body":"So that's also close what you do."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":240.904,"endTime":241.774,"body":"Just, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":242.434,"endTime":243.694,"body":"Not as a solid form."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":244.144,"endTime":252.154,"body":"And finally, in 2003, Lauterburand Mansfield got a Nobel Prize"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":252.154,"endTime":257.134,"body":"in medicine for the discoveryof magnetic resonance imaging."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":257.284,"endTime":264.514,"body":"So MRI, which is used today a lotin medicine to basically look into"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":264.514,"endTime":268.774,"body":"the body without having to cut itopen, and that's pretty amazing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":268.981,"endTime":272.491,"body":"Now let's dive into how this all works."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":273.391,"endTime":274.651,"body":"Let's start with the basics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":275.956,"endTime":276.346,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":276.376,"endTime":276.766,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":276.766,"endTime":280.506,"body":"Um, so maybe like NMR, just to Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":281.106,"endTime":281.676,"body":"Repeat it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":281.676,"endTime":286.206,"body":"So it's nuclear meant kinetic resonanceand maybe you think it's useful if we go"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":286.266,"endTime":288.726,"body":"word by word through through the things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":289.146,"endTime":292.706,"body":"So nuclear means like, does wedo something with the nucleus."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":292.706,"endTime":298.666,"body":"What we actually do is to excitea proton spin in the nucleus."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":299.056,"endTime":302.896,"body":"And we do that in NMRwith radio frequencies."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":303.376,"endTime":307.996,"body":"This is a method where you useradio frequencies to excite a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":308.026,"endTime":310.936,"body":"proton spin of a suitable atom."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":310.936,"endTime":316.576,"body":"And when you look into your, um,periodic system of elements, you yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":316.576,"endTime":320.506,"body":"you can see a lot of, um, elements,but which are the suitable ones?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":320.506,"endTime":327.331,"body":"This is defined by the numberof neutrons in your nucleus."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":328.051,"endTime":335.031,"body":"So, um, for example, we have, uh,what we use in common D and Bio NMR."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":335.391,"endTime":342.251,"body":"We have the, the hydrogen, which has,zero, neutrons in the most common form."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":342.881,"endTime":349.371,"body":"And then we have 13 carbon,um, and 15 nitrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":349.555,"endTime":354.295,"body":"Kevin: These are the most common rightto, to measure for chemists in the lab."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":354.715,"endTime":358.075,"body":"Usually you go for hydrogen and carbon."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":358.075,"endTime":361.321,"body":"I would say nitrogen ismore for biology right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":361.531,"endTime":362.491,"body":"Anne: Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":362.551,"endTime":366.581,"body":"So there are a lot of other thereare a lot of other NMR active nuclei."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":367.011,"endTime":370.311,"body":"So, um, you could also measure sodium."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":370.881,"endTime":376.601,"body":"But, um, these ones are the most commonones and the easiest ones because  you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":376.601,"endTime":380.781,"body":"excite, a proton spin, but there isa next thing you should consider."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":380.791,"endTime":386.621,"body":"How the magnetic spin is, um, dividedafter you put it into the magnet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":387.101,"endTime":392.471,"body":"So for, um, protons, um,that's how you call hydrogens."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":392.531,"endTime":395.951,"body":"Um, in NMR, they are not,uh, hydrogen anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":396.251,"endTime":402.401,"body":"Um, so for, for them and for the nitrogenand also the carbon you like after you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":402.401,"endTime":408.281,"body":"put, uh, um, the sample in your, inyour magnet, then you have the external"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":408.341,"endTime":410.891,"body":"magnetic field, which is called B zero."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":411.191,"endTime":412.331,"body":"That's important"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":412.541,"endTime":414.961,"body":"Kevin: That's the magnetic part in NMR."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":415.296,"endTime":416.886,"body":"Anne: Yeah, thank you for noticing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":417.186,"endTime":418.026,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":418.076,"endTime":423.416,"body":"So now we know, okay, nucleus protons,um, neutrons are, um, important."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":423.416,"endTime":425.936,"body":"So now we go further to magnetic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":426.386,"endTime":434.906,"body":"So, um, so we have this externalmagnetic field and um, B zero."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":434.966,"endTime":440.366,"body":"And when you put your sample into themagnet, um, then something happens,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":440.366,"endTime":442.556,"body":"which is called zeman distribution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":443.036,"endTime":444.331,"body":"So for example, for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":445.391,"endTime":449.411,"body":"Hydrogen, 13 carbon or 15 nitrogen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":449.711,"endTime":454.111,"body":"You have, uh, splitting intotwo different energy levels."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":454.771,"endTime":461.401,"body":"Um, there are other NMR active nuclear,which, um, split into more energy"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":461.401,"endTime":463.891,"body":"levels, but this is the hard case."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":463.891,"endTime":467.071,"body":"So we, I think I would justfocus on the easiest way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":467.431,"endTime":471.961,"body":"So this has something to do withmagnetic number and some quantum stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":472.201,"endTime":476.221,"body":"And so, but in this case, we have,um, for hydrogen and the other"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":476.221,"endTime":480.991,"body":"easy, easy ways to explain it,we have spin a half or one half."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":481.051,"endTime":488.251,"body":"And so we have, alpha level, which isslower in its energy, and we have a betta"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":488.271,"endTime":495.831,"body":"level, which it has a bit higher energy,and Yeah, you can just, um, imagine"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":495.831,"endTime":498.261,"body":"two, two bars in your, in your head."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":498.261,"endTime":502.431,"body":"So you have one bar in the lower andthe other one is just a bit higher."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":502.791,"endTime":505.711,"body":"And here you have allthe spins in your sample."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":507.631,"endTime":514.311,"body":"And, um, because of the botsmandistribution the, population of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":514.311,"endTime":518.841,"body":"the i a spins is just slightlybigger than one of the betta spins."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":519.441,"endTime":525.261,"body":"And those few spins, we havemore, at the alpha level."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":525.321,"endTime":530.781,"body":"These ones we can excite withanother magnetic impulse."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":530.781,"endTime":536.001,"body":"So here comes the radio frequency in,and here comes this resonance part"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":536.541,"endTime":542.941,"body":"because we have this radio frequencywith a specific, um, resonance frequency"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":542.941,"endTime":544.921,"body":"that you can really excite those."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":544.971,"endTime":549.621,"body":"This frequency depends again, on the,on the spin you want to excite, so"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":549.621,"endTime":555.771,"body":"you have to use a different frequencyfor hydrogen or, carbon and stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":556.356,"endTime":558.276,"body":"Kevin: Because the energylevels are different?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":559.941,"endTime":562.251,"body":"Anne: Yeah, they're split,um, they divide differently."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":563.081,"endTime":567.471,"body":"Kevin: When you radiate the, uh,nuclei, which are in the B zero"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":567.471,"endTime":571.671,"body":"field with the, um, radio frequency."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":571.671,"endTime":573.201,"body":"What happens then with the spins?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":574.011,"endTime":574.401,"body":"Anne: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":574.401,"endTime":579.261,"body":"So the, um, small amount ofspins, which can be excited"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":579.321,"endTime":581.271,"body":"change, its, its magnetization."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":581.901,"endTime":585.861,"body":"So those come through, like ingeneral all change magnetization,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":585.861,"endTime":587.301,"body":"but these ones are the excited ones."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":587.581,"endTime":593.161,"body":"And now they are excited and when youimagine a coordinating system, so in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":593.161,"endTime":598.421,"body":"beginning we have them, the long B zero,which is like the Z axis, and then you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":598.421,"endTime":601.876,"body":"excite them and they go into the XY plane."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":602.076,"endTime":602.496,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":603.116,"endTime":605.756,"body":"Anne: And in here we can detect them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":605.756,"endTime":610.916,"body":"So here are our detectors and what theydo now, if you do nothing, so you just"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":610.916,"endTime":613.313,"body":"excite them and then you stop the pulse."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":613.62,"endTime":615.45,"body":"So this is just a short pulse."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":615.45,"endTime":618.53,"body":"The B zero field is there all the time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":618.735,"endTime":623.285,"body":"It's constant, but uh, the radiofrequency puls is just a short one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":623.885,"endTime":629.885,"body":"And then in the XY plane you have all ofyour spins and then you stop the puls and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":629.885,"endTime":633.425,"body":"then they go back into their equilibrium."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":634.565,"endTime":641.705,"body":"And during this process we can detectthem until they are again, a long B zero"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":642.868,"endTime":648.458,"body":"Kevin: So everything that is not alignedwith B zero is measurable, basically."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":648.705,"endTime":650.115,"body":"Anne: yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":650.145,"endTime":652.455,"body":"But in the end there are back."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":652.868,"endTime":652.988,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":652.988,"endTime":656.768,"body":"They always go back to Tothe strong magnetic field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":657.75,"endTime":658.08,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":658.08,"endTime":661.02,"body":"So this is like the timethey need to go back."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":661.02,"endTime":662.28,"body":"It's called T one"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":662.28,"endTime":663.15,"body":"relaxation time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":664.17,"endTime":664.44,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":664.74,"endTime":671.06,"body":"So depending on the, the spins and alsothe sample and a lot of other things,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":671.42,"endTime":673.52,"body":"they need more or less time to to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":673.52,"endTime":673.67,"body":"go"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":673.67,"endTime":673.94,"body":"back."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":674.706,"endTime":675.243,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":675.293,"endTime":679.193,"body":"We also have another, um,relaxation, which is called T two."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":679.223,"endTime":686.473,"body":"So all these two relaxation influences,they define, how fast, dispense"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":686.923,"endTime":690.223,"body":"ate, um, back to the along B zero."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":690.733,"endTime":697.583,"body":"And what we measure is thisis called FID and the FID."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":697.613,"endTime":700.853,"body":"Now here comes also, againthe Fourier transformation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":700.983,"endTime":708.033,"body":"This is a, um, frequency, um,spectrum and we Fourier transform"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":708.033,"endTime":710.533,"body":"it to signals that we can read out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":711.013,"endTime":717.093,"body":"Um, and depending on all ofthese inferences the spins are,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":717.153,"endTime":721.743,"body":"um, affected during, duringthe time going back to B zero."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":722.403,"endTime":724.833,"body":"They have another, um, chemical shift."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":724.833,"endTime":728.073,"body":"And now one could askwhat is chemical shift?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":728.463,"endTime":732.513,"body":"And, yeah, that's the definitionof how much things are shielded."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":732.983,"endTime":738.315,"body":"yeah, so we have, the spec from themin the end with the chemical shift."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":738.685,"endTime":744.515,"body":"if you have, a strong interactionwith surrounding, atoms."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":744.925,"endTime":751.265,"body":"The chemical shift is higher, and if youare, like, if everything is shielded,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":751.595,"endTime":754.415,"body":"then you have a lower, um, chemical shift."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":754.448,"endTime":754.866,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":755.643,"endTime":758.363,"body":"Shielded is with, uh, electrons."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":760.195,"endTime":763.465,"body":"Anne: um, no, like moreelectrons in general mean higher,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":764.264,"endTime":765.974,"body":"higher, um, chemical shifts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":765.974,"endTime":771.959,"body":"So like, um, aromatic rings, they havea high, chemical shift, no shielded"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":771.979,"endTime":778.069,"body":"X, means that there are like, for likemethyl groups are highly shielded."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":778.069,"endTime":782.209,"body":"So they are just like the, thehydrogens and, uh, the carbons,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":782.209,"endTime":787.039,"body":"but no, and not so many, um, freeelectrons they can interact with."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":787.039,"endTime":790.549,"body":"So this means, means shielded, so no."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":791.359,"endTime":793.819,"body":"Yeah, like the lack of,um, interaction more or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":793.819,"endTime":794.119,"body":"less."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":794.137,"endTime":794.417,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":795.503,"endTime":801.053,"body":"Anne: And the unit is ppm andppm means parts per million."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":801.233,"endTime":805.883,"body":"And we use that, um, as aclever trick because we have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":805.883,"endTime":807.893,"body":"a lot of different magnets."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":807.893,"endTime":813.533,"body":"So the B zero field is not thesame for, for every spectrometer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":814.073,"endTime":818.913,"body":"But we want to compare thespectra with each other and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":818.913,"endTime":821.403,"body":"therefore we use ppm as units."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":821.403,"endTime":823.533,"body":"So, that's pretty useful"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":823.953,"endTime":829.143,"body":"Kevin: you can compare, for example,when you have a one Tesla magnet,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":829.563,"endTime":831.843,"body":"then you can, uh, measure something."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":831.993,"endTime":836.463,"body":"You will get your signals withthe Fourier transform, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":836.463,"endTime":839.763,"body":"then you can read out the ppm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":840.453,"endTime":843.753,"body":"And this will also be the samewhen you measure the same molecule"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":843.753,"endTime":850.893,"body":"in a different, uh, spectrometerwith a, uh, two Tesla magnet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":851.493,"endTime":851.913,"body":"I dunno."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":851.913,"endTime":854.913,"body":"What, what's the range ofmagnets you use for NMR?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":856.165,"endTime":858.295,"body":"Anne: Yeah, like the, the range is huge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":858.545,"endTime":864.37,"body":"But um, the ones we typically useare like starting from 400 megahertz."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":864.37,"endTime":870.67,"body":"So we usually don't use Tesla as, um,unit in, in NMR Tesla is more, um, common"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":870.67,"endTime":874.32,"body":"in EPR if I re remember it correctly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":874.8,"endTime":880.2,"body":"And like one can can say for sureTesla, but um, we say megahertz"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":880.59,"endTime":883.23,"body":"and so we starting with, uh, 400."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":883.38,"endTime":888.17,"body":"Um, but we have, uh, 1.2 gigahertzspectrometer and Frankfurt."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":888.74,"endTime":897.35,"body":"But the ones we usually use are, um,are the ones with around 600 or 850."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":897.68,"endTime":899.66,"body":"This is like we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":899.864,"endTime":900.284,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":900.53,"endTime":900.62,"body":"Anne: use."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":901.379,"endTime":902.039,"body":"Kevin: Quick break."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":902.28,"endTime":907.487,"body":"I want to reach more chemists, morescientists to share these discussions"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":907.487,"endTime":909.107,"body":"and hopefully spark new ideas."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":909.53,"endTime":911.87,"body":"For that, I want to aska small favor from you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":912.309,"endTime":913.719,"body":"Please hit the follow button."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":913.839,"endTime":918.129,"body":"This really helps me to grow the showand it doesn't cost you anything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":919.051,"endTime":919.891,"body":"Thank you for your time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":920.461,"endTime":921.391,"body":"Back to the episode."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":921.765,"endTime":927.195,"body":"And the gigahertz and megahertz, theyare derived from the proton frequency"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":927.195,"endTime":929.79,"body":"with this specific magnet, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":931.056,"endTime":931.716,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":931.716,"endTime":932.046,"body":"Yep,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":932.34,"endTime":936.683,"body":"Kevin: So that's how you canconvert from magnetic field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":937.153,"endTime":940.825,"body":"the Higher the frequency, thestronger the magnetic field would be,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":941.769,"endTime":947.255,"body":"Anne: yeah, so, um, the resolutionwith, um, higher magnets is, um, better"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":947.255,"endTime":951.455,"body":"because the s are more, more separated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":951.455,"endTime":957.425,"body":"So, and this is pretty useful for hydrogenbecause in general all of the substances"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":957.425,"endTime":962.445,"body":"we, investigate are with a lot of,hydrogens yeah this is a big advantage,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":962.445,"endTime":964.575,"body":"just that you have a higher resolution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":964.965,"endTime":969.595,"body":"For solid state NMR, it alsohas, um, some disadvantages."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":969.595,"endTime":973.568,"body":"Maybe I can come back to this laterbecause I think we should maybe"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":973.568,"endTime":974.978,"body":"start what the differences are."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":976.298,"endTime":977.768,"body":"Um, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":977.768,"endTime":983.888,"body":"I think like, just to, to sum it up,so we have, um, spins, proton spins"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":983.888,"endTime":990.338,"body":"in, in a B zero field and excite withB one, which is our radio frequency."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":991.388,"endTime":997.918,"body":"And we learn something about our,our sample, because we, detect what"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":997.918,"endTime":1000.328,"body":"happens when it comes back to B0"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1000.348,"endTime":1002.438,"body":"So this is the important time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1002.658,"endTime":1008.758,"body":"Kevin: The resonance, you basicallylisten to what the nuclei, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1008.758,"endTime":1014.777,"body":"Give back from this, uh, excitationyou give with the be B  right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1014.798,"endTime":1015.128,"body":"Anne: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1015.128,"endTime":1015.788,"body":"that's, Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1015.848,"endTime":1016.358,"body":"That's nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1016.358,"endTime":1016.628,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1016.688,"endTime":1017.198,"body":"We listen to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1018.977,"endTime":1023.547,"body":"Kevin: Also to maybe shortly explainhow really useful this Fourier"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1023.567,"endTime":1025.872,"body":"transformation is when you have, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1027.137,"endTime":1032.047,"body":"All these molecules in your solutionfor now, then, you would basically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1032.407,"endTime":1040.207,"body":"get a super noisy signal becauseyou hear all the nuclei at once."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1040.307,"endTime":1044.267,"body":"They all are a bit different,but they would overlay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1044.327,"endTime":1049.327,"body":"And with this Fourier transformation,you can get defined signals because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1049.327,"endTime":1053.537,"body":"each wave can be derived to one signal."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1054.532,"endTime":1054.822,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1055.007,"endTime":1058.997,"body":"I think more or less, I don't know howthis, it's really complicated math,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1058.997,"endTime":1064.967,"body":"so I don't know know exactly how thisworks, but basically it, it divides up"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1064.967,"endTime":1071.717,"body":"the different waveforms you get and thenyou get the one signal for each atom."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1072.818,"endTime":1073.598,"body":"Anne: Yeah, that's true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1073.598,"endTime":1074.948,"body":"So it's really complicated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1075.218,"endTime":1078.428,"body":"I did this once during mymaster and it was, wow,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1078.962,"endTime":1082.982,"body":"Kevin: You did it with like perhand, basically you calculated"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1083.318,"endTime":1083.738,"body":"Anne: no."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1083.738,"endTime":1088.328,"body":"In one, in one exam, we had to doactually Fourier transformation"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1088.328,"endTime":1090.188,"body":"by hand with a specific function."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1090.818,"endTime":1091.028,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1091.028,"endTime":1091.778,"body":"This sucked."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1093.338,"endTime":1094.208,"body":"And it was hard."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1094.208,"endTime":1097.538,"body":"It was pretty hard, butthis whole exam was crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1097.817,"endTime":1097.877,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1098.918,"endTime":1100.148,"body":"Anne: Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1100.148,"endTime":1101.198,"body":"But that's, yeah, that's true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1101.248,"endTime":1106.048,"body":"So what we, we still see the spectrum,or it's not a spectrum interest."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1106.048,"endTime":1110.038,"body":"We see a curve when beforewe, um, Fourier transform it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1110.088,"endTime":1114.358,"body":"It just looks like a wave,so you can't see anything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1114.808,"endTime":1119.848,"body":"And then we do the magic and then we, weactually see like just things I explained"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1119.848,"endTime":1122.278,"body":"with the chemical shift and Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1122.278,"endTime":1126.268,"body":"As very clever people with a lotof time and a lot of, um, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1127.528,"endTime":1129.238,"body":"a lot of thirst for knowledge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1129.238,"endTime":1133.338,"body":"They found out which substanceis, which chemical shifts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1133.388,"endTime":1135.998,"body":"So now that, that's a crazy thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1135.998,"endTime":1140.228,"body":"So now we know so many things about NMR,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1141.098,"endTime":1146.068,"body":"but all these people who, who got theNobel Prize, they were really crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1146.068,"endTime":1151.388,"body":"So this is amazing and yeah, I Ireally, I really love the method."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1151.438,"endTime":1156.438,"body":"I hope I could explain it a bit,but um, yeah, just, just as a, like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1156.438,"endTime":1161.058,"body":"the Bible for the more interestedpeople in NMR is definitely spin"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1161.058,"endTime":1163.578,"body":"dynamics by, um, Malcolm Levit"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1163.834,"endTime":1165.708,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, I can linkthat in the show notes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1166.016,"endTime":1169.156,"body":"Anne: it's the NMR, um, book from Kela."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1169.556,"endTime":1174.476,"body":"So these two books are, um, reallynice if you want to understand more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1174.776,"endTime":1177.716,"body":"It's a bit hard sometimesto explain it without"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1178.069,"endTime":1178.579,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1179.239,"endTime":1181.669,"body":"And also it is all this physics stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1181.669,"endTime":1187.789,"body":"The fundamentals are really complicated,and then when you apply all this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1187.789,"endTime":1193.459,"body":"knowledge that these people got us inthe past, then it gets a bit easier."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1193.459,"endTime":1198.829,"body":"But as you said, it's a bitdifficult to explain without images."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1200.096,"endTime":1200.936,"body":"Anne: yes, that's true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1201.492,"endTime":1201.782,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1201.882,"endTime":1208.262,"body":"To quickly sum this up, we have,uh, magnetic field B zero, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1208.562,"endTime":1210.262,"body":"aligns all the spins in the sample."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1211.372,"endTime":1217.862,"body":"Then we need NMR active nuclei to lookat, which is the case when at least one"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1217.962,"endTime":1223.422,"body":"of atomic number and mass number are odd."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1225.052,"endTime":1225.432,"body":"And then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1226.917,"endTime":1233.34,"body":"Uh, we get in this magnetic field zemandistribution, which splits them into"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1233.34,"endTime":1239.54,"body":"different energy levels and makes themexcitable with a second magnetic field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1239.78,"endTime":1240.18,"body":"B one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1241.09,"endTime":1250.87,"body":"This is usually a radio frequency and withthis radiofrequency, we excite the nuclei"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1251.61,"endTime":1260.58,"body":"and then we listen to the resonance ofthat, which is basically by the excitation"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1260.66,"endTime":1263.15,"body":"they get out of the alignment with B zero."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1264.845,"endTime":1270.455,"body":"That we can measure and then theybasically go back to uh, B zero."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1272.255,"endTime":1272.585,"body":"Anne: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1272.585,"endTime":1277.745,"body":"This is like the basic, um,this is how also MRI works."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1277.745,"endTime":1286.285,"body":"So protons, spins get excited and insolution NMR, the dynamics are completely"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1286.285,"endTime":1292.315,"body":"different compared to, um, solid samplesor in my case, membrane protein samples,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1292.315,"endTime":1295.395,"body":"which are definitely not, um, liquid."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1295.395,"endTime":1301.755,"body":"And, um, so the thing is insolution, everything averages out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1302.085,"endTime":1304.695,"body":"So we have a lot of isotropic effects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1304.695,"endTime":1311.055,"body":"We can see a lot of things and wecan see things we could also see"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1311.055,"endTime":1314.235,"body":"in solids, but which are absolutely"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1315.669,"endTime":1315.969,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1316.095,"endTime":1318.855,"body":"Anne: during, during ourmeasurements because yeah, we have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1318.855,"endTime":1319.335,"body":"other things"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1319.412,"endTime":1323.222,"body":"Kevin: In solution, they just movearound so much that they're basically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1323.222,"endTime":1328.142,"body":"in all orientations when you averageout all the molecules you have in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1328.142,"endTime":1333.272,"body":"your solution, and then you don'tsee these interactions, right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1333.662,"endTime":1338.132,"body":"But when they're in the solid, they'reconfined and they cannot move, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1338.132,"endTime":1343.697,"body":"then you see interactions that youwould not see in solution, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1344.933,"endTime":1345.283,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1345.283,"endTime":1345.793,"body":"More or less."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1345.793,"endTime":1350.383,"body":"So, so we have like, what we havein like, in solution, everything is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1350.383,"endTime":1354.373,"body":"like a, like a ball or like a sphere."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1354.943,"endTime":1359.143,"body":"And it's very, it's very roundand very perfectly shaped."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1359.593,"endTime":1363.223,"body":"So in every, like, again,imagine the coordination system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1363.733,"endTime":1365.803,"body":"Everything is perfectly shaped in this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1366.253,"endTime":1371.693,"body":"And what we have in solidseverything moves much, slower."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1372.023,"endTime":1374.753,"body":"We don't have justperfectly shaped sphere."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1374.753,"endTime":1380.013,"body":"We have a, like a tensor, whichis, um, elliptically shaped."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1380.013,"endTime":1384.553,"body":"So we have in one direction,is more than in the other one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1384.553,"endTime":1387.943,"body":"So, um, we have this un isotropy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1388.423,"endTime":1395.368,"body":"With this we, uh, comes to a bigproblem because, the signals are, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1395.728,"endTime":1399.363,"body":"not perfectly shaped like in solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1399.813,"endTime":1403.173,"body":"Uh, we have a, we have moreor less like a big signal."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1403.273,"endTime":1409.153,"body":"You can say that because, um, what we seeis not just one orientation or the average"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1409.183,"endTime":1412.273,"body":"out orientation, we just, we see a lot of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1412.87,"endTime":1413.29,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1413.955,"endTime":1420.195,"body":"And usually you want very thin signalsso you can distinguish between different"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1420.195,"endTime":1425.355,"body":"signals, but when they're all verybroad, then they overlap too much"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1425.355,"endTime":1426.69,"body":"and you don't basically see anything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1427.873,"endTime":1428.563,"body":"Anne: Yeah, that's true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1428.893,"endTime":1433.633,"body":"So what I, what I already said with,um, like with this, how the chemical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1433.633,"endTime":1438.673,"body":"shift comes, um, up, I mentioned thatit's depends on the, the available"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1438.673,"endTime":1440.713,"body":"electrons and the shielding and so on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1440.713,"endTime":1445.553,"body":"So what does the, the chemicalshift influence, uh, also the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1445.613,"endTime":1447.443,"body":"electrons and stuff around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1447.983,"endTime":1451.933,"body":"And, when you have differentorientations of your spin averaged"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1451.963,"endTime":1456.593,"body":"over the whole sample, you havedifferent interactions with the other"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1457.073,"endTime":1459.013,"body":"surrounding electrons and stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1459.253,"endTime":1463.423,"body":"So, and that's why we have a big, hugesignal and in the end you see nothing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1463.423,"endTime":1468.463,"body":"So this is, you can't read out thingsout of that that's completely crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1468.643,"endTime":1473.173,"body":"They are so clever people, they actuallyuse those information, which is amazing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1473.623,"endTime":1480.368,"body":"But for, me and with, um, macromolecules,uh, I already have a lot of problems"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1480.368,"endTime":1482.678,"body":"because I already have a lot of sickness."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1482.708,"endTime":1487.088,"body":"If I would just see just this bubblething, so I could not see anything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1487.568,"endTime":1490.488,"body":"So, we have to overcome this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1491.528,"endTime":1495.558,"body":"And what they did, which they, they couldnot do it in the beginning, but they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1495.558,"endTime":1499.198,"body":"already calculated it, is two things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1499.588,"endTime":1507.998,"body":"So at first we, um, spin the samplebecause we don't have this, small class"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1507.998,"endTime":1514.538,"body":"tube, we have a small rotor where oursamples are inside and we spin them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1514.538,"endTime":1519.338,"body":"So if they can't, if they are so slow,we help them and we spin them very fast"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1519.908,"endTime":1523.388,"body":"and we spin them at a specific angle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1523.418,"endTime":1529.858,"body":"This is called the magic angle,and this is at, 54, 74 degrees."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1529.858,"endTime":1532.138,"body":"So just remember 54."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1532.618,"endTime":1537.358,"body":"And um, this comes fromthe legendre polynomial."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1537.418,"endTime":1540.568,"body":"Um, yeah, a very, very big"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1541.275,"endTime":1541.605,"body":"Kevin: So they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1541.605,"endTime":1546.735,"body":"calculated this angle before theycould prove that it would work?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1546.735,"endTime":1546.795,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1548.55,"endTime":1548.77,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1548.908,"endTime":1549.688,"body":"Anne: exactly what they did."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1550.498,"endTime":1554.728,"body":"Oh, they did the math and then they werelike, okay, now engineers please help us."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1556.215,"endTime":1557.175,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1557.175,"endTime":1561.225,"body":"Because it's like, I just say like, okay,we have our rotors and then we rotate it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1561.255,"endTime":1566.767,"body":"But, uh, the engineering,beauty behind, it's, it's crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1566.767,"endTime":1570.937,"body":"It's because we rotatethe rotor on a small"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1571.267,"endTime":1571.627,"body":"air"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1571.627,"endTime":1571.897,"body":"pillow"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1572.898,"endTime":1574.358,"body":"Kevin: How fast are there?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1575.947,"endTime":1577.327,"body":"Anne: depending on what you are doing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1577.327,"endTime":1586.421,"body":"So, um, like in our lab we usuallygo from, um, eight kilohertz up to,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1586.511,"endTime":1590.52,"body":"usually we do go up to 20 kilohertz,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1591.028,"endTime":1591.808,"body":"Kevin: That's crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1592.348,"endTime":1596.608,"body":"20 kilohertz is a 20,000rotations per second."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1596.608,"endTime":1596.998,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1598.046,"endTime":1598.346,"body":"Anne: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1598.408,"endTime":1599.218,"body":"Kevin: That's crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1600.176,"endTime":1601.496,"body":"Anne: but it's getting crazier."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1601.546,"endTime":1602.696,"body":"Now it's getting nerdy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1602.716,"endTime":1610.066,"body":"Um, so, you have to rotate as fast asyour interaction you want to overcome."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1610.066,"endTime":1613.546,"body":"Um, um, is more or less."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1613.796,"endTime":1618.566,"body":"In solid state, NMR, we do notdetect hydrogens because, the,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1618.616,"endTime":1620.656,"body":"the signals are too broad."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1620.906,"endTime":1626.536,"body":"With hydrogens there's another problemthe amount of hydrogens in your NMR active"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1626.536,"endTime":1628.786,"body":"hydrogens in your sample is super high."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1629.176,"endTime":1633.196,"body":"And then what we do not averageout two in solid state, NMR"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1633.226,"endTime":1635.056,"body":"is also the dipolar coupling."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1635.806,"endTime":1641.236,"body":"And, um, in the dipolarcoupling between spins of the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1641.236,"endTime":1645.436,"body":"same, um, sort is very strong."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1645.496,"endTime":1648.946,"body":"And especially for hydrogens,because there are a lot of hydrogens."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1648.946,"endTime":1651.546,"body":"So they, yeah, co very strongly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1652.116,"endTime":1656.598,"body":"So what you see in the endis, just a big something."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1656.748,"endTime":1658.248,"body":"It's like it, it's like a he"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1660.275,"endTime":1662.165,"body":"Kevin: So, no sharp peak, just"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1663.018,"endTime":1666.528,"body":"Anne: no, it's just, yeah,it's just a he to be honest."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1666.528,"endTime":1666.873,"body":"It's just a, he."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1668.238,"endTime":1673.758,"body":"And then, um, to overcome that, youhave to rotate really, really fast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1673.848,"endTime":1677.478,"body":"Uh, around 1000 kilohertz."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1677.628,"endTime":1679.038,"body":"No, 100 kilohertz."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1679.038,"endTime":1680.988,"body":"But this is co 100,000"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1681.178,"endTime":1682.728,"body":"Hertz, so now it's correct."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1683.85,"endTime":1684.863,"body":"So this is pretty fast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1685.206,"endTime":1685.536,"body":"Kevin: Damn."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1685.566,"endTime":1685.986,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1686.3,"endTime":1693.77,"body":"so like alone, the, the engineering onhow all these materials can withstand"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1693.8,"endTime":1701.01,"body":"this extreme forces that are generatedthrough this rotation is crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1701.473,"endTime":1704.883,"body":"Anne: Yeah, a thing why werotate a bit, uh, slower is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1704.883,"endTime":1707.073,"body":"also because of the rotor size."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1707.493,"endTime":1713.103,"body":"You can't rotate big rotors with muchsample what, what you need and to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1713.103,"endTime":1718.633,"body":"detect something because an NMR is notreally sensitive because, this netto"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1718.653,"endTime":1723.783,"body":"Magnetization, which I introducedin the beginning, this is just, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1723.783,"endTime":1725.653,"body":"when you remember it, just a few"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1725.903,"endTime":1726.443,"body":"spins."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1727.073,"endTime":1730.713,"body":"So, you need a lot of samplejust to actually see something."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1731.253,"endTime":1737.633,"body":"And for Bio NMR you need a lot of samplebecause you have not a good resolution"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1737.633,"endTime":1741.923,"body":"as you have a lot of spins and a lotof, like, this, this whole molecule"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1741.923,"endTime":1748.033,"body":"is super big and therefore we can'trotate super fast, but it's okay for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1749.458,"endTime":1753.898,"body":"The things we detect, like carbonand nitrogen, the, the spinning"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1753.958,"endTime":1755.758,"body":"frequencies, they are enough."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1756.388,"endTime":1759.978,"body":"But, if you want to detect thehydrogen stuff, you have to go"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1760.038,"endTime":1762.588,"body":"much faster, as I explained."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1762.588,"endTime":1764.868,"body":"There the rotors, they, they shrink."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1765.378,"endTime":1772.548,"body":"So they go from, uh, 4.2millimeter to 0.3 millimeter."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1773.343,"endTime":1777.633,"body":"And imagine like the engineering partis crazy because in the beginning"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1777.633,"endTime":1779.073,"body":"you had this with the angle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1779.073,"endTime":1781.053,"body":"So you have to put in the sample."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1781.053,"endTime":1785.183,"body":"And this has to be perfectlyorientated in the probe head."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1785.493,"endTime":1789.433,"body":"And then it has to, um, has torotate perfectly in the probe"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1789.433,"endTime":1795.033,"body":"head over a lot of temperatureranges where also things change."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1795.423,"endTime":1799.953,"body":"And then you go smaller and smallerand smaller, rotate faster and faster"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1799.953,"endTime":1801.933,"body":"and faster and yeah, it's crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1802.383,"endTime":1809.343,"body":"So we have those small rotors andyou fill them with like, just,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1809.763,"endTime":1816.003,"body":"just drops off your sample and weneed a, um, microscope for that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1817.623,"endTime":1817.983,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1818.375,"endTime":1824.645,"body":"Kevin: So to basically fill the solidin this tiny tube, you use a microscope?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1825.813,"endTime":1826.113,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1826.113,"endTime":1827.098,"body":"To see what you are doing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1828.275,"endTime":1829.295,"body":"Kevin: Okay, interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1830.193,"endTime":1830.613,"body":"Anne: Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1831.663,"endTime":1834.873,"body":"Yeah, it's not, uh, and then in theend, you don't know if it rotates."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1835.685,"endTime":1835.955,"body":"Kevin: no,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1836.763,"endTime":1837.813,"body":"Anne: Yeah, that's, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1838.023,"endTime":1838.893,"body":"This is really crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1838.893,"endTime":1842.373,"body":"So it's very expensive and,but when it works, it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1842.373,"endTime":1842.613,"body":"nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1842.945,"endTime":1847.835,"body":"Kevin: yeah, that's a reallyunique way to, to measure it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1848.255,"endTime":1852.185,"body":"'cause you can, um, get alot of information then that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1852.185,"endTime":1854.105,"body":"you wouldn't get otherwise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1854.345,"endTime":1860.155,"body":"Anne: What we see is that, um,okay, what we do in the basic,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1860.215,"endTime":1864.595,"body":"experiment in solid state, NMR,it's called, um, cross polarization."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1865.045,"endTime":1872.225,"body":"So, uh, here, because the 13 C and15 N nuclei, there are not highly"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1872.225,"endTime":1877.345,"body":"abundant usually, and also thegyromagnetic ratio is not super good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1878.005,"endTime":1885.595,"body":"So what we do is to excite, uh, protonspins and then, um, we hold them"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1885.675,"endTime":1888.945,"body":"under a specific condition, whichis called Hartmann Hahn condition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1889.425,"endTime":1894.985,"body":"And here the magnetization,um, um, goes from the excited"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1894.985,"endTime":1897.685,"body":"protons to the unexcited carbons."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1898.255,"endTime":1902.725,"body":"This also has something to dowith Boltzmann equation and warm"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1902.725,"endTime":1905.305,"body":"spins and cold spins and stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1905.305,"endTime":1908.305,"body":"So everything goes from warm to cold."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1908.305,"endTime":1914.134,"body":"And because that's, how thingswork and in thermodynamics and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1914.234,"endTime":1917.444,"body":"now the, um, carbons are excited."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1918.494,"endTime":1921.224,"body":"Um, even if you did not excitethem directly, which is nicely"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1921.224,"endTime":1924.374,"body":"because then the relaxation timesare better than with the carbons."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1924.794,"endTime":1930.954,"body":"And so we can see the, um,hydrogens indirectly because we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1930.954,"endTime":1934.694,"body":"can see where, which, carbons we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1934.694,"endTime":1937.724,"body":"excited and also,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1937.936,"endTime":1939.586,"body":"Kevin: I think for this is also important."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1939.586,"endTime":1947.896,"body":"Maybe some of the listeners don'tknow that, um, only the Carbon 13 is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1949.066,"endTime":1950.266,"body":"And the more active, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1950.266,"endTime":1950.704,"body":"Anne: hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1951.636,"endTime":1956.556,"body":"Kevin: to have, a carbon 13instead of carbon 12 is very low."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1956.556,"endTime":1960.816,"body":"So that also reduces the amountof nuclei you can see, right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1960.816,"endTime":1968.351,"body":"Or can you also, excite with thiscross, uh, what was the name?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1970.004,"endTime":1971.324,"body":"Anne: Cross, uh, cross polarization."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1971.624,"endTime":1971.954,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1972.014,"endTime":1973.364,"body":"Uh, maybe I mixed things up."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1973.364,"endTime":1974.864,"body":"Um, I think it's a bit misleading."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1974.864,"endTime":1979.364,"body":"So, um, so the main part, uh, themain reason why we do this cross"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1979.364,"endTime":1984.514,"body":"polarization is that we, uses thebetter gyromagnetic ratio of the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1984.514,"endTime":1986.304,"body":"hydrogens compared with the carbons."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1987.844,"endTime":1990.914,"body":"But we just see the 13C carbons that for sure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1991.304,"endTime":1997.954,"body":"And, what we do to yeah, wehave to, label our samplets."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1998.014,"endTime":2006.594,"body":"So they are, it's pretty expensive,but you can produce, 13, um, c um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2006.594,"endTime":2011.924,"body":"isotopes, via specificchemical experiments."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2011.924,"endTime":2015.824,"body":"Or there are, um, like, justyeah, fabrics that do that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2015.824,"endTime":2016.994,"body":"So industries"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2017.076,"endTime":2017.746,"body":"Kevin: Particular"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2017.856,"endTime":2020.036,"body":"accelerator, I think."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2020.474,"endTime":2023.084,"body":"Anne: yeah, and sometimes also labs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2023.114,"endTime":2027.494,"body":"So if you need something specifically,also some organic labs do that and they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2027.494,"endTime":2034.084,"body":"labor, um, the, the things you want to,to investigate and with the proteins"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2034.084,"endTime":2036.934,"body":"as we express our proteins in cells."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2037.624,"endTime":2042.124,"body":"We add the, the isotopesinto our, um, cell solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2042.674,"endTime":2043.401,"body":"and then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2043.461,"endTime":2044.061,"body":"we hope"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2044.198,"endTime":2044.391,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2044.441,"endTime":2045.964,"body":"Anne: equally bacteria"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2046.504,"endTime":2051.988,"body":"Kevin: for your proteins, you actuallyincrease the amount of, uh, carbon"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2051.988,"endTime":2054.598,"body":"13 in your sample to see more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2054.658,"endTime":2055.408,"body":"Uh, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2056.771,"endTime":2056.951,"body":"Anne: And"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2057.058,"endTime":2057.688,"body":"Kevin: Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2057.748,"endTime":2058.498,"body":"Okay, cool."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2058.888,"endTime":2060.778,"body":"And then, uh, sorry I interrupted."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2061.018,"endTime":2063.508,"body":"It's, uh, you use the bacteria to do that?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2064.243,"endTime":2064.533,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2064.691,"endTime":2065.111,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2065.741,"endTime":2067.685,"body":"So we have our, bacteria."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2067.685,"endTime":2071.555,"body":"So depending on the things you wantto investigate, you have to choose"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2071.605,"endTime":2073.835,"body":"an appropriate, how is it called?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2074.165,"endTime":2075.845,"body":"Like bacterias or something?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2076.055,"endTime":2078.965,"body":"Sometimes people dothings with, um, yeasts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2079.565,"endTime":2084.185,"body":"Um, but in my case, um, thank you,God, I can just use equally because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2084.185,"endTime":2088.745,"body":"this is the easiest way to do it, andthey do not stink that much as yeast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2088.791,"endTime":2089.271,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2090.68,"endTime":2091.265,"body":"Anne: Uh oh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2091.265,"endTime":2091.835,"body":"It's crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2092.241,"endTime":2092.481,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2092.481,"endTime":2096.411,"body":"One of, uh, the previous guests, healso did some yeast research and then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2097.731,"endTime":2098.811,"body":"that Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2098.871,"endTime":2101.721,"body":"She also said that isvery smelly in the lab."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2102.755,"endTime":2103.835,"body":"Anne: oh, it's, it's crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2104.165,"endTime":2107.075,"body":"Um, there are pictures of mewith, uh, tissues in my nose"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2107.075,"endTime":2109.445,"body":"because I can't, I can't do it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2109.745,"endTime":2115.205,"body":"The, the smell is so, so crazy becauseone of my colleagues uses yeast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2116.091,"endTime":2116.571,"body":"Kevin: so good"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2116.571,"endTime":2118.101,"body":"that you can use the bacteria."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2118.715,"endTime":2119.975,"body":"Anne: Yeah, they are much better."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2120.215,"endTime":2124.065,"body":"And um, yeah, this isa very common routine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2124.065,"endTime":2126.165,"body":"So, so this is the easiest way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2127.095,"endTime":2131.525,"body":"And yeah, we, we just give themthe isotopes and then they start"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2131.585,"endTime":2136.285,"body":"to use those isotopes for theirprotein metabolism and yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2136.645,"endTime":2141.355,"body":"And, but if you want to, um, label justspecific amino acids, so in my case I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2141.355,"endTime":2147.145,"body":"am focusing on histamines and I justgive them the histamines, um, labeled."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2147.325,"endTime":2154.315,"body":"So you can choose fully labeledwith 30 C or 15 N or just just one"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2154.615,"endTime":2155.335,"body":"or the other."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2155.371,"endTime":2155.791,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2156.131,"endTime":2156.511,"body":"And then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2156.776,"endTime":2162.746,"body":"you get a lot more of these NMRactive nuclei in your sample, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2162.746,"endTime":2168.776,"body":"then that increases what you cansee because I remember from the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2168.806,"endTime":2174.506,"body":"normal solution, NMR, where youdon't do this labeling, um, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2174.506,"endTime":2181.616,"body":"The uh, carbon 13 measurementswould take a lot longer than the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2182.606,"endTime":2188.696,"body":"NMR, uh, because it's just solittle active nuclei for that,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2189.85,"endTime":2190.69,"body":"Anne: Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2190.69,"endTime":2196.84,"body":"So the, the amount of laterallyactive carbon nuclei is 1%."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2196.84,"endTime":2201.97,"body":"So we just have 1% 13 Cisotopes naturally, and for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2201.97,"endTime":2203.98,"body":"nitrogen it's, it's worse."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2204.46,"endTime":2209.15,"body":"Uh, we have 0.4%, so this is not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2209.155,"endTime":2209.325,"body":"good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2209.381,"endTime":2211.351,"body":"Kevin: that it's reallyimportant then to label it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2211.65,"endTime":2217.53,"body":"Anne: Yeah, we definitely have toincrease the number for, for appropriate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2217.63,"endTime":2221.83,"body":"measurements because to run thosemagnets, it's, it's expensive and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2221.83,"endTime":2227.44,"body":"also it's a completely useless ifyou measure over, over weeks and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2227.44,"endTime":2229.69,"body":"the signal to noise is still shitty."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2229.75,"endTime":2234.61,"body":"So yes, that's, that's why we do thatusually that we label our samples."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2235.18,"endTime":2240.81,"body":"And, uh, the second thing the dipolar, um,coupling, uh, it's annoying when you just"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2240.81,"endTime":2242.61,"body":"want to see something in the beginning."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2242.799,"endTime":2246.909,"body":"But sometimes it's usefulif you want to check."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2246.969,"endTime":2253.239,"body":"Um, in, in solution NMR,you usually do those NOEs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2253.449,"endTime":2258.819,"body":"So depending on the electronicinteraction between the nuclei,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2258.819,"endTime":2263.229,"body":"you can say something about, uh,vicinity of nucle to each other, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2263.229,"endTime":2265.059,"body":"gives you interesting information."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2265.509,"endTime":2268.769,"body":"And we can do the samewith the dipolar coupling."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2269.099,"endTime":2273.929,"body":"Kevin: So you can derive the structuremore easily because you can also see"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2273.929,"endTime":2279.629,"body":"interactions between, uh, nuclei that arenot necessarily next to each other, but"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2279.629,"endTime":2283.139,"body":"just in the room there next to each other."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2283.139,"endTime":2288.479,"body":"And they could be several aminoacids apart in the chain, but"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2289.619,"endTime":2291.449,"body":"in space they could be close."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2291.449,"endTime":2293.141,"body":"And then you can see those interactions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2294.087,"endTime":2296.217,"body":"Anne: No, no, not that easy to be honest."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2296.217,"endTime":2298.917,"body":"In solid state, and the thingyou, the thing is you have to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2298.917,"endTime":2301.957,"body":"have a very precise question."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2303.037,"endTime":2305.527,"body":"Otherwise you see absolutely nothing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2305.947,"endTime":2310.807,"body":"But what we can do is to see if, um,for example, if there is a hydrogen bond"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2311.377,"endTime":2313.807,"body":"between two amino acids, which are not."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2314.722,"endTime":2316.222,"body":"Directly next to each other."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2316.222,"endTime":2319.822,"body":"This one, this some, this issomething we could detect, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2319.822,"endTime":2324.062,"body":"before via other, other methods."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2324.362,"endTime":2328.532,"body":"But the hydrogen bond is something thatwe can detect with a bipolar coupling"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2328.569,"endTime":2328.989,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2329.882,"endTime":2334.502,"body":"Anne: and for example, ifthey are at another, um, alpha"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2334.532,"endTime":2336.652,"body":"helix, but it's in vicinity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2337.042,"endTime":2341.092,"body":"But for that, you have to have,you have to have the precise"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2341.142,"endTime":2343.182,"body":"question because you have to label."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2344.262,"endTime":2345.522,"body":"The, all those things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2345.522,"endTime":2349.202,"body":"Otherwise you see nothing and youhave to find a perfect experiment"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2349.202,"endTime":2354.152,"body":"because dipolar coupling to detectthem, it's not easy because if you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2354.152,"endTime":2358.802,"body":"reintroduce them, so usually you rotatethat you don't have them anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2359.132,"endTime":2361.802,"body":"Now you want to reintroducebipolar coupling."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2361.802,"endTime":2366.392,"body":"So there are specific pulse sequenceswhere you reintroduce the bipolar"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2366.392,"endTime":2369.962,"body":"coupling, but then you really haveto have to know what you want to see."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2370.262,"endTime":2372.932,"body":"And that's something I, um, do right now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2372.962,"endTime":2378.022,"body":"And it's crazy because in the beginningyou don't know what you will see, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2378.022,"endTime":2379.762,"body":"because you never did that before."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2380.032,"endTime":2383.927,"body":"And in the end, again you justsee signals, but you don't"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2383.927,"endTime":2386.177,"body":"know is this the correct one?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2386.227,"endTime":2387.007,"body":"What's that?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2387.037,"endTime":2390.427,"body":"Is it a artifact or isit, is it a real signal?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2390.457,"endTime":2391.357,"body":"What, what is that?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2392.167,"endTime":2392.827,"body":"that's, that's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2392.832,"endTime":2392.932,"body":"a."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2393.124,"endTime":2393.414,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2393.879,"endTime":2394.089,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2394.089,"endTime":2398.819,"body":"Now, now you talked a bitabout the puls experiments."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2399.239,"endTime":2405.299,"body":"I think that maybe we should alsomention that, uh, depending on these"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2405.329,"endTime":2409.979,"body":"radio frequency, pulse, how strongthey are, how long they are, and how"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2410.009,"endTime":2414.329,"body":"much time you wait in between, you getdifferent results or how does that work?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2415.044,"endTime":2415.334,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2415.722,"endTime":2419.282,"body":"Anne: Yeah, so the simplestexperiment and, in solid state"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2419.412,"endTime":2421.302,"body":"NMR are also in solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2421.302,"endTime":2427.272,"body":"NMR is just to excite and then todetect, and depending on which,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2427.782,"endTime":2429.282,"body":"it's just a simple 1D spectrum."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2429.402,"endTime":2434.792,"body":"So depending on which channel youdetect, you see the, the signals from the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2434.792,"endTime":2443.312,"body":"hydrogens or from the, from the whateverand the like, the longer you excite"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2444.167,"endTime":2452.597,"body":"during this first puls, the strongerthe excitation is, and, yeah, now the,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2452.627,"endTime":2453.917,"body":"like, this is something one could say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2453.917,"endTime":2461.047,"body":"So like you, you want to have the partsas long as possible and as strong as"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2461.047,"endTime":2463.567,"body":"possible to really excite everything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2464.227,"endTime":2466.807,"body":"But the limitation is,again, the hardware."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2466.867,"endTime":2469.807,"body":"So you can't excite for,for, for every time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2470.357,"endTime":2476.677,"body":"Usually for 1D measurements we exciteup to five microseconds because,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2476.737,"endTime":2481.397,"body":"um, after that time, especiallywith the, with the strenght of the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2481.397,"endTime":2483.737,"body":"pulse, you get hardware problems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2483.927,"endTime":2491.967,"body":"Probe heads are very sensitive and, for2D Spectra, so, so now we can see 1D, but"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2492.027,"endTime":2495.327,"body":"um, we want to see some interactions so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2496.077,"endTime":2498.987,"body":"To, to see that we wait a bit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2499.497,"endTime":2503.007,"body":"And then depending on the pulsesequence and depending on what"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2503.007,"endTime":2505.777,"body":"you want to see you given the next"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2505.777,"endTime":2509.797,"body":"pulse from, there are a lotof things you can change."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2509.797,"endTime":2516.007,"body":"So like the length of the pulse orthe direction of the pulse and how,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2516.037,"endTime":2519.227,"body":"how much you excite the signals."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2519.247,"endTime":2526.417,"body":"So we differentiate between an 90degrees or 100, um, 80 degrees."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2527.017,"endTime":2531.607,"body":"And depending on that, you, um,you see different phenomena."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2532.477,"endTime":2537.877,"body":"And, um, if you go back tothis coordination system in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2537.877,"endTime":2544.447,"body":"beginning, we excite from that tothe XY plane, then the spins go"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2544.447,"endTime":2547.357,"body":"back and if you excite them again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2547.807,"endTime":2551.097,"body":"They are not completelyback in the B zero."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2551.157,"endTime":2553.107,"body":"Um, along, along that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2553.107,"endTime":2556.497,"body":"So you find them somewhere in between."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2557.367,"endTime":2561.987,"body":"And this gives you information becausehere they have, and again, another"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2561.987,"endTime":2567.257,"body":"kind of chemical shift and this is,gives you cross signals and there"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2567.257,"endTime":2569.207,"body":"you can get a lot of information"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2569.578,"endTime":2575.659,"body":"Kevin: So there you could, um, detectsomething when you excite the protons,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2575.759,"endTime":2578.399,"body":"which are easy to detect, to say it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2578.399,"endTime":2579.179,"body":"simplistic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2579.539,"endTime":2584.399,"body":"And then with that, you basically lookat the interactions of the protons"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2584.399,"endTime":2590.549,"body":"with the carbons, and then you can getinformation about the carbons without"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2590.609,"endTime":2593.939,"body":"having to excite the carbons itself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2596.037,"endTime":2600.702,"body":"Anne: Um, yeah, more or less, the yeah,you can do that, but you have like, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2600.702,"endTime":2604.332,"body":"pulse sequence is a bit different, butin, in general it's, it's like that,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2604.692,"endTime":2609.702,"body":"depending on where your pulses is onwhich channel you, you can see difference."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2609.702,"endTime":2610.062,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2610.572,"endTime":2610.872,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2611.622,"endTime":2614.712,"body":"Puls sequences are a big thing for them,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2615.419,"endTime":2615.569,"body":"Kevin: be"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2617.232,"endTime":2617.922,"body":"Anne: yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2618.582,"endTime":2623.652,"body":"But the easiest way is toexcite, uh, hydrogens, uh, twice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2623.844,"endTime":2624.344,"body":"Kevin: Oh, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2624.389,"endTime":2627.419,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2627.492,"endTime":2629.022,"body":"Anne: easiest, um, experiment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2629.022,"endTime":2630.043,"body":"And this is very useful too."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2632.052,"endTime":2636.872,"body":"Yeah, this is actually somethingbiological, um, NMR, people from"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2636.872,"endTime":2642.402,"body":"solutions that NMR do to to assignthe amino acids of a protein and in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2642.402,"endTime":2645.522,"body":"the end, end to resolve the structure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2646.182,"endTime":2652.062,"body":"So now usually we use x-ray or, um,electronic microscopy, but, um, solution"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2652.062,"endTime":2656.472,"body":"NMR is still, or NMR in general isstill useful, especially if you want"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2656.472,"endTime":2662.752,"body":"to have the dynamics that's, uh,that's a big point of NMR dynamics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2662.752,"endTime":2668.702,"body":"Um, they are still existing inNMR, so we really can see what,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2668.822,"endTime":2671.042,"body":"what happens on a dynamically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2671.354,"endTime":2671.774,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2672.589,"endTime":2678.739,"body":"And, uh, when you now come to yoursolid state NMR, what is the advantage?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2679.459,"endTime":2685.219,"body":"To see the proteins, uh, in, inthe solid form instead of liquid?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2686.867,"endTime":2692.757,"body":"Anne: So, um, we don't lookinto soluble proteins for sure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2692.757,"endTime":2695.547,"body":"So they are perfectly in solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2695.877,"endTime":2700.407,"body":"No, we want to, like I do, um,to investigate membrane proteins"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2700.887,"endTime":2706.227,"body":"and yeah membrane proteins aresuper important to investigate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2706.317,"endTime":2710.557,"body":"Um, more specifically becausethe cell membrane is super"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2710.557,"endTime":2712.327,"body":"interesting what happens there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2712.777,"endTime":2718.777,"body":"It's also a few, like one of my colleaguesis working with LTBT to, um be BFG."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2719.947,"endTime":2720.307,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2720.367,"endTime":2723.997,"body":"Uh, I think I, I think I putit in the correct direction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2724.837,"endTime":2728.437,"body":"And this is a protein that, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2729.502,"endTime":2729.862,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2730.402,"endTime":2734.692,"body":"Brings LPS in bacteria, cells in, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2734.692,"endTime":2735.322,"body":"Gram-negative"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2735.539,"endTime":2736.059,"body":"Kevin: LPS"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2736.372,"endTime":2738.262,"body":"Anne: LPS is lipopolysaccharide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2738.262,"endTime":2743.062,"body":"So it's something important forthe, for the gram-negative bacteria,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2743.122,"endTime":2748.222,"body":"they put it, um, outside of the,like, on the outer membrane of them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2748.612,"endTime":2753.202,"body":"And they have a structurebuilt by those polysaccharides."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2753.232,"endTime":2758.182,"body":"And this structure makes it reallydifficult to, um, kill those"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2758.409,"endTime":2758.859,"body":"Kevin: Mm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2758.872,"endTime":2762.142,"body":"Anne: like it's their, sheYeah, I think that's a good"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2762.352,"endTime":2762.592,"body":"that's a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2762.592,"endTime":2762.772,"body":"good"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2762.849,"endTime":2767.679,"body":"Kevin: And with, with, uh, the solidstate, NMR, you can, uh, look at"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2767.679,"endTime":2770.919,"body":"those, which would not be possiblebecause they're not really soluble."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2771.802,"endTime":2774.442,"body":"Anne: Um, no, we canlook further into those."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2774.442,"endTime":2778.852,"body":"Um, LPS, um, um, protein,uh, moving protein."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2778.852,"endTime":2784.012,"body":"So this LPTB two fg, this is theprotein, or it's part of a big protein"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2784.252,"endTime":2789.262,"body":"that transports the LPS from theinner membrane to the outer membrane."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2789.652,"endTime":2796.492,"body":"And you can't really, um, see how itfunctions this protein when you just"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2796.492,"endTime":2798.892,"body":"look it into solution because, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2799.522,"endTime":2804.142,"body":"It has really has to be in the, in themembrane to really see how it functions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2804.142,"endTime":2807.902,"body":"So it has to be in themost native surrounding."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2807.902,"endTime":2809.792,"body":"And that's the, that's the biggest point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2809.792,"endTime":2812.612,"body":"So we have membrane proteins for sure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2812.672,"endTime":2817.502,"body":"We in detergents or nanos, wecan investigate them, but it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2817.502,"endTime":2819.182,"body":"not their native environment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2819.482,"endTime":2826.172,"body":"So the information we gain thereis maybe not correct because it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2826.172,"endTime":2828.092,"body":"not in their native environment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2828.092,"endTime":2831.752,"body":"So the best way to investigatemembrane proteins is for sure to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2831.752,"endTime":2833.402,"body":"investigate them in membranes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2833.462,"endTime":2839.177,"body":"And membranes are solid, andthat's why we use solid state Mr."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2839.639,"endTime":2839.929,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2839.944,"endTime":2845.474,"body":"So you don't have to modify them, so,uh, with this solid state, NMI, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2845.474,"endTime":2847.544,"body":"can look at them, how they're actually."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2848.414,"endTime":2853.034,"body":"Or close to how the air wouldfunction and not in solution"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2853.034,"endTime":2856.119,"body":"where they get de naturated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2856.979,"endTime":2857.269,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2857.322,"endTime":2858.012,"body":"Anne: Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2858.012,"endTime":2860.562,"body":"No, they're not derated, but in detergent."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2860.562,"endTime":2864.372,"body":"So yeah, they are in those micells things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2864.372,"endTime":2865.002,"body":"So, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2866.082,"endTime":2868.602,"body":"So now if you like,this is a good example."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2868.602,"endTime":2871.692,"body":"This a PT two FAPT, B two FD oh my god."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2871.692,"endTime":2872.892,"body":"This is a long word name."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2873.432,"endTime":2879.882,"body":"Um, it's a big, a nice example in general,like, like why this, um, is important"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2879.882,"endTime":2886.857,"body":"because if a lot of gram-negative bacteriaare resistant, um against antibiotics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2886.907,"endTime":2893.947,"body":"And, um, this is a big problem and thisfundamental research that my colleagues"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2893.947,"endTime":2900.677,"body":"and a lot of other people from, frommy university do, is to investigate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2900.677,"endTime":2908.177,"body":"those proteins and to help how theyfunction and yeah, to help to yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2908.177,"endTime":2915.767,"body":"Find solutions, how we can overcomethem or this LPS um, shield barrier"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2916.247,"endTime":2923.117,"body":"to, um, yeah, to overcome thoseresistances because, uh, multi-resistant,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2923.177,"endTime":2925.697,"body":"uh, bacteria, they, um, are not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2925.997,"endTime":2926.357,"body":"very"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2926.417,"endTime":2926.747,"body":"helpful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2926.794,"endTime":2928.474,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, that's,that's a huge challenge"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2928.974,"endTime":2929.214,"body":"okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2929.214,"endTime":2933.294,"body":"Maybe we can now go to your research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2934.344,"endTime":2938.094,"body":"What do you use the,um, solid state and for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2940.396,"endTime":2944.286,"body":"Anne: Yeah, so I investigate,um, xenorhodopsins, it's a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2944.286,"endTime":2945.466,"body":"microbiome rhodopsins."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2945.486,"endTime":2949.176,"body":"So rhodopsins are photo proteins."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2949.226,"endTime":2955.796,"body":"Nice thing is they have a color because,um, they absorb light and imitate light."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2955.796,"endTime":2958.706,"body":"So then you see a color and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2958.806,"endTime":2961.386,"body":"Like there are a lot of reasons why."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2961.776,"endTime":2968.616,"body":"By those proteins do this, um, in, in oureyes, it's not a microbio rhodopsin, but,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2968.706,"endTime":2971.301,"body":"um, we have also rhodopsins in our, in our"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2971.301,"endTime":2975.946,"body":"eyes, so we use this phenomenon of, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2977.206,"endTime":2977.686,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2977.866,"endTime":2982.936,"body":"Light induced reactionsto see something and, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2983.089,"endTime":2986.23,"body":"Kevin: rhodopsins do similarstuff, but Not in the eye."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2987.946,"endTime":2988.876,"body":"Anne: Yeah, that's true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2988.936,"endTime":2994.126,"body":"So like also like yeah, more or less inalso in like photos synthesis is also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2994.126,"endTime":2998.446,"body":"kind of a react photo reaction, or it'sdefinitely a photo reaction, but yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2999.016,"endTime":3000.906,"body":"Not with the same, same thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3001.296,"endTime":3003.756,"body":"But um, yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3003.756,"endTime":3005.116,"body":"microbio rhodopsins."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3005.136,"endTime":3007.476,"body":"There are a lot in, a lot of, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3008.376,"endTime":3012.006,"body":"A lot of organisms, so youfind them actually everywhere."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3012.486,"endTime":3018.796,"body":"And it's a way to, to produce energyor to use the energy from, from the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3018.796,"endTime":3022.136,"body":"sun and there are a lot of functions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3022.136,"endTime":3029.476,"body":"So some of them pump ions, some ofthem are like act, there's an activate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3029.806,"endTime":3035.716,"body":"activation of a, of a ion channelor um, like a sensor of something."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3035.716,"endTime":3039.906,"body":"So there are a lot of functions whichare useful for, for the, for the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3039.906,"endTime":3042.036,"body":"organism they originally come from."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3042.516,"endTime":3045.516,"body":"And my single rod, it's from nano Salina."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3046.071,"endTime":3047.661,"body":"And it's, uh, akea."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3047.841,"endTime":3049.461,"body":"So it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3049.761,"endTime":3050.721,"body":"not a bacteria"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3050.721,"endTime":3053.181,"body":"and it's not a, a acidic cell."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3053.181,"endTime":3054.771,"body":"It's something in something else."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3056.151,"endTime":3059.421,"body":"To be honest, it's, I don'treally know because I am not a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3059.421,"endTime":3060.141,"body":"biologist."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3060.191,"endTime":3062.111,"body":"Kevin: Very primitive life forms."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3062.111,"endTime":3064.326,"body":"I think they're mucholder even than bacteria,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3065.673,"endTime":3066.543,"body":"Anne: Yeah, yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3066.543,"endTime":3069.083,"body":"And they live in very weird environments."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3069.103,"endTime":3070.153,"body":"So this nano"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3070.153,"endTime":3074.173,"body":"Salina xenorhodopsin comesfrom Lake Tyre in Australia."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3074.173,"endTime":3074.813,"body":"It's a salt"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3074.833,"endTime":3075.193,"body":"lake."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3075.943,"endTime":3077.293,"body":"And, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3077.563,"endTime":3077.713,"body":"yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3077.713,"endTime":3079.843,"body":"this is a, a proton pump."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3080.773,"endTime":3088.363,"body":"And, um, usually the pro proton pumpswe, we know, or we, we knew are,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3088.463,"endTime":3090.293,"body":"outwardly directed proton pumps."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3090.293,"endTime":3094.823,"body":"So they pump protons from the innerpart of the cell, outwardly directed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3095.213,"endTime":3098.783,"body":"And this, um, xenorhodopsinis inwardly directed,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3099.113,"endTime":3105.623,"body":"which is pretty nice because now I'mdoing the, um, fundamental research stuff"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3105.623,"endTime":3110.993,"body":"to, to understand how the photocycle,so this is called the sole process,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3111.293,"endTime":3119.293,"body":"where the protein uses the energy to dothe proton pumping, uh the sun energy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3120.013,"endTime":3124.603,"body":"But the, in the end where, whereall those information end is called"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3124.633,"endTime":3126.913,"body":"a dys feed is called optogenetics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3127.303,"endTime":3134.158,"body":"And optogenetics is something that,you can imagine that the aim is that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3135.178,"endTime":3140.338,"body":"You can activate processeswith light in animals."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3140.608,"endTime":3148.288,"body":"So they use those proteins alreadyin rats and other, other, um, test"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3148.288,"endTime":3153.158,"body":"animals to, to, influence, um, ion."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3153.558,"endTime":3154.078,"body":"ion."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3154.178,"endTime":3155.318,"body":", Yeah ion flows."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3155.318,"endTime":3158.798,"body":"So this is important in,in, for example, in brains."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3159.728,"endTime":3165.168,"body":"So this is, um, very importantto understand neural networks"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3165.168,"endTime":3168.078,"body":"and how information go, come,goes from there to there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3168.078,"endTime":3173.478,"body":"This is all about ions in the cell ornot how the information goes around it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3173.545,"endTime":3174.205,"body":"Kevin: interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3174.318,"endTime":3174.623,"body":"Anne: this is like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3175.743,"endTime":3177.483,"body":"Yeah, this is the, the aim."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3177.843,"endTime":3180.663,"body":"Uh, but I am doing thefundamental research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3180.663,"endTime":3185.373,"body":"So, xenorodopsin, like myfavorite purple protein."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3185.853,"endTime":3192.523,"body":"Um, this, this has this like withsolid state NMR and what can I do?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3192.553,"endTime":3193.693,"body":"So maybe I start with that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3194.983,"endTime":3198.403,"body":"So we work, um, on the dynamics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3198.463,"endTime":3202.873,"body":"Uh, again this is the big, bigadvantage of, um, NMR in general,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3202.873,"endTime":3204.163,"body":"that you can see dynamics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3204.163,"endTime":3209.803,"body":"And what we do is to see how,um, specific important Nino acids"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3209.953,"endTime":3212.803,"body":"behave during the photo cycle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3212.923,"endTime":3216.203,"body":"So how are they orientated?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3216.303,"endTime":3220.323,"body":"What, what happens when arethey getting proteinated?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3220.323,"endTime":3221.823,"body":"That's something what we can see"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3222.273,"endTime":3225.933,"body":"Kevin: So you basically look atthe reaction while it's happening?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3226.183,"endTime":3227.293,"body":"Anne: Yeah, more or less."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3227.48,"endTime":3227.63,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3227.63,"endTime":3227.96,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3228.313,"endTime":3229.903,"body":"Anne: Um, yeah, that's the thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3229.963,"endTime":3236.773,"body":"Um, again, we can see, can we exciteby cross polarization our, our, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3237.793,"endTime":3239.713,"body":"Our spin or, or like our atoms."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3239.713,"endTime":3244.633,"body":"So if there is a, for example,for a, my favorite amino acids"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3244.633,"endTime":3250.033,"body":"are histidine and histamines havethis ole ring with two nitrogens."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3250.603,"endTime":3256.553,"body":"And, they can do a lot of things with,um, they can be proteinated or not,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3256.553,"endTime":3261.263,"body":"they can be in a neutral and not inproteins, but in general they can be"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3261.263,"endTime":3265.044,"body":"also like completely, deprotonated and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3265.989,"endTime":3269.229,"body":"When they're getting protonated,we have a much better signal"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3269.259,"endTime":3271.209,"body":"at a specific chemical shift."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3271.689,"endTime":3277.059,"body":"And when they're getting deprotonated,um, we, we see them at a different"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3277.059,"endTime":3281.889,"body":"chemical shift, which is prettyuseless as I have a proton pump."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3282.369,"endTime":3286.779,"body":"So I can see, um, if maybethe proton comes along."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3286.779,"endTime":3288.459,"body":"This one specific histidine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3288.527,"endTime":3289.027,"body":"Kevin: Oh, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3289.764,"endTime":3290.994,"body":"Anne: During the photo cycle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3291.294,"endTime":3295.434,"body":"So is it getting proteinated when it'sget, when it gets proteinated, chemical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3295.434,"endTime":3300.954,"body":"shift chains and the CP transfer ismuch better because we can actually"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3301.284,"endTime":3305.244,"body":"go with this, um, Mann hand condition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3305.454,"endTime":3308.094,"body":"We actually have this crosspolarization step because we have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3308.094,"endTime":3310.434,"body":"a directly connected nitrogen to,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3310.974,"endTime":3311.724,"body":"um, proton."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3311.804,"endTime":3312.304,"body":"Kevin: Uh, cool."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3313.134,"endTime":3314.124,"body":"Anne: Yeah, that's pretty cool."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3314.154,"endTime":3316.774,"body":"And so that's what I'm doing right now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3316.774,"endTime":3322.264,"body":"I investigate, uh, on a functional basis,which amino acids are important, what are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3322.264,"endTime":3329.161,"body":"doing my, my histidine, and, the otherpart of the project is more structural."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3329.161,"endTime":3335.671,"body":"So I, I did a lot of mutations andI just, I just saw what happens"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3335.671,"endTime":3338.971,"body":"with my, the important amino acids"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3339.024,"endTime":3342.054,"body":"Kevin: you change out these amino acids in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3342.054,"endTime":3345.919,"body":"the proteins and then you see whichone of them are crucial for the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3346.549,"endTime":3349.989,"body":"mechanism, or which ones are just there?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3351.511,"endTime":3351.811,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3351.811,"endTime":3354.181,"body":"And we can also see howthey influence each other."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3354.181,"endTime":3359.251,"body":"So if you mutate something,you can see, um, how much does"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3359.251,"endTime":3360.841,"body":"the chemical shift change?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3361.021,"endTime":3364.621,"body":"How much does the shapeof the sickness change?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3365.101,"endTime":3368.401,"body":"And because this gives you a lotof information, what happens?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3368.401,"endTime":3368.671,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3369.136,"endTime":3373.036,"body":"Like when you change theenvironment of a spin?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3373.606,"endTime":3374.476,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3374.476,"endTime":3380.596,"body":"The chemical shift changes, but sometimesyou change something, uh, and at one"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3380.596,"endTime":3384.526,"body":"end of the protein, but this has aninfluence to the chemical shift of an"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3384.526,"endTime":3388.481,"body":"completely far away other amino acid."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3389.116,"endTime":3391.246,"body":"And now things are getting interested"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3391.486,"endTime":3392.056,"body":"and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3392.626,"endTime":3393.856,"body":"this is something we can see."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3394.194,"endTime":3397.524,"body":"Kevin: then they might be closeto each other in the structure,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3397.584,"endTime":3400.194,"body":"or is it just other influences?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3400.546,"endTime":3400.756,"body":"Anne: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3401.206,"endTime":3405.706,"body":"so we have our, usually we startwith our, um, x-ray structure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3406.366,"endTime":3410.176,"body":"And so when I mean far away,I actually mean far away."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3410.176,"endTime":3415.066,"body":"So they have nothing to do with eachother, but, um, you never know how"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3415.066,"endTime":3417.856,"body":"they are connected to each other."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3418.156,"endTime":3421.786,"body":"Is there a hydrogen bondnetwork or whatever?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3421.884,"endTime":3426.354,"body":"Kevin: also this how the proteinfolds, I think also plays a role or?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3427.471,"endTime":3428.281,"body":"Anne: Yeah, that's true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3428.551,"endTime":3432.331,"body":"So in general, if it does notfold, you definitely see, uh, see"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3432.331,"endTime":3436.861,"body":"it because you have no protein,um, to detect, uh, or yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3436.921,"endTime":3438.761,"body":"But, what one can also see"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3438.761,"endTime":3440.991,"body":"is if it, folds differently."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3441.381,"endTime":3447.621,"body":"Sometimes you have a, a pentameric,um, state, which is the common way to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3447.621,"endTime":3450.451,"body":"that this protein, uh, oligomerize."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3450.471,"endTime":3456.926,"body":"But sometimes you change one aminoacid and then you end up with a trimer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3457.736,"endTime":3458.026,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3458.426,"endTime":3459.346,"body":"Proteins are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3459.843,"endTime":3466.949,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, that's, I only did, uh,the chemistry and used, uh, NMR for like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3466.979,"endTime":3474.509,"body":"really small in comparison moleculeswith like 10 maybe carbons, and that's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3474.514,"endTime":3477.089,"body":"then a completely different word."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3477.089,"endTime":3481.889,"body":"So for me it's uh, really amazinghow you can derive anything from"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3481.889,"endTime":3483.824,"body":"these huge molecules with the NMR."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3484.134,"endTime":3485.304,"body":"It's really interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3485.551,"endTime":3486.091,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3486.721,"endTime":3490.891,"body":"So I think the, the bigger themolecule gets, the more precise"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3490.951,"endTime":3492.421,"body":"your questions have to be."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3492.871,"endTime":3497.671,"body":"So the, the thing is you can'tmeasure everything at once."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3498.331,"endTime":3498.751,"body":"And"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3498.781,"endTime":3504.451,"body":"then, yeah, that's why I just focus ofhocus in the beginning on histidines and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3504.451,"endTime":3506.521,"body":"how they behave during the photo cycle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3506.881,"endTime":3507.361,"body":"And now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3508.161,"endTime":3511.851,"body":"Things are getting more complicated,but I, like, I started with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3511.851,"endTime":3513.741,"body":"that, saw interesting effects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3513.741,"endTime":3516.561,"body":"And then I was wonderinglike, why are they happening?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3516.561,"endTime":3521.001,"body":"And then, and the next questioncame after and after and after,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3521.721,"endTime":3524.871,"body":"um, just a short, short note."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3525.261,"endTime":3530.871,"body":"Um, I said that I investigatethe photo cycle with NMR and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3530.961,"endTime":3535.386,"body":"um, like this sounds pretty easywhen I say it like that, but, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3536.256,"endTime":3538.176,"body":"Actually it's not super easy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3538.956,"endTime":3543.536,"body":"Um, but it's not because it'ssuper hard in general because this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3543.536,"endTime":3545.306,"body":"is the thing this proton does."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3545.306,"endTime":3550.016,"body":"So it has this photo cycle, butuh, again, we have a lot of like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3550.016,"endTime":3552.206,"body":"hardware things we have to consider."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3552.206,"endTime":3556.286,"body":"Um, and that's, that's the part likesolid set them are is a lot of hardware"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3556.293,"endTime":3559.105,"body":"Kevin: Get light into theirs, probably"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3559.301,"endTime":3563.261,"body":"Anne: Yeah, like at first youhave to ha um, have to try to, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3563.291,"endTime":3565.581,"body":"put light into your probe head."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3565.991,"endTime":3566.321,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3566.321,"endTime":3572.801,"body":"And, um, here we use somethingwhich is a mixture of EPR and NMR."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3572.851,"endTime":3577.381,"body":"So what I use for today, um, toinvestigate photo cyclists, it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3577.381,"endTime":3582.291,"body":"called DNP, uh, dynamic NuclearPolarization  spectroscopy, and this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3582.291,"endTime":3585.261,"body":"is just a mixture of EPR and NMR."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3585.711,"endTime":3589.891,"body":"Um, you use radicals to yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3590.281,"endTime":3591.361,"body":"In the end, you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3591.956,"endTime":3596.426,"body":"What, what you want to have is a signalenhancement and there you use the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3596.426,"endTime":3601.766,"body":"radical and due to a lot of Boardmanstuff things, you, um, you actually"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3601.766,"endTime":3604.376,"body":"changed, uh, this netto magnetization."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3604.676,"endTime":3608.966,"body":"So as I said in the beginning,you, you had just a few, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3609.481,"endTime":3612.631,"body":"Spins, you can see the excitation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3612.931,"endTime":3617.711,"body":"And with dynamic nuclear polarization,you change this population."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3618.161,"endTime":3622.391,"body":"So you have a lot more spins yousee in the end, in your spectrum."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3622.391,"endTime":3624.251,"body":"That's why you havethe signal enhancement."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3624.454,"endTime":3630.179,"body":"Kevin: radicals somehow change the ratiobetween these two levels, and then you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3630.179,"endTime":3635.914,"body":"can excite more of the spins and see more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3637.331,"endTime":3640.631,"body":"Anne: Um, those red, um, thoseradicals are electrons, so"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3640.631,"endTime":3643.091,"body":"you excite electrons and then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3643.091,"endTime":3649.901,"body":"you have, uh, like, like, uh, um, youhave an effect, this, this polarization"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3649.901,"endTime":3655.421,"body":"effect from the, from the electrons,excited electrons to your um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3655.721,"endTime":3657.371,"body":"to your proton spins."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3658.091,"endTime":3662.931,"body":"And here, that's why you changethe boltzmann distribution because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3662.931,"endTime":3664.431,"body":"you have this polarization."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3665.901,"endTime":3666.231,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3666.231,"endTime":3670.411,"body":"And this is for me it'ssuper nice because I have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3670.621,"endTime":3676.021,"body":"a signal enhancement and aswe measure at 100 Kelvin,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3676.711,"endTime":3680.431,"body":"we can, um, trap the photo intermediates."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3680.881,"endTime":3688.601,"body":"So we start at 100 Kelvin and illuminateour sample, and then we start to increase"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3688.601,"endTime":3694.581,"body":"the temperature a bit and lower thebarrier between the photo intermediate"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3694.581,"endTime":3697.101,"body":"states, uh, the energy barrier."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3697.101,"endTime":3702.291,"body":"And then, it hops from one photointermediate to the next one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3703.206,"endTime":3709.146,"body":"Then I measure again, and then Igo up again, go from the next, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3709.146,"endTime":3710.736,"body":"level to the, to the other one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3711.096,"endTime":3715.506,"body":"And so I can like trap all theintermediates along the photo cycle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3716.136,"endTime":3718.416,"body":"And in my case, I'mmost interested into the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3718.446,"endTime":3719.196,"body":"histidine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3720.006,"endTime":3720.517,"body":"So here I can."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3720.524,"endTime":3723.284,"body":"Kevin: sample every time, ordid you manage to get the light"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3723.284,"endTime":3725.534,"body":"source in the spectrometer?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3726.411,"endTime":3728.481,"body":"Anne: No, we have a lightsource in the spectrometer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3728.841,"endTime":3731.811,"body":"So we have a probe headwith a, basically  hole"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3731.989,"endTime":3732.279,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3732.981,"endTime":3735.951,"body":"Anne: and there you can putin, uh, a light channel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3737.041,"endTime":3740.401,"body":"But you just, you justilluminate in the beginning."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3740.911,"endTime":3745.501,"body":"So you illuminate to excite everythingfrom the ground state to the,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3745.771,"endTime":3747.391,"body":"in this case it's a case state."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3747.451,"endTime":3748.891,"body":"That's, that's the type your name."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3749.161,"endTime":3753.931,"body":"So the first photo, intermediate, and thenyou can stop, just stop the illumination,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3754.351,"endTime":3756.331,"body":"and then it's just thermodynamics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3756.991,"endTime":3760.696,"body":"And then it goes, and, and in the end,you end in the, in the ground state."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3761.671,"endTime":3766.491,"body":"And here I can really nicely seewhat happens with the histidines"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3766.591,"endTime":3768.481,"body":"during this photo cycle or other"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3768.571,"endTime":3769.981,"body":"interesting amino acids."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3769.981,"endTime":3774.151,"body":"So this is a really nice andvery important technique for,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3774.661,"endTime":3777.271,"body":"um, microbio redopsins in NMR."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3777.609,"endTime":3778.479,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3778.864,"endTime":3780.114,"body":"It's a very"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3781.089,"endTime":3786.459,"body":"specific field and also fundamentalresearch, so I think it's sometimes a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3786.459,"endTime":3789.579,"body":"bit difficult to derive what future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3791.304,"endTime":3792.984,"body":"Uh, stuff might come"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3792.984,"endTime":3798.624,"body":"from it, but also it's like with the,NMR, at first they just they figured"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3798.624,"endTime":3800.364,"body":"out what magnetic resonance is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3800.364,"endTime":3800.904,"body":"and then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3801.264,"endTime":3803.964,"body":"it took decades until NMR"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3803.964,"endTime":3806.814,"body":"was basically usable like we do today."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3807.534,"endTime":3808.374,"body":"and that's, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3808.481,"endTime":3808.771,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3808.881,"endTime":3809.171,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3809.171,"endTime":3809.172,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3809.274,"endTime":3811.164,"body":"Kevin: fundamentalresearch is so important."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3812.941,"endTime":3816.361,"body":"Anne: Yeah, and it's again, like the,it's a thing with fundamental research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3816.361,"endTime":3819.151,"body":"You do things and you, You don't"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3819.241,"endTime":3825.571,"body":"just get money, so you have to haveto explain the DFG or whoever that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3825.691,"endTime":3826.951,"body":"the science you do is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3826.951,"endTime":3827.671,"body":"important."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3827.671,"endTime":3830.251,"body":"And they see, okay, seems to be important."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3830.521,"endTime":3831.541,"body":"Then you do the science."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3831.541,"endTime":3831.901,"body":"But in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3831.901,"endTime":3836.251,"body":"the end, with fundamentalresearch, even if your idea was"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3836.251,"endTime":3838.382,"body":"nice, maybe nobody will use it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3838.654,"endTime":3838.884,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3840.346,"endTime":3841.726,"body":"Anne: So that's, that's the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3842.049,"endTime":3842.919,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, you never"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3842.919,"endTime":3847.929,"body":"know what would come out of it, butthat's also the pure science, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3848.019,"endTime":3852.339,"body":"That's, uh, what we have also discussedin one of the previous episodes where you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3852.339,"endTime":3858.129,"body":"really do it out of curiosity and you justwant to figure out how, how stuff works"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3858.129,"endTime":3863.529,"body":"without the goal of making money, whichis what the research in the industry does."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3864.746,"endTime":3865.586,"body":"Anne: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3865.616,"endTime":3869.216,"body":"and I, I mean those inwardlydirected pumps to understand how"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3869.216,"endTime":3874.316,"body":"they work and especially with theapplication of optogenetics, it's very"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3874.316,"endTime":3880.796,"body":"interesting because this is a hugefield and um, I'm pretty sure that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3881.291,"endTime":3884.441,"body":"For optogenetics, there will bea Nobel Prize in the next decade."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3884.591,"endTime":3885.161,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3885.281,"endTime":3890.501,"body":"It's, uh, it's so interesting thethings they do and um, I'm pretty sure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3891.161,"endTime":3894.101,"body":"And so we would seewhat, what happens and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3894.661,"endTime":3900.361,"body":"In general, it's nice to know howproteins work because you can transfer"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3900.361,"endTime":3906.121,"body":"things you saw somewhere to otherthings you need right now, and that's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3906.391,"endTime":3908.671,"body":"how, like, that's how science works."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3908.671,"endTime":3911.161,"body":"So you in the end, if you are."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3911.966,"endTime":3918.426,"body":"If you're a scientist and yeah, you, youjust check out what, what do we already"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3918.426,"endTime":3925.206,"body":"know and how can I, apply this on my, um,research field And in the end to know how"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3925.206,"endTime":3930.516,"body":"proteins work, um, is pretty good becausethere are a lot of proteins, especially."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3930.956,"endTime":3933.896,"body":"Also like humans all, every time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3934.166,"endTime":3937.526,"body":"Um, just think about humans,what is important for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3937.689,"endTime":3937.969,"body":"Kevin: yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3938.066,"endTime":3938.456,"body":"Anne: But we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3938.546,"endTime":3940.016,"body":"also have a lot of proteins"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3941.336,"endTime":3946.376,"body":"and yeah, I am, I am, I'm prettysure that nothing is for zero"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3946.376,"endTime":3946.856,"body":"reason,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3947.092,"endTime":3951.319,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, they will always comeout something because you just"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3951.319,"endTime":3956.209,"body":"contribute to the overall knowledgeand the toolbox that others can apply."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3956.209,"endTime":3964.429,"body":"And then it's very rarely that onescientist does everything, and especially"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3964.429,"endTime":3966.739,"body":"the more advanced we get, the more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3967.744,"endTime":3971.854,"body":"We need to do this fundamentalresearch that we basically can find"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3971.854,"endTime":3974.794,"body":"out new stuff for others to work on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3974.993,"endTime":3975.403,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3975.956,"endTime":3980.036,"body":"So all the fancy things now theyare based on fundamental research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3980.284,"endTime":3980.884,"body":"Kevin: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3981.836,"endTime":3986.122,"body":"And, um, when it comes,uh, to the NMR, do you see"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3986.122,"endTime":3991.982,"body":"there any, are new advancementsthat are maybe coming in the next"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3991.982,"endTime":3994.237,"body":"years or in the upcoming future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3996.675,"endTime":4000.815,"body":"Anne: Um, like for solidstate NMR as I mentioned, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4001.68,"endTime":4008.42,"body":"Frequently, um, we really have ahardware problem, so, not a problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4008.42,"endTime":4008.81,"body":"So"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4009.59,"endTime":4013.76,"body":"it's really nice right now,but I think in hardware cases"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4013.76,"endTime":4016.25,"body":"there is a lot to improve, so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4017.12,"endTime":4019.2,"body":"Am starting with those probe heads."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4019.22,"endTime":4024.32,"body":"So right now some of them arevery, um, sensitive to temperature"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4024.32,"endTime":4030.32,"body":"changes and they can't translatethe, the different radiations"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4030.38,"endTime":4032.6,"body":"homogeneously to the whole samples."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4032.6,"endTime":4032.87,"body":"So maybe."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4033.815,"endTime":4037.745,"body":"We will find a way to, to reallyexcite, to hold sample, not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4037.745,"endTime":4040.265,"body":"just parts or, I don't know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4040.595,"endTime":4044.675,"body":"There are so many things fromhardware sites, from pulse"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4044.675,"endTime":4049.295,"body":"sequence, uh, sites, which is moreinteresting for the, the science."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4049.835,"endTime":4055.415,"body":"Um, there's already a lot things that,that, that happened and that, um, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4056.39,"endTime":4059.54,"body":"That are already already, um, discovered."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4059.96,"endTime":4065.06,"body":"But there are also, again, things whichjust a bit connected between the hardware"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4065.06,"endTime":4067.61,"body":"and, uh, and, uh, pulse sequence."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4067.61,"endTime":4069.02,"body":"It's called optimal control."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4069.35,"endTime":4075.01,"body":"Yeah, basically you try to find thebest way to pulse in the B one field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4075.13,"endTime":4081.88,"body":"So the, um, the radio frequency, and thisis in a way, um, a mathematical approach,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4082.3,"endTime":4084.58,"body":"but this is also limited by hardware."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4084.61,"endTime":4085.69,"body":"So I think hardware,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4086.242,"endTime":4090.352,"body":"Kevin: When it comes to theanalysis of the Spectra, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4090.352,"endTime":4094.492,"body":"get, do you think thereare aI tools coming up?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4094.492,"endTime":4098.722,"body":"Because I think especially whenyou have these really difficult"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4098.722,"endTime":4102.802,"body":"to interpret results, it might be."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4104.812,"endTime":4111.857,"body":"Very useful to, to train AI on that andthen get better results just from that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4113.37,"endTime":4114.9,"body":"Anne: Yeah, we already have that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4114.96,"endTime":4119.71,"body":"So we already have a signalassignment ai software."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4119.71,"endTime":4119.77,"body":"They,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4120.94,"endTime":4121.84,"body":"they are okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4121.96,"endTime":4126.97,"body":"So for, um, especially for,um, soluble proteins or soluble"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4126.97,"endTime":4130.3,"body":"substances, uh, for membrane proteins."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4130.705,"endTime":4133.465,"body":"Membrane proteins or ingeneral, everything in solids,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4133.495,"endTime":4135.235,"body":"it's, it's not as easy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4135.715,"endTime":4138.775,"body":"They give you a first, uh, a first hint."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4138.955,"endTime":4141.895,"body":"Or a first tip, but youdefinitely have to recheck that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4142.195,"endTime":4146.215,"body":"And it's not every timesuper, super correct"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4146.995,"endTime":4153,"body":"and yeah, but they are very useful whenyou have want to have a, a overview."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4153.257,"endTime":4159.197,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, and I think they will bewith the, when you imagine how fast"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4159.197,"endTime":4166.187,"body":"all these AI tools are moving comparedto like only last year or two years"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4166.192,"endTime":4169.367,"body":"ago, to to what they can do now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4169.787,"endTime":4172.757,"body":"So that's, that's alreadycrazy how fast this moves."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4172.757,"endTime":4173.117,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4174.242,"endTime":4178.682,"body":"I hope that this also will get intoall these chemical research and then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4178.682,"endTime":4182.492,"body":"help to accelerate all this research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4183.145,"endTime":4185.875,"body":"Anne: Yeah, so at last conferenceI have been, there were"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4185.875,"endTime":4191.955,"body":"already some industry, um, parties thatintroduced their, their software and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4191.955,"endTime":4195.465,"body":"and my university thereis also, there were a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4195.465,"endTime":4201.51,"body":"professor that already worked on,um, signal assignment of NMR, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4201.57,"endTime":4204.81,"body":"protein signals, whichis bit, bit difficult."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4205.26,"endTime":4205.59,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4205.98,"endTime":4206.25,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4206.25,"endTime":4208.29,"body":"Proteins are living more or less living"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4208.29,"endTime":4211.41,"body":"things, so they have dynamicsand this changes the chemical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4211.41,"endTime":4213.42,"body":"shifts, but in the end, it's better"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4213.42,"endTime":4213.9,"body":"than nothing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4213.9,"endTime":4216.81,"body":"So, So there are things,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4217.115,"endTime":4217.74,"body":"AI is super"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4217.792,"endTime":4218.032,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4218.602,"endTime":4221.992,"body":"It was very interdisciplinarythat you have, in this case, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4221.992,"endTime":4228.442,"body":"would need probably physicistsfor the NMR or engineers and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4228.442,"endTime":4232.582,"body":"then the chemists and biology."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4232.612,"endTime":4233.272,"body":"Biology"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4233.272,"endTime":4234.142,"body":"is also in there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4234.142,"endTime":4236.362,"body":"And then you would also need, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4237.712,"endTime":4241.732,"body":"computational chemists and then some AI"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4241.732,"endTime":4245.512,"body":"researchers, and they all wouldhave to work together to really"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4245.512,"endTime":4248.032,"body":"make a huge impact, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4248.142,"endTime":4248.712,"body":"Anne: Yep."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4249.395,"endTime":4252.965,"body":"Kevin: the more advanced we get in this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4253.775,"endTime":4256.085,"body":"We have to collaboratewith different fields"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4256.185,"endTime":4259.825,"body":"Anne: Definitely already, like myresearch group, we are like, my"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4259.825,"endTime":4264.795,"body":"boss is a physicist soundsso weirdly in English."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4265.245,"endTime":4267.255,"body":"And uh, like I'm a chemist."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4267.255,"endTime":4272.775,"body":"My colleagues are biologists orbiochemists and we are doing an."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4273.675,"endTime":4279.255,"body":"Uh, analysis method where you cancome from a very physical point of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4279.255,"endTime":4284.595,"body":"view or just do bio things andyeah, that's why we are called"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4284.595,"endTime":4285.875,"body":"the biophysical Institute."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4285.875,"endTime":4287.855,"body":"So there's a lot of things we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4288.095,"endTime":4289.265,"body":"one can, one can."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4290.278,"endTime":4290.458,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4290.488,"endTime":4291.088,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4291.808,"endTime":4299.388,"body":"then, um, also what you do is, uh,talking about, all kinds of chemistry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4299.448,"endTime":4306.168,"body":"In your podcast, you also have,um, what keeps you motivated to do"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4306.168,"endTime":4307.878,"body":"also this, uh, podcast you have,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4311.83,"endTime":4318.19,"body":"Anne: I think I like to go deeperinto things I think are Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4318.19,"endTime":4318.49,"body":"so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4319.66,"endTime":4325.51,"body":"Like, at one time I was wondering like,okay, what caffeine really does to me?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4325.57,"endTime":4329.41,"body":"And then I, I just like thought,okay, maybe this is an inter is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4329.41,"endTime":4331,"body":"interesting episode for my podcast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4331.48,"endTime":4336.52,"body":"So I started a deep dive, likethe last episode, uh, which,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4336.55,"endTime":4338.38,"body":"uh, I published yesterday."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4338.77,"endTime":4341.08,"body":"Or when you hear, I don't knowwhen you hear that, but in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4341.08,"endTime":4344.53,"body":"the middle of, of July, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4344.98,"endTime":4350.74,"body":"It's about microbiome and the brainconnection, how everything uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4350.74,"endTime":4352.93,"body":"is connected to each other and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4353.665,"endTime":4353.875,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4353.875,"endTime":4358.825,"body":"And I just like to, to read thosethings to, to go deeper in those things"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4358.825,"endTime":4361.48,"body":"and then to write it down in a, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4363.085,"endTime":4366.625,"body":"Yeah, hopefully simple wayfor, for everyone that listens."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4366.655,"endTime":4369.925,"body":"And then as I like podcasts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4369.925,"endTime":4372.535,"body":"I think that's the startingpoint for every podcaster."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4372.535,"endTime":4373.525,"body":"We like podcast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4374.515,"endTime":4380.365,"body":"And I, yeah, I just, I, I just startedwith this, uh, for, four years ago and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4380.365,"endTime":4385.165,"body":"yeah, I, I still doing it and I reallylike it, and that's why I'm doing it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4385.165,"endTime":4385.675,"body":"It's just."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4386.175,"endTime":4391.535,"body":"Intrinsic the interests and then Isaw that people like it, and then,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4392.105,"endTime":4393.485,"body":"yeah, that's a good motivation I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4393.533,"endTime":4394.463,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4395.033,"endTime":4401.393,"body":"This, uh, talking about science, Ithink is in general important to also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4401.393,"endTime":4403.193,"body":"get other people more interested."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4403.583,"endTime":4410.303,"body":"And I think with your podcast, becauseit's on a very easy to understand"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4410.333,"endTime":4415.223,"body":"level, it can also be for someone whois not really a expert in chemistry and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4415.223,"endTime":4420.683,"body":"they can listen to it and yeah, maybestart studying chemistry because of it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4421.013,"endTime":4421.583,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4421.583,"endTime":4426.773,"body":"Or maybe, or maybe start to see the howthings are connected to each other, so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4427.293,"endTime":4431.643,"body":"When I do the podcast, I start to,to go deeper into to stuff, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4431.643,"endTime":4434.673,"body":"then sometimes I end in a completelydifferent direction because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4434.673,"endTime":4436.353,"body":"everything is connected to each other."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4436.743,"endTime":4443.733,"body":"And that's something I, I also showthem, so I, I make connections to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4443.763,"endTime":4447.753,"body":"recent, um, studies or what I am doing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4447.753,"endTime":4451.953,"body":"So everything is connected andthe world is connected, and that's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4452.703,"endTime":4457.313,"body":"helps maybe people to see, how theworld works and helps them to see."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4457.313,"endTime":4457.913,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4458.813,"endTime":4459.503,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4459.563,"endTime":4460.703,"body":"Um, now I, now I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4461.183,"endTime":4461.903,"body":"know more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4462.201,"endTime":4462.801,"body":"Kevin: exactly that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4462.801,"endTime":4467.151,"body":"That's why chemistry is also sofascinating for me that it's, it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4467.391,"endTime":4473.061,"body":"everywhere and you can explain somuch that when you just look at it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4474.516,"endTime":4477.336,"body":"A lot of stuff can be explainedby the chemistry behind it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4478.963,"endTime":4479.503,"body":"Anne: definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4479.593,"endTime":4481.303,"body":"Chemistry is really fascinating."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4481.303,"endTime":4481.603,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4482.293,"endTime":4482.503,"body":"that's true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4482.549,"endTime":4487.806,"body":"Kevin: So, um, last episode, Istarted this closing tradition"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4488.106,"endTime":4493.806,"body":"on this podcast is, uh, the question,is your favorite discovery in chemistry?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4495.778,"endTime":4496.198,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4496.618,"endTime":4500.908,"body":"I, oh, in chemistry, oh, I thought it, I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4500.908,"endTime":4501.388,"body":"thought in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4501.388,"endTime":4502.133,"body":"science in general."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4502.356,"endTime":4502.506,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4502.506,"endTime":4504.276,"body":"We can also do in science in general, I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4504.583,"endTime":4505.333,"body":"Anne: Okay, perfect."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4505.483,"endTime":4506.113,"body":"Well, because,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4507.343,"endTime":4510.103,"body":"because I really thoughtabout this, long, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4510.103,"endTime":4515.793,"body":"like it was not so easy for me, but whatreally fascinates me since I'm a child is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4515.793,"endTime":4522.051,"body":"that we can fly into the, into the spaceand, and general, what we already know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4522.051,"endTime":4522.321,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4522.381,"endTime":4529.101,"body":"So in, in space with the, there arealso spectrometers, not, um, not NMR"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4529.101,"endTime":4535.151,"body":"spectrometers, but with optical, opticaltechniques, and maybe this is also kind of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4535.151,"endTime":4541.511,"body":"chemistry, but does the, um, science whichis doing in, which is currently happening"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4541.511,"endTime":4543.881,"body":"in, in space is also really interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4544.331,"endTime":4546.701,"body":"And des Yeah, this justreally fascinates me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4546.701,"endTime":4548.681,"body":"Space stuff, space"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4548.868,"endTime":4549.438,"body":"Kevin: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4549.581,"endTime":4550.391,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4550.391,"endTime":4551.981,"body":"Space is super fascinating."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4552.494,"endTime":4557.265,"body":"I really like this, James Webbtelescope and what they can all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4557.265,"endTime":4561.885,"body":"now show in comparison to Hubbleand it's truly fascinating."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4561.956,"endTime":4562.406,"body":"Anne: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4562.541,"endTime":4566.336,"body":"I'm, I'm so nerd during Corona,so like the, the first month"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4566.416,"endTime":4571.761,"body":"I did a Coursera course, uh,astronomy, exploring space and time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4571.851,"endTime":4574.911,"body":"So this was my, what I did during covid."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4575.654,"endTime":4578.024,"body":"Kevin: That's a very productiveway of spending that time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4579.216,"endTime":4584.916,"body":"Anne: It was so interesting and they,they, uh, explained how, uh, I can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4584.916,"endTime":4588.276,"body":"really recommend that causeit's for free on Coursera."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4588.696,"endTime":4591.586,"body":"And they explained alsothose Hicks particles and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4591.834,"endTime":4592.164,"body":"Kevin: Hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4593.244,"endTime":4595.134,"body":"The god particle, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4596.566,"endTime":4596.896,"body":"Anne: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4596.896,"endTime":4598.216,"body":"It's really interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4598.216,"endTime":4598.786,"body":"So"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4598.824,"endTime":4599.244,"body":"Kevin: yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4599.536,"endTime":4601.366,"body":"Anne: yeah, I can recommend that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4601.854,"endTime":4602.604,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4602.604,"endTime":4606.894,"body":"Space is a super interesting topic in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4606.894,"endTime":4607.434,"body":"science."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4607.524,"endTime":4611.184,"body":"There's also so much morethat we can discover."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4611.34,"endTime":4611.7,"body":"Anne: yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4611.963,"endTime":4615.953,"body":"Kevin: with this, uh, I think we'recoming to an end of this episode."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4615.953,"endTime":4616.853,"body":"Thank you very much,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4616.853,"endTime":4618.743,"body":"Anne, for this discussion."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4618.743,"endTime":4621.423,"body":"I learned a lot about solid state NMR,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4621.486,"endTime":4623.451,"body":"Anne: Thank you verymuch for your invitation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4623.884,"endTime":4625.744,"body":"Kevin: Thank you very much for listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4626.314,"endTime":4629.584,"body":"Please consider followingon whatever app you like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4630.004,"endTime":4634.444,"body":"This really helps to reach more peopleand you won't miss any episodes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4634.991,"endTime":4639.791,"body":"Also check out Anne's podcastif you speak German, it's called"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4639.871,"endTime":4641.421,"body":"\"Darf's ein bisschen Chemie sein?\""},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4642.101,"endTime":4646.601,"body":". I, put the link to that in the shownote and also the books Anna mentioned,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4646.991,"endTime":4649.961,"body":"if you want to dig deeper into NMR."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":4650.58,"endTime":4653.7,"body":"Until next time, keepinnovating and stay curious."}]}