{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":null,"startTime":1.18,"endTime":3.33,"body":"Kevin: Welcome to Innovate and React."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3.57,"endTime":8.64,"body":"In this episode, we will discusshow metal organic compounds can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":8.64,"endTime":13.8,"body":"be used to improve the productionof electronic uh, components."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":14.28,"endTime":19.95,"body":"I'm very happy to welcome Dr.Leonardo, Santoni to the show."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":20.435,"endTime":20.953,"body":"Leonardo: Hello."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":21.053,"endTime":27.222,"body":"Kevin: You studied this topic atUCL in London and are also a science"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":27.222,"endTime":29.562,"body":"content creator, so welcome Leonardo."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":30.972,"endTime":32.022,"body":"Leonardo: Hello everyone."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":32.23,"endTime":35.95,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, so maybe we start witha short background of yourself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":36.16,"endTime":39.82,"body":"Um, what did you study and, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":40.885,"endTime":48.115,"body":"Leonardo: So I am, um, postdoc basedat UCL and I did my PhD here in,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":48.115,"endTime":50.275,"body":"uh, Caroline Knapp research group."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":50.845,"endTime":56.695,"body":"And it was focused on, uh, metalorganic deposition and precursor"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":56.695,"endTime":62.675,"body":"design of complexes for metaldeposition on, substrates."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":63.905,"endTime":69.305,"body":"And, uh, I did three year PhD,finished it, changed the group, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":69.305,"endTime":74.465,"body":"now I'm doing a postdoc, uh, morefocused on, um, polymer synthesis and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":74.465,"endTime":82.175,"body":"modification for, um, membrane appliedin fuel cells or um, filtration."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":83.735,"endTime":88.415,"body":"In my case, like my specific researchis more on the filtration side."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":88.46,"endTime":89.18,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, it's still very"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":89.18,"endTime":89.269,"body":"interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":90.339,"endTime":90.615,"body":"Leonardo: yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":91.34,"endTime":95.02,"body":"Kevin: We used ultrafiltration kind of membranes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":95.74,"endTime":100.19,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah, kind of like whatI'm focused on is more the chemical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":100.296,"endTime":102.126,"body":"filtration rather than physical."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":102.456,"endTime":108.066,"body":"So once we modify a membrane, uh,with specific molecules, microcycles,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":108.396,"endTime":113.786,"body":"we can maybe tune the membraneand, target specific molecule."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":113.876,"endTime":114.116,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":115.316,"endTime":119.006,"body":"When you have two molecule with thesame size, but different chemistry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":119.516,"endTime":125.246,"body":"with our membrane, hopefully we canselect filtrate, select directly"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":125.246,"endTime":126.596,"body":"one molecule and infiltrate it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":126.976,"endTime":130.961,"body":"Kevin: My, my colleagues at uni usedalso membranes to filter out the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":130.961,"endTime":136.331,"body":"catalyst from the reaction mixture But,uh, yeah, that's a different topic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":136.331,"endTime":140.891,"body":"Today we want to, uh, talkabout the, uh, metal deposition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":141.251,"endTime":145.741,"body":"So what is this metaldeposition in the first place?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":146.55,"endTime":153.38,"body":"Leonardo: So metal deposition is, uh,used to deposit, metals on substrate and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":153.38,"endTime":155.72,"body":"form thin films of conductive metals."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":156.2,"endTime":157.31,"body":"Why do we do this?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":157.34,"endTime":162.41,"body":"Because we want to, let's sayuse this conductivity, these, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":162.5,"endTime":169.045,"body":"thin layers conductive, um, inprinted electronics or solar cell."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":169.415,"endTime":176.855,"body":"These, let's say not, not verynew field, but still the state of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":176.855,"endTime":179.075,"body":"the art of the metal deposition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":179.525,"endTime":182.05,"body":"Uh, use silver that is quite expensive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":182.23,"endTime":183.97,"body":"Copper is quite, is quite common."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":185.01,"endTime":190.17,"body":"So in our group, we focused onaluminum deposition because it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":190.17,"endTime":192.6,"body":"a recyclable material potentially."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":192.9,"endTime":198.03,"body":"Uh, the aim is to make the deposition,let's say, more sustainable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":198.03,"endTime":200.19,"body":"So we focus on the inkjet printing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":200.79,"endTime":205.14,"body":"Kevin: So basically print thecables on these, uh, electronics"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":205.32,"endTime":206.94,"body":"in a very simplistic way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":207.945,"endTime":208.515,"body":"Leonardo: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":208.575,"endTime":214.965,"body":"So the standard, the, the statusquo I would say is more, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":215.025,"endTime":218.705,"body":"depositing metals with either CVD."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":219.21,"endTime":220.05,"body":"Kevin: What does CVD?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":220.08,"endTime":224.765,"body":"Leonardo: familiar with it, chemi,chemical vapor deposition and or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":224.975,"endTime":230.465,"body":"other techniques that requires hightemperature around 1000 degrees"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":230.555,"endTime":232.655,"body":"sometimes, uh, high pressures."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":232.955,"endTime":238.005,"body":"It's, an expensive setup if youthink, industrially so, yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":238.353,"endTime":240.993,"body":"Plus the metal notalways can be recovered."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":241.173,"endTime":242.523,"body":"Sometimes it's expensive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":242.523,"endTime":245.193,"body":"So it's a bit a tricky situation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":245.703,"endTime":249.753,"body":"So the aim of this group is touse aluminum that is cheaper"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":250.323,"endTime":252.483,"body":"and potentially we can reuse it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":253.143,"endTime":257.553,"body":"And uh, our aim is to depositthis metal at a temperature around"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":257.703,"endTime":261.663,"body":"200 degrees, 150 degrees is very"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":261.663,"endTime":262.263,"body":"challenging."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":262.736,"endTime":263.966,"body":"Kevin: still, it's a lot of saving."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":263.966,"endTime":265.676,"body":"If you compare it to the 1000,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":266.328,"endTime":271.068,"body":"Leonardo: But also very challengingbecause aluminum is famous to form"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":271.128,"endTime":277.878,"body":"oxides in a very easy way, and they'renot conductive, so that can be annoying."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":278.208,"endTime":287.058,"body":"So the aim is to try to find aprecursor that allow us to deposit"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":287.268,"endTime":289.218,"body":"aluminum at a low temperature."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":289.308,"endTime":290.388,"body":"Why this low?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":291.078,"endTime":292.248,"body":"Because if you think about."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":292.818,"endTime":301.428,"body":"Plastic and paper be like above 150degrees, often polymers decompose."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":302.148,"endTime":307.938,"body":"So if we keep it lower, then we areable to print these conductive layers"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":307.938,"endTime":310.188,"body":"on a polymer without decomposing it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":310.428,"endTime":312.618,"body":"And that's ideal and ideal situation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":312.778,"endTime":313.098,"body":"Kevin: Great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":314.298,"endTime":315.948,"body":"Leonardo: So the group."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":316.323,"endTime":318.633,"body":"Does research on different metals."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":318.633,"endTime":320.733,"body":"Also silver, also copper."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":321.033,"endTime":323.373,"body":"Caroline Knapp publishedmany paper on that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":323.403,"endTime":327.603,"body":"They have also like tattoolike, circuits, let's say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":327.693,"endTime":332.143,"body":"So you can literally have something,like, um, compatible with the skin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":332.143,"endTime":336.478,"body":"I would say again, is all preliminarystudies, so I don't wanna."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":337.918,"endTime":342.018,"body":"Say that we have invented theconductive tattoo, but this is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":342.018,"endTime":344.808,"body":"the potential of, um, the printed"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":344.808,"endTime":345.798,"body":"electronics, let's say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":346.698,"endTime":347.718,"body":"What is a precursor"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":348.885,"endTime":350.658,"body":"for, the people that don't know?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":351.168,"endTime":353.298,"body":"'cause I, I mentioned it quite a lot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":353.298,"endTime":360.138,"body":"So a precursor is a molecule formedby the metal, in our case, aluminum."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":361.143,"endTime":364.263,"body":"Surrounded by ligandsof d of different types."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":364.353,"endTime":366.513,"body":"We don't have an aluminum carbon bond."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":366.513,"endTime":371.883,"body":"In this case we have aluminumorganic molecule, uh, around, so"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":371.943,"endTime":373.953,"body":"aluminum, nitrogen, aluminum, oxygen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":374.643,"endTime":381.333,"body":"Um, the trick is to find the rightcomplex with the right geometry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":381.333,"endTime":386.253,"body":"and the least number of ligandsin order to then deposit it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":386.283,"endTime":387.843,"body":"So the aim is I assemble a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":387.843,"endTime":391.263,"body":"complex with, specific ligands."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":391.803,"endTime":397.623,"body":"I form it, so I choose the ligand, sohopefully I know the chemistry of that and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":397.623,"endTime":400.053,"body":"I can predict how it's gonna decompose."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":400.308,"endTime":400.728,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":400.728,"endTime":401.208,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":401.463,"endTime":403.653,"body":"Leonardo: So then I takethis ligand in solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":404.313,"endTime":406.233,"body":"I deposit it on a substrate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":406.533,"endTime":410.943,"body":"We also do spray the position,so you spray it on a substrate,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":410.973,"endTime":412.923,"body":"you heat the substrate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":413.598,"endTime":417.258,"body":"Your ligands will break thebonds with the metal and will"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":417.258,"endTime":422.445,"body":"evaporate and your metal willbe reduced and deposited on the,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":422.828,"endTime":427.761,"body":"Kevin: And then it ideally is,uh, just a metal itself without"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":427.761,"endTime":429.411,"body":"any impurities in between."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":429.591,"endTime":430.161,"body":"Leonardo: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":430.611,"endTime":431.031,"body":"Ideally."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":431.031,"endTime":435.231,"body":"So what you have to consideris the atoms in your ligands."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":435.321,"endTime":439.881,"body":"So you don't want chlorides 'causethey might, uh, contaminate your final"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":440.122,"endTime":444.039,"body":"Kevin: In what way do theythen form metal chlorides or,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":444.819,"endTime":445.149,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":445.149,"endTime":447.939,"body":"Like they, they stay in thelayer, so they're not good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":448.119,"endTime":448.479,"body":"Good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":448.689,"endTime":453.289,"body":"Like in terms of they can alter theconductivity, and they're, it's difficult"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":453.289,"endTime":456.289,"body":"to get rid of these, uh, kind of atoms."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":456.669,"endTime":458.057,"body":"And, that's it really."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":458.202,"endTime":460.332,"body":"Like you want to use small ligans."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":460.737,"endTime":465.627,"body":"As small as possible, because if youhave too many ligands or too bulky"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":465.627,"endTime":470.937,"body":"ligands around your metal, then yourdecomposition temperature increase."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":471.087,"endTime":477.657,"body":"So it's all about finding acompromise between the, let's say,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":477.747,"endTime":486.582,"body":"um, smallest, uh, complex, butalso more stable, less reactive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":487.527,"endTime":489.987,"body":"Because the problem with aluminum is that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":490.902,"endTime":496.182,"body":"Currently, if you want to deposit aluminumlayers, you can use complexes that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":496.182,"endTime":498.462,"body":"are very good for aluminum deposition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":498.462,"endTime":498.912,"body":"They're called"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":499.042,"endTime":499.692,"body":"alenes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":501.462,"endTime":503.832,"body":"The little problem is thatthey're extremely reactive and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":504.122,"endTime":504.867,"body":"Kevin: Oh, so they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":505.092,"endTime":508.572,"body":"Leonardo: So you need a glove box,you need to store them in, uh, cold"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":508.572,"endTime":514.272,"body":"temperatures, and it's not something youcan really scale up in a, in a company."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":514.752,"endTime":517.152,"body":"So that's why the compromise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":517.212,"endTime":518.172,"body":"So we want to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":518.667,"endTime":520.287,"body":"Have something more stable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":520.602,"endTime":523.572,"body":"Kevin: But still sableenough that it decomposes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":523.662,"endTime":524.052,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":524.862,"endTime":528.552,"body":"So do you have, when you use theseuh, precursors, you have them in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":528.552,"endTime":536.082,"body":"solvent and then spray the solventon, do you have to first evaporate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":536.862,"endTime":541.812,"body":"The solvent and then the ligands,or basically you have on the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":541.812,"endTime":546.402,"body":"surface that then gets decomposed,or is it already decomposing in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":546.402,"endTime":548.712,"body":"solution and you have nanoparticles?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":548.712,"endTime":548.847,"body":"Leonardo: no."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":548.877,"endTime":551.817,"body":"The complexes should bestable in solution as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":552.177,"endTime":559.257,"body":"So you deposit it on the layer first,and given that the, the layer is heated"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":559.257,"endTime":565.347,"body":"while you're spraying, then um, basicallythe solvent evaporates and with it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":566.247,"endTime":570.177,"body":"The parts of the complex, 'causethe heat is going to break the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":570.177,"endTime":572.097,"body":"bonds between metal and ligands."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":572.097,"endTime":572.397,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":572.397,"endTime":574.707,"body":"So then they, they just evaporate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":575.367,"endTime":577.047,"body":"And also we do inject printing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":577.047,"endTime":577.797,"body":"So literally"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":578.187,"endTime":578.307,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":578.367,"endTime":581.397,"body":"Leonardo: printer printing with an inject."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":581.457,"endTime":585.537,"body":"Kevin: already on the hot surface,so it's not, you apply your, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":585.537,"endTime":587.457,"body":"solution and then you heat it up."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":587.457,"endTime":590.727,"body":"You do it in already aheated, on the heated surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":590.817,"endTime":592.617,"body":"Leonardo: Already a heated surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":593.427,"endTime":593.757,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":593.757,"endTime":593.758,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":594.492,"endTime":595.452,"body":"It's already a temperature."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":595.632,"endTime":601.392,"body":"Then we leave sometimes to sinterand then we, we repeat the procedure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":601.542,"endTime":602.382,"body":"Adding layers and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":602.547,"endTime":602.817,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":603.327,"endTime":607.527,"body":"Basically then like a 3D printerwhere you also add layers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":607.812,"endTime":609.462,"body":"Leonardo: of, yeah, with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":609.462,"endTime":610.302,"body":"a human doing it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":611.232,"endTime":611.472,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":612.117,"endTime":612.777,"body":"Kevin: Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":613.217,"endTime":619.077,"body":"I think that's also a very, neatway to use these, um, metal organic"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":619.107,"endTime":624.597,"body":"compounds because you can very welldefine the complex and know how it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":624.597,"endTime":628.137,"body":"looks like in, in like also the room."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":628.512,"endTime":630.397,"body":"Of like what, what room it takes,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":632.112,"endTime":632.502,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":632.682,"endTime":632.982,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":633.072,"endTime":641.022,"body":"So the aim is we try to select, let's saythe most, the more versatile ligands for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":641.022,"endTime":643.482,"body":"the complex so we can tune the ligand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":644.307,"endTime":645.507,"body":"And study the properties."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":645.507,"endTime":650.867,"body":"So in my case, in my PhD thesis, whatI did, we use beta keto iminates."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":651.447,"endTime":656.787,"body":"They have, uh, quite a basic backbone, butthen, and you have nitrogen and oxygen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":657.147,"endTime":661.107,"body":"And on the nitrogen we are ableto add a substitute that can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":661.107,"endTime":663.957,"body":"vary from the methyl to the deep,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":664.037,"endTime":664.457,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":665.167,"endTime":666.727,"body":"Leonardo: diiosopropylphenol."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":667.287,"endTime":670.167,"body":"And um, this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":670.827,"endTime":675.867,"body":"Can like these allowed me totry to understand the properties"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":675.927,"endTime":679.497,"body":"of the final complex dependingon the bulkiness of the ligand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":679.527,"endTime":684.567,"body":"So with a methyl subsequent, maybeyou will have more ligands around the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":684.567,"endTime":690.687,"body":"metal because you have more space andmaybe the temperature it's, uh, lower"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":691.197,"endTime":693.927,"body":"than something like a phenol ring."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":694.842,"endTime":700.992,"body":"Right, uh, that it's bulkier or Iused tert-butyl on the nitrogen,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":701.202,"endTime":702.762,"body":"that's quite bulky as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":703.092,"endTime":708.662,"body":"So then what I found in my PhD thesis,given that this precursor were not,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":708.722,"endTime":712.352,"body":"let's say, ideal for the deposition, but."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":713.147,"endTime":713.417,"body":"Kevin: Why"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":713.702,"endTime":717.992,"body":"Leonardo: Because the, so I, becauseI obtained different classes of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":717.992,"endTime":722.162,"body":"complexes and some complex were notreally suitable for the position"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":722.162,"endTime":723.572,"body":"'cause I had lithium in it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":724.232,"endTime":728.912,"body":"Some other complexes endedup being lithium, uh, cages."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":729.362,"endTime":731.612,"body":"Actually this paper is gonnabe published very soon."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":732.122,"endTime":735.932,"body":"And, uh, there was, there was noaluminum in it, but the structure"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":735.932,"endTime":739.052,"body":"was very interesting and some other."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":739.297,"endTime":740.917,"body":"They contain a lot of aluminum."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":740.947,"endTime":746.047,"body":"But then when we went to study thedecomposition profiles with TGA"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":746.557,"endTime":750.147,"body":"and try to deposit it on the layer,then it was a bit more complex."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":750.147,"endTime":753.747,"body":"So the method should be like,optimize, maybe revise the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":753.747,"endTime":754.947,"body":"ligand, then things like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":755.457,"endTime":756.147,"body":"So like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":756.667,"endTime":760.327,"body":"While doing my thesis, I realizedthat I was more interested in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":760.327,"endTime":763.117,"body":"precursor design rather than the actual"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":763.117,"endTime":763.552,"body":"deposition,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":763.667,"endTime":763.958,"body":"Kevin: Well, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":764.617,"endTime":767.827,"body":"Leonardo: because playing with theligands, I realized that I found"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":767.827,"endTime":773.827,"body":"different classes of compact compounds,and so I was like, okay, can we predict"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":774.187,"endTime":776.167,"body":"properties from the size of the ligands?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":776.227,"endTime":777.667,"body":"Spoiler, not really,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":778.642,"endTime":779.272,"body":"Kevin: That's a shame."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":779.452,"endTime":779.572,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":780.997,"endTime":781.088,"body":"Leonardo: but yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":781.642,"endTime":785.992,"body":"Kevin: that would be cool if you canjust, uh, apply this very easy concept"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":785.992,"endTime":787.702,"body":"and then see, okay, this will work,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":788.542,"endTime":788.842,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":789.322,"endTime":789.562,"body":"Kevin: but"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":789.772,"endTime":792.442,"body":"Leonardo: I mean, I'm making itvery easy now, but like Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":792.532,"endTime":794.392,"body":"For the, for the audience."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":794.662,"endTime":798.592,"body":"Kevin: But, uh, the lithiumcomes from the ligand, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":799.492,"endTime":801.832,"body":"So how would you usually get rid of it?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":802.456,"endTime":823.78,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":823.781,"endTime":823.782,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":823.783,"endTime":823.784,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":825.095,"endTime":827.555,"body":"Leonardo: Bonded witha three methyl amine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":828.56,"endTime":831.23,"body":"So that's my first aluminumsource and that's quite good."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":831.71,"endTime":837.47,"body":"Technically you could use directlyTMAA to deposit aluminum, but as I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":837.47,"endTime":841.58,"body":"said before, it's extremely reactive,so we want to move away from that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":841.58,"endTime":843.44,"body":"and do something more user friendly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":844.16,"endTime":845.51,"body":"So that was one source."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":845.63,"endTime":847.46,"body":"Then while playing with my."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":848.39,"endTime":849.62,"body":"Uh, molecules."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":849.8,"endTime":854.75,"body":"I realized that there was someonethat made this precursor from lithium"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":854.75,"endTime":857.961,"body":"aluminum hydrate instead of TMAA."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":858.65,"endTime":863.9,"body":"So I was like, given that lithium aluminumhydrate, yes, it's reactive, but milder."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":864.68,"endTime":866.06,"body":"Why, why?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":866.06,"endTime":866.66,"body":"I'm not trying it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":867.745,"endTime":874.37,"body":"So I went down that road and uh, I foundout all these classes of complexes,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":874.37,"endTime":876.29,"body":"and that's where the lithium come from."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":877.01,"endTime":877.685,"body":"Kevin: Oh, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":877.76,"endTime":882.26,"body":"Leonardo: So sometimes with specificratio, the lithium goes in your complex."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":883.52,"endTime":888.89,"body":"Some of the times you can maybedrive the reaction towards"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":888.89,"endTime":891.11,"body":"formation of lithium chloride."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":891.71,"endTime":893.63,"body":"So your complex is safe"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":894.27,"endTime":895.08,"body":"Kevin: Then, okay,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":896.02,"endTime":896.24,"body":"so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":897.14,"endTime":901.33,"body":"That was because he used, uh,different, aluminum starting"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":901.33,"endTime":902.98,"body":"material, aluminum source, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":903.31,"endTime":911.19,"body":"So the, um, and then you investigatedthese different kinds and, tried"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":911.19,"endTime":914.58,"body":"to attach different ligands to it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":915.105,"endTime":916.185,"body":"Leonardo: Yes, yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":916.245,"endTime":922.62,"body":"So I tried, tert-butyl beta ketoiminate, I tried deep beta keto"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":922.62,"endTime":925.44,"body":"iminate, I tried, uh, smaller ligands."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":925.62,"endTime":930.54,"body":"There was the, some previous workdone by a previous PhD student."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":931.02,"endTime":934.23,"body":"We tried, uh, mesityl beta keto i minate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":934.63,"endTime":939.97,"body":"We tried different bulkiness and,uh, and yeah, we, we found out"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":940,"endTime":945.61,"body":"these various classes, and this workactually is gonna be published soon."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":945.7,"endTime":951.07,"body":"I found these chelated aluminates that areinteresting because you, it looks like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":952.455,"endTime":955.425,"body":"You have aluminum, onecomplex, but it's not."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":955.785,"endTime":959.685,"body":"I had this discussion with manyscientists and you realize that the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":959.685,"endTime":961.545,"body":"ligand behave in a different way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":961.635,"endTime":963.615,"body":"So instead of being mono is dano."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":964.545,"endTime":970.835,"body":"So the aluminum is aluminum three anduh, and you have these lithium inside it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":970.935,"endTime":972.555,"body":"Kevin: Uh, inside the complex,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":973.475,"endTime":973.775,"body":"Leonardo: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":973.775,"endTime":976.715,"body":"Inside the that was interesting'cause then I was like, oh nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":976.745,"endTime":981.425,"body":"What if I swap the lithium and Iput another aluminum or another"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":981.425,"endTime":981.995,"body":"metal?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":982.565,"endTime":984.935,"body":"But yeah, I didn't have enough time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":984.935,"endTime":986.495,"body":"So for now it didn't work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":986.555,"endTime":991.445,"body":"But maybe, who knows, the nextPhD student, maybe we'll try this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":991.865,"endTime":993.965,"body":"Then I found a lithium cages."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":994.115,"endTime":999.725,"body":"Then, uh, with a colleague of mine, wejust got a paper accepted in, uh, nature"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1000.1,"endTime":1000.82,"body":"Kevin: Oh, great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1002.26,"endTime":1006.535,"body":"Leonardo: So we managed to makethe first non pyrophoric precursor"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1006.835,"endTime":1009.325,"body":"for low temperature deposition."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1010.255,"endTime":1011.215,"body":"It has been accepted."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1011.215,"endTime":1014.515,"body":"It is gonna be releasedsoon, so stay tuned for that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1014.515,"endTime":1016.945,"body":"There is a Preprint online that you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1016.995,"endTime":1019.405,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, and then I canput that also the show notes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1020.77,"endTime":1021.1,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1021.52,"endTime":1024.01,"body":"And uh, we found, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1024.745,"endTime":1025.165,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1025.165,"endTime":1028.27,"body":"Leonardo: other ligands, thereis a way, let's say, but it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1028.27,"endTime":1030.01,"body":"still preliminary results."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1030.49,"endTime":1033.01,"body":"So a lot of unsuccessful reactions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1033.04,"endTime":1036.28,"body":"Kevin: I guess that'swhat the PhD always has."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1036.7,"endTime":1041.86,"body":"If everything would, would, work directly,then it would be too easy, I guess."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1041.92,"endTime":1042.28,"body":"But"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1042.61,"endTime":1045.04,"body":"Leonardo: yeah, I mean, Iwish it was too easy, but."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1045.22,"endTime":1046.69,"body":"Kevin: yeah, but theneveryone could do it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1047.8,"endTime":1049.36,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah, also true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1049.36,"endTime":1049.99,"body":"Also true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1050.74,"endTime":1056.44,"body":"Kevin: okay, so once youhave this, um, ideal complex."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1056.5,"endTime":1061.76,"body":"Then did you also investigate on howthey, decompose or did you just, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1061.79,"endTime":1063.95,"body":"characterize the, the complex and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1065.405,"endTime":1068.355,"body":"Leonardo: So first youcharacterize the complex, so a NMR."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1068.375,"endTime":1070.175,"body":"I was focused on the single crystal"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1070.175,"endTime":1070.74,"body":"XRD."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1071.63,"endTime":1075.92,"body":"Uh, my second supervisor, JeremyCockcroft, is the expert on it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1075.92,"endTime":1078.62,"body":"let's say quite popular in the field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1078.8,"endTime":1081.92,"body":"And, uh, so the aim is yes, great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1081.92,"endTime":1082.58,"body":"You made it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1082.76,"endTime":1083.78,"body":"Now grow a single"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1083.78,"endTime":1086.96,"body":"crystal for the peoplethat do this chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1087.56,"endTime":1088.31,"body":"They understand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1088.34,"endTime":1089.271,"body":"They will understand me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1090.235,"endTime":1091.135,"body":"It's painful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1092.455,"endTime":1095.605,"body":"You try your best differenttechniques and then you pray."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1098.005,"endTime":1099.625,"body":"Whatever you believe in it, you pray."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1100.795,"endTime":1102.715,"body":"And uh, I managed to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1104.105,"endTime":1106.865,"body":"To have the single crystalof five, uh, complexes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1106.865,"endTime":1108.545,"body":"That's how we define these classes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1109.235,"endTime":1114.315,"body":"And then you study the, decompositionprofile with thermo grammatic analysis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1114.765,"endTime":1120.855,"body":"So TGA, we realized that, um,the decomposition temperature"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1120.855,"endTime":1122.145,"body":"was still quite high."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1122.7,"endTime":1125.82,"body":"For some of them around 300 degrees."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1126.39,"endTime":1130.23,"body":"And so we were not really happy,like it was pointless to implement a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1130.23,"endTime":1133.86,"body":"deposition already when your depositiontemperature is is is quite high."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1134.25,"endTime":1138.09,"body":"So yes, we did some testing andsomething, but there's still work to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1138.09,"endTime":1141.64,"body":"do on the like material application of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1141.835,"endTime":1145.645,"body":"Kevin: But did you see a trendin your different, uh, complexes"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1145.645,"endTime":1149.835,"body":"that, what had an influence onthe decomposition temperature?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1150.92,"endTime":1152.205,"body":"Leonardo: Um, not really."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1152.205,"endTime":1157.095,"body":"I mean, you know, the, um, lessbulky materials decompose at,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1157.185,"endTime":1159.915,"body":"uh, lower temperature sometimes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1159.915,"endTime":1162.475,"body":"We had the deep acnac."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1162.495,"endTime":1166.965,"body":"These acnac is the short name forbeta to iminate, and I formed this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1166.965,"endTime":1172.035,"body":"complex with two ligands, the aluminumand one aluminum hydrogen bond."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1172.845,"endTime":1173.385,"body":"And that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1174.16,"endTime":1179.84,"body":"Even if the ligand is quite bulky, thatdecomposed at a quite low temperature."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1180.02,"endTime":1180.74,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1181.25,"endTime":1183.32,"body":"But the, the compound already existed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1183.62,"endTime":1185.66,"body":"It was never used as a precursor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1186.44,"endTime":1190.37,"body":"But, but again, on this,we, we have to study more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1190.43,"endTime":1194.105,"body":"For now we have justpreliminary TGA analysis to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1195.055,"endTime":1200.935,"body":"Have an idea, let's say size matterin this sense, like, less number"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1200.935,"endTime":1206.095,"body":"of ligands and smaller ligandswill bring your temperature down,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1206.38,"endTime":1206.56,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1206.695,"endTime":1208.04,"body":"Leonardo: decomposition, temperature down."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1208.105,"endTime":1208.255,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1208.255,"endTime":1213.37,"body":"Because of the, uh, orientationof the ligands and, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1213.505,"endTime":1213.775,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1214.285,"endTime":1217.615,"body":"I mean, sometimes they affect the actualgeometry of the vinyl complex, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1217.615,"endTime":1219.8,"body":"Because when you have a, a bulky legan."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1220.27,"endTime":1223.505,"body":"It doesn't allow the otherligands to access the metal."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1223.535,"endTime":1225.605,"body":"But we can't really predict yet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1226.775,"endTime":1227.285,"body":"Everything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1227.285,"endTime":1233.285,"body":"Let's say even ratio wise, like as soonas you change the ratio of your starting"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1233.345,"endTime":1236.225,"body":"material, you form a different complex."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1236.225,"endTime":1240.275,"body":"So sometimes I had the, Idon't know, Bual ligand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1240.995,"endTime":1243.215,"body":"Ratio one to three."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1243.245,"endTime":1247.385,"body":"So one equivalent of aluminum source,three equivalent of the ligand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1247.865,"endTime":1252.425,"body":"You get, I don't know, tracecomplex, uh, one to two."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1252.575,"endTime":1259.015,"body":"You get a lithium cage, one toone, you get chelate the aluminate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1259.385,"endTime":1260.915,"body":"So it's wild."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1260.945,"endTime":1261.485,"body":"Kevin: Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1262.055,"endTime":1265.945,"body":"And what, what you wanted would'vebeen the chelated aluminate,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1267.8,"endTime":1270.5,"body":"Leonardo: Uh, on, in the first place?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1270.56,"endTime":1273.41,"body":"No, we were not expecting it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1273.92,"endTime":1277.955,"body":"But then when we found out, when,when, when we found it, we were excited"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1277.955,"endTime":1279.515,"body":"because the chemistry was quite new."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1279.545,"endTime":1284.16,"body":"So in the literature you oftenfind this, beta-keto iminates being"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1284.16,"endTime":1288.75,"body":"chelating, minus one, uh, mono mono."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1288.75,"endTime":1288.99,"body":"It was"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1288.99,"endTime":1289.68,"body":"quite new."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1290.43,"endTime":1293.76,"body":"The dianionic characterof the ligand, let's say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1293.76,"endTime":1295.65,"body":"No, I was not the first one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1295.65,"endTime":1300.78,"body":"I found only one papermentioning it on a on a sentence."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1300.78,"endTime":1304.41,"body":"But that was interesting,like from a chemical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1304.44,"endTime":1304.5,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1304.5,"endTime":1304.92,"body":"Leonardo: point of view."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1304.95,"endTime":1308.22,"body":"'cause I'm a synthetic chemist,so I'm quite excited on that side."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1309.39,"endTime":1312.03,"body":"But by mistake, serendipity,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1312.72,"endTime":1312.96,"body":"Kevin: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1313.47,"endTime":1315.39,"body":"' Leonardo: cause it wasn'ta mistake to be honest."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1315.39,"endTime":1316.29,"body":"It was on purpose."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1316.29,"endTime":1317.76,"body":"But let's say serendipity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1317.97,"endTime":1322.71,"body":"Kevin: it also could have not worked,but then it, always trial and error"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1322.71,"endTime":1327.39,"body":"kind of, and then you get luckywith some stuff that works and then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1327.765,"endTime":1331.065,"body":"You even find a new component Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1331.065,"endTime":1332.085,"body":"That's, that's great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1332.415,"endTime":1340.215,"body":"And um, then with these, uh, diinonicforms, you said that, there's a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1340.275,"endTime":1346.345,"body":"lithium and you also try to swapthat lithium for other metals"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1346.365,"endTime":1348.825,"body":"and ideally would be also have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1348.875,"endTime":1349.625,"body":"aluminum."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1349.865,"endTime":1356.21,"body":"So in the end when you decomposethis complex, then there's just no"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1356.21,"endTime":1358.34,"body":"chance of lithium because there's no,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1358.88,"endTime":1359.17,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1360.26,"endTime":1361.58,"body":"Kevin: but what was the approach on this?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1361.58,"endTime":1365.12,"body":"How could you change the, the, the second"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1365.365,"endTime":1367.375,"body":"Leonardo: with trans metallation reaction."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1367.555,"endTime":1372.168,"body":"So my idea was, I can take these,complex and react it with, I."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1372.733,"endTime":1376.813,"body":"AlCl3, uh, other aluminum hydrides."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1377.173,"endTime":1379.003,"body":"A bit, a bit of everything, to be honest."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1379.033,"endTime":1383.923,"body":"'cause uh, there wasn't any research onit, so we were literally like exploring."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1385.743,"endTime":1390.663,"body":"I tried to react it with thesedifferent chemicals, but from"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1390.663,"endTime":1392.283,"body":"the NMR, I couldn't really tell."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1393.003,"endTime":1393.873,"body":"What was going on?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1393.903,"endTime":1395.883,"body":"Something was happening for some of them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1396.033,"endTime":1397.893,"body":"There is somethinginteresting and promising."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1398.583,"endTime":1403.743,"body":"However, um, the NMR for thiscomplexity is quite noisy, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1403.743,"endTime":1406.863,"body":"There are a lot of sharp fix andyou're like, what's going on now?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1408.363,"endTime":1410.103,"body":"So that, that was tough."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1410.193,"endTime":1411.933,"body":"I tried different crystallization, so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1413.658,"endTime":1418.398,"body":"If you read my PhD thesis, there aremany reactions on that, but not all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1418.398,"endTime":1420.498,"body":"of them are, uh, let's say successful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1420.498,"endTime":1426.168,"body":"I showed some NMR in the thesis andI was like, um, this is what I got."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1426.528,"endTime":1434.598,"body":"Uh, that's the NMR I can try to guess,but again, I can't really prove any, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1435.333,"endTime":1435.513,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1436.263,"endTime":1439.563,"body":"Especially when it's new and youdon't have anything to compare to,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1439.563,"endTime":1441.438,"body":"it's much, much more difficult."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1442.428,"endTime":1443.028,"body":"Leonardo: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1443.148,"endTime":1443.628,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1443.628,"endTime":1444.618,"body":"So I try my best."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1444.618,"endTime":1446.418,"body":"I discuss it with the examiners as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1446.448,"endTime":1448.008,"body":"They were like, we got it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1448.038,"endTime":1448.878,"body":"You did a lot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1448.878,"endTime":1452.358,"body":"But, uh, untractable mixture we call it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1454.038,"endTime":1458.358,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, with these metal complexes,sometimes it's also with the NMR, it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1458.358,"endTime":1464.298,"body":"difficult because depending on howthey are oriented, you get different"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1465.498,"endTime":1472.248,"body":"peaks in the NMR and when you just haveseveral different orientation complexes in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1472.248,"endTime":1474.438,"body":"your solution, which can also happen then."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1474.468,"endTime":1475.313,"body":"Uh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1476.088,"endTime":1477.198,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah, you can."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1477.198,"endTime":1479.803,"body":"You can have recemic mix mixtures well, so"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1481.008,"endTime":1486.318,"body":"Kevin: Or, uh, within the timeframeof the NMR fast and slow rotations,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1486.318,"endTime":1488.358,"body":"which also mess things up and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1489.213,"endTime":1489.513,"body":"Leonardo: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1489.813,"endTime":1493.083,"body":"There are a lot of lowtemperatures, NMR in that thesis."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1494.163,"endTime":1494.643,"body":"Sometimes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1494.643,"endTime":1498.723,"body":"I don't even wanna look at thatanymore, but, uh, yeah, we tried,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1498.723,"endTime":1503.013,"body":"we tried our best to like, um, coolit down and freeze some movement."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1503.013,"endTime":1503.403,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1503.673,"endTime":1507.573,"body":"Or like slow down some movement tosee something, but for some of them"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1507.573,"endTime":1509.163,"body":"it was, it was just unsuccessful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1509.223,"endTime":1512.913,"body":"So, but that's part of theresearch, like when you explore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1513.488,"endTime":1514.208,"body":"Blind."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1514.263,"endTime":1514.743,"body":"Kevin: course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1515.165,"endTime":1516.005,"body":"Leonardo: That's the risk."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1516.215,"endTime":1520.445,"body":"That's why then I changeligand towards the end."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1521.07,"endTime":1521.25,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1521.25,"endTime":1524.37,"body":"That's, uh, always good to have a backup."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1525.725,"endTime":1526.085,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1526.085,"endTime":1529.82,"body":"Just in case you know, orfresh things to, to experiment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1530.01,"endTime":1530.19,"body":"Kevin: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1530.19,"endTime":1535.5,"body":"So, with your research inmind, where do you see this?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1536.055,"endTime":1544.155,"body":"Um, in the future application, if thisidea of having the metal organic complex"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1544.635,"endTime":1550.375,"body":"working with this aluminum, how, howwould this be applied in the future?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1551.965,"endTime":1554.425,"body":"Leonardo: So first I would saywe need more literature on it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1554.635,"endTime":1560.005,"body":"So hopefully the group is going topublish more things and, uh, 'cause they,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1560.155,"endTime":1562.135,"body":"they, they work with different metals."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1562.315,"endTime":1565.495,"body":"Like even me, I collaboratedwith, um, with other people"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1565.495,"endTime":1566.575,"body":"as well on different metals."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1566.575,"endTime":1570.025,"body":"So let's say the researchis slowly like, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1570.91,"endTime":1573.28,"body":"Discovering ways of depositing it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1573.67,"endTime":1576.79,"body":"But once it works, I mean, wemanaged to do the first non"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1576.79,"endTime":1579.55,"body":"pyrophoric, uh, precursor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1580.54,"endTime":1587.56,"body":"So ideally, if it's user friendly,I, I can see this applied in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1587.56,"endTime":1589.75,"body":"industry for printed electronics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1589.75,"endTime":1595.27,"body":"So that's a way of doingsmaller, smaller electronics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1595.775,"endTime":1598.625,"body":"But it's not just, it's not just the size."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1598.625,"endTime":1601.205,"body":"It's more like the userfriendliness of that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1601.385,"endTime":1607.835,"body":"Like you don't need sophisticatedequipment or glove boxes or hopefully"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1607.835,"endTime":1615.245,"body":"like you, you just take it, spray it,heat a hundred degrees done conductive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1615.305,"endTime":1616.025,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1616.685,"endTime":1617.74,"body":"mind blowing, but"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1618.275,"endTime":1618.635,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1618.905,"endTime":1623.165,"body":"And it would be a lot more safe because,uh, if you have safer components,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1623.165,"endTime":1628.535,"body":"there's also a big part of the greenchemistry that you want to swap out"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1628.685,"endTime":1632.045,"body":"more dangerous components for less ones."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1632.075,"endTime":1632.285,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1632.765,"endTime":1633.575,"body":"And this still."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1633.98,"endTime":1639.17,"body":"Relatively fundamental research,which lays the basis for future"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1639.17,"endTime":1644.3,"body":"research, and then other groupscan pick up on that, who focus more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1644.3,"endTime":1646.67,"body":"on the printing part, and then no"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1647.35,"endTime":1647.96,"body":"apply that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1647.975,"endTime":1651.815,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah, because we arelike, uh, Caroline Group is quite"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1651.815,"endTime":1653.825,"body":"expert in, uh, schlenk chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1653.825,"endTime":1657.455,"body":"So all of us, we do prettydangerous chemistry, I would say"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1657.635,"endTime":1662.855,"body":"from low valent aluminum sometimesto, uh, just aluminum complexes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1663.365,"endTime":1666.755,"body":"And, um, it's an expertise."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1667.67,"endTime":1670.1,"body":"Quite dangerous, I would"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1670.1,"endTime":1670.49,"body":"say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1671.06,"endTime":1675.95,"body":"So we, we can do it and someoneelse can use more user friendly"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1676.025,"endTime":1676.445,"body":"Kevin: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1676.895,"endTime":1677.045,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1677.075,"endTime":1679.865,"body":"That, that's also a greatthing because then it's."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1681.755,"endTime":1684.275,"body":"An advantage and disadvantageat the same time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1684.275,"endTime":1687.995,"body":"I would say if you do chemistry thatnot a lot of other groups can do,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1688.415,"endTime":1693.755,"body":"it's like you have less competition,but you also have less opportunities"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1693.755,"endTime":1695.495,"body":"to look at other people's work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1696.035,"endTime":1701.835,"body":"Like in our group, uh, we alsodid, even cyanide chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1702.225,"endTime":1702.825,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1702.825,"endTime":1703.095,"body":"uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1703.995,"endTime":1710.025,"body":"That was pretty much one of the fewgroups worldwide who do research on this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1710.325,"endTime":1715.435,"body":"I mean, I also did, uh, Schlenkchemistry and did some, phosphines, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1715.465,"endTime":1721.165,"body":"for mel complexes , but I think theywere not as reactive as the aluminum."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1721.165,"endTime":1725.975,"body":"Once I worked with methylaluminum and that was."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1727.785,"endTime":1728.205,"body":"Leonardo: That's."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1728.705,"endTime":1733.275,"body":"Kevin: There was even withinthe schlink, like the inert"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1733.275,"endTime":1735.89,"body":"Schlenk setup, it was smoking, so"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1736.94,"endTime":1737.675,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1737.675,"endTime":1739.805,"body":"No, that's, that's extremely dangerous."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1739.865,"endTime":1744.995,"body":"That's why we're like, if we cantransform that in something more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1744.995,"endTime":1748.385,"body":"user friendly, yes, you will havea powder that maybe bubbles a bit,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1749.52,"endTime":1751.02,"body":"Kevin: It will not catch fire instantly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1751.025,"endTime":1753.845,"body":"Leonardo: do you really want tocompare a bit of bubbles with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1755.345,"endTime":1757.955,"body":"fme the nitrogen is fuming?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1757.955,"endTime":1758.375,"body":"I'm like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1758.99,"endTime":1759.71,"body":"Kevin: definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1759.965,"endTime":1761.315,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah, that's why."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1761.42,"endTime":1766.94,"body":"Kevin: So Schlink chemistry is alsowhat, uh, what's the idea for your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1767.54,"endTime":1769.67,"body":"Instagram and, uh, TikTok profile?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1769.7,"endTime":1770,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1770.285,"endTime":1771.907,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1772.295,"endTime":1776.825,"body":"Well, it all, it all started Sofirst, I mean, Caroline, she's not the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1776.825,"endTime":1778.595,"body":"only one doing precursor chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1778.595,"endTime":1779.495,"body":"It's quite popular."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1779.945,"endTime":1782.645,"body":"We have Claire Kmart,the head of department."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1782.645,"endTime":1783.815,"body":"She has a big group."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1783.815,"endTime":1787.355,"body":"She works with, uh, CBD deposition, so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1787.865,"endTime":1788.615,"body":"She's not the only one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1788.765,"endTime":1792.185,"body":"It's just like aluminum,precursor is quite difficult."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1792.605,"endTime":1797.855,"body":"But, um, yeah, I just startedduring the PhD making some"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1797.855,"endTime":1799.685,"body":"videos on my personal account."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1801.095,"endTime":1806.825,"body":"'cause I just enjoyed the, like sharingthe, showing the lab to the people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1807.505,"endTime":1811.285,"body":"But then on my personalaccount it was a bit messy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1811.285,"endTime":1811.525,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1811.525,"endTime":1813.265,"body":"Like on Instagram you have."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1813.805,"endTime":1815.995,"body":"What you do, your hobbies?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1816.145,"endTime":1819.475,"body":"The chemistry lab, it was a bit, thealgorithm didn't really understand"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1819.475,"endTime":1823.795,"body":"what I was showing on the account,so just for my colleagues, let's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1823.93,"endTime":1829.03,"body":"Kevin: I mean, it is very excitingresearch and also for, uh, chemists"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1829.03,"endTime":1834.4,"body":"who just do other kind of research,this whole Schlenk set up, I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1834.4,"endTime":1836.2,"body":"think is always very fascinating."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1837.085,"endTime":1840.715,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah, and then Idecided to go more vertical."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1840.715,"endTime":1843.835,"body":"I was like, okay, I'm gonnaopen an account on TikTok."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1844.46,"endTime":1848.24,"body":"Last year when I, I'llgo vertical on that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1848.3,"endTime":1852.32,"body":"'cause anytime I talk about chemistryto my friends that are not in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1852.32,"endTime":1857.27,"body":"science at all, if they don'tget bored, it's like, I can't"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1857.27,"endTime":1859.73,"body":"really, I can't really say much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1859.73,"endTime":1864.47,"body":"'cause on the second sentenceor word, they're like already."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1865.33,"endTime":1868,"body":"Somewhere else, especially when you talk."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1868,"endTime":1873.55,"body":"So, but then when I show the videos, likefrom the kids, like my nephew's, uh, age,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1873.55,"endTime":1879.01,"body":"so 6-year-old to old people, when youshow a video and you're like, look what I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1879.205,"endTime":1879.625,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1881.65,"endTime":1883.6,"body":"Leonardo: that, that has a power on this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1883.6,"endTime":1884.56,"body":"Like it's cool."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1884.62,"endTime":1888.19,"body":"At least ugly, difficult,dangerous, but cool"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1888.595,"endTime":1888.715,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1888.715,"endTime":1893.095,"body":"But showing that is also theninteresting is like you can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1893.095,"endTime":1895.135,"body":"have a lot of color changes"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1895.185,"endTime":1898.215,"body":"Leonardo: No, but it was nice, likesometimes I posted, I don't know, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1898.245,"endTime":1902.595,"body":"videos of the flask with the liquidstirring and people were like, oh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1902.595,"endTime":1904.755,"body":"why are you making whiskey ice cream?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1904.755,"endTime":1907.905,"body":"You know, like, but that attract people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1908.355,"endTime":1910.095,"body":"And that's how it started."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1910.125,"endTime":1912.105,"body":"'cause I was like, I can just show"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1912.105,"endTime":1915.315,"body":"it to everyone and, uh, bring."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1916.35,"endTime":1918.9,"body":"Lab chemistry closer to people."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1918.9,"endTime":1921.24,"body":"'cause there are a lotof people doing shows."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1922.08,"endTime":1925.62,"body":"I also did some, uh,outreach events with UCL."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1925.83,"endTime":1928.983,"body":"We did, I don't know,the red cabbage juice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1929.433,"endTime":1932.973,"body":"If you add uh, differentsubstances, it changes color."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1933.393,"endTime":1934.053,"body":"But that's nice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1934.053,"endTime":1937.083,"body":"But it's, for me, it's likethat is not the chemistry"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1937.113,"endTime":1937.403,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1937.403,"endTime":1937.833,"body":"Leonardo: actually do."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1939.453,"endTime":1943.443,"body":"So I was like, I want tobring my space out there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1944.508,"endTime":1946.218,"body":"Because no one knows what we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1946.218,"endTime":1946.428,"body":"do"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1946.573,"endTime":1946.973,"body":"kevin_1_06-26-2025_130748 2: exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1947.238,"endTime":1948.798,"body":"Leonardo: They don'teven think we're working."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1948.798,"endTime":1949.433,"body":"To be honest."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1949.953,"endTime":1950.523,"body":"Kevin: And there,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1950.623,"endTime":1951.513,"body":"Leonardo: It's not even a job."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1951.603,"endTime":1956.433,"body":"Kevin: there are very littleaccounts on, on social media, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1956.433,"endTime":1959.043,"body":"actually share chemistry research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1959.343,"endTime":1964.533,"body":"Uh, when I also started withthe podcast, uh, I was first"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1964.533,"endTime":1967.923,"body":"looking on the podcast platforms."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1967.953,"endTime":1968.253,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1968.303,"endTime":1971.183,"body":"I kind of miss chemistry, soI want to listen more to like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1971.183,"endTime":1973.403,"body":"chemistry stuff to keep up and."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1974.048,"endTime":1975.428,"body":"They were just so few."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1975.428,"endTime":1979.808,"body":"They were just some, and they werealso in very specific niches, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1979.808,"endTime":1983.798,"body":"is okay, but they were not reallythe ones I was interested in."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1983.798,"endTime":1987.548,"body":"And I was like, okay, I wouldjust start one of my own then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1989.003,"endTime":1989.903,"body":"Leonardo: I have to do it if"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1989.903,"endTime":1990.383,"body":"no one is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1990.488,"endTime":1990.818,"body":"kevin_1_06-26-2025_130748 2: And"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1990.878,"endTime":1995.258,"body":"Kevin: also connect them to, toother researchers and getting"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1995.738,"endTime":1999.818,"body":"this chemical research a bitmore broader audience because."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2000.358,"endTime":2005.098,"body":"Chemists are very good in doing theresearch, but sometimes the communication"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2005.098,"endTime":2010.768,"body":"about it is not in their focus because,well, you also are very busy in the lab"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2010.768,"endTime":2017.338,"body":"and then you not think about, uh, to sharethis on social media or so might think"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2017.338,"endTime":2019.138,"body":"that other people would not be interested."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2019.138,"endTime":2024.178,"body":"But in your case, uh, you alreadygathered quite a large audience"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2025.008,"endTime":2025.288,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2025.438,"endTime":2026.608,"body":"Yeah, I was lucky on that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2026.788,"endTime":2029.908,"body":"I mean, academics canbe realities as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2029.998,"endTime":2030.838,"body":"I have to say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2031.048,"endTime":2036.268,"body":"I'm not gonna defend academia thatmuch, but that's the problem, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2036.268,"endTime":2040.948,"body":"Like if you communicate too muchof you're, if you're too funny, too"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2040.948,"endTime":2043.948,"body":"colloquial, that means you're not smart"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2044.308,"endTime":2044.908,"body":"Kevin: Uh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2044.908,"endTime":2045.268,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2045.328,"endTime":2045.658,"body":"That's a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2045.688,"endTime":2047.878,"body":"Leonardo: That's a big problem,especially at conferences."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2047.878,"endTime":2050.998,"body":"That's why all thispressure, this stuff, when."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2051.358,"endTime":2055.138,"body":"It, it's my creativity startedon the PowerPoint presentation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2055.228,"endTime":2056.068,"body":"I love to do"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2056.068,"endTime":2059.368,"body":"PowerPoint presentation, butalso challenge myself, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2059.368,"endTime":2065.578,"body":"Like maybe I see on TikTok tutorials tomake, uh, animations and I'm like, if"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2065.728,"endTime":2070.348,"body":"Apple, when they release their product,they can do a keynote that it's cool."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2071.098,"endTime":2076.498,"body":"Why can't I do a keynote thatit's as cool as Apple and not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2076.498,"endTime":2077.068,"body":"boring."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2078.508,"endTime":2079.948,"body":"So that's how it started."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2080.413,"endTime":2082.153,"body":"The creativity on that side."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2082.213,"endTime":2086.383,"body":"And then I realized that, yeah, Imean I tried to cap it a bit hidden."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2086.443,"endTime":2089.803,"body":"To be honest, I didn't spread theword that much in the department."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2090.373,"endTime":2093.943,"body":"'cause people tend to think, ohyeah, you do funny videos, then okay,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2094.033,"endTime":2099.043,"body":"you must not work much or you mustnot know a lot about your field."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2099.043,"endTime":2101.263,"body":"That's the stigma."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2101.278,"endTime":2104.428,"body":"Kevin: I think what one, uh,the, that really depends also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2104.428,"endTime":2107.158,"body":"on the field, but I think the."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2107.938,"endTime":2111.388,"body":"Competition also sometimes isplays a role that you, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2111.388,"endTime":2115.378,"body":"I don't want to share any of mywork because someone might scoop me"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2116.238,"endTime":2116.568,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2116.658,"endTime":2120.913,"body":"Yeah, but I noticed that youdon't have to share everything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2121.973,"endTime":2125.123,"body":"So you can always sharesomething, a teaser."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2126.233,"endTime":2127.943,"body":"And that doesn't mean you're telling them"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2127.943,"endTime":2128.603,"body":"how you do it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2128.873,"endTime":2130.853,"body":"You're just showing whatyou do and make it cool."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2130.853,"endTime":2136.463,"body":"But the problem is that unlessyou are big enough, you're not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2136.463,"endTime":2138.053,"body":"really getting involved in that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2138.053,"endTime":2142.463,"body":"Like PhD students, they doposter session at conferences."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2142.463,"endTime":2147.023,"body":"If they're lucky, they can dosome talk short talk, but it's all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2147.023,"endTime":2150.713,"body":"about, you know, the big scientist,the Nobel Prize, the, and that's."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2151.298,"endTime":2151.778,"body":"Fine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2151.808,"endTime":2156.188,"body":"I mean, I got a lot of inspirationfrom these talks and motivation,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2156.878,"endTime":2159.398,"body":"but still like, what about us?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2159.668,"endTime":2161.018,"body":"All of us in the lab every day?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2161.048,"endTime":2163.988,"body":"'cause when I tell my friends,I'm like, yes, I'm in the lab."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2164.048,"endTime":2168.818,"body":"Some of them think that I'm24 7 in the lab and that's it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2169.778,"endTime":2173.528,"body":"And they're like, yeah, you don't doadmin work, you don't do any of that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2173.528,"endTime":2175.058,"body":"I'm like, that's part of the."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2175.358,"endTime":2175.658,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2175.658,"endTime":2179.048,"body":"Especially at the, the PhD,I think when you're like, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2179.678,"endTime":2184.598,"body":"Professional researcher in someresearch institute after the PhD, then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2184.598,"endTime":2189.218,"body":"it might be a diff bit different, butalso Germany I did a lot of teaching,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2189.428,"endTime":2194.618,"body":"teaching lab courses, teaching classes,and that adds up to the whole workload."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2194.618,"endTime":2195.248,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2196.223,"endTime":2196.793,"body":"Leonardo: exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2196.973,"endTime":2202.883,"body":"So I'm just happy to share it like that'show it works and nobody talks and the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2202.883,"endTime":2206.963,"body":"scientists online are often biochemists."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2207.878,"endTime":2215.888,"body":"Biology, saving the world, uh, withtreatment for cancer, anything great,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2216.308,"endTime":2217.748,"body":"but there's no pure chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2217.821,"endTime":2219.051,"body":"Kevin: That that is really true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2219.338,"endTime":2221.168,"body":"Leonardo: So what is inorganic chemistry?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2221.168,"endTime":2223.388,"body":"They always think about, I don'tknow, the rocks, the things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2223.388,"endTime":2227.948,"body":"And I'm like, yeah, but we have,yes, but we have labs there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2228.638,"endTime":2229.418,"body":"Take care of that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2229.443,"endTime":2229.733,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2229.738,"endTime":2233.708,"body":"It's maybe because people thinkit's about more relatable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2234.968,"endTime":2240.818,"body":"So, I mean, when you do cancer research,everyone somehow knows what that is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2241.538,"endTime":2249.268,"body":"Uh, but when you do some metalorganic complexes, that's even,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2249.748,"endTime":2250.288,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2250.408,"endTime":2251.398,"body":"Leonardo: the audience on the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2251.518,"endTime":2253.498,"body":"Kevin: You even lost a lot of chemists"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2254.458,"endTime":2256.618,"body":"Leonardo: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2256.678,"endTime":2259.018,"body":"But we can make it like my, my"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2259.018,"endTime":2261.448,"body":"mission, let's say, is like, we can make"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2261.448,"endTime":2261.868,"body":"it fun."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2263.023,"endTime":2266.413,"body":"cause you don't have to tell meall the conditions you used, all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2266.413,"endTime":2268.153,"body":"the ratio, all the stuff you used."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2268.513,"endTime":2269.773,"body":"You have a broader audience."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2269.863,"endTime":2270.283,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2270.343,"endTime":2271.573,"body":"I'll show you my crystals."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2271.873,"endTime":2272.953,"body":"They're super nice at the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2273.233,"endTime":2273.493,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2273.613,"endTime":2273.883,"body":"Leonardo: right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2273.883,"endTime":2274.303,"body":"Like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2274.913,"endTime":2281.663,"body":"Kevin: To break down what you do in a verysimple way so other people can understand."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2281.663,"endTime":2287.213,"body":"It also helps you to reallythink about it differently."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2287.213,"endTime":2289.313,"body":"Sometimes even discover stuff that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2289.988,"endTime":2295.448,"body":"Under this lens you can see, but whenyou just focus on your work, you don't,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2296.441,"endTime":2296.771,"body":"Leonardo: yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2296.951,"endTime":2301.781,"body":"Kevin: talking about it is, uh,is always difficult if you have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2301.781,"endTime":2305.321,"body":"to explain it to someone who isnot in the field, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2306.551,"endTime":2306.821,"body":"Leonardo: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2307.061,"endTime":2312.161,"body":"But also I have to say alsoin conferences, what is this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2312.161,"endTime":2316.031,"body":"need of using such a fancylanguage to explain what you do?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2317.231,"endTime":2319.091,"body":"Because you have 12 minutes presentations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2319.091,"endTime":2319.391,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2319.961,"endTime":2321.071,"body":"I, I agree."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2321.461,"endTime":2323.081,"body":"We need specific language."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2323.081,"endTime":2326.771,"body":"There is a reason all thenomenclature of the chemicals that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2326.771,"endTime":2331.211,"body":"we learned at the beginning, like,it's crazy, but let's use it fine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2332.111,"endTime":2336.281,"body":"But also we don't need to be asfancy 'cause you're gonna lose your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2336.281,"endTime":2337.871,"body":"audience 'cause people are distracted."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2337.901,"endTime":2343.031,"body":"Even if it's a very niche conferencewhere people want to network."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2343.061,"endTime":2344.981,"body":"If you are not a big name."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2345.566,"endTime":2351.686,"body":"So if you're no one, as the majorityof all of us, then you go there,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2351.746,"endTime":2355.076,"body":"you use fancy language and peoplescroll on the phone, are distracted."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2355.076,"endTime":2356.486,"body":"Bored is after lunch."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2357.306,"endTime":2360.646,"body":"I always say use less fancy jargon,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2360.856,"endTime":2361.096,"body":"Kevin: Hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2361.756,"endTime":2364.636,"body":"Leonardo: but keep the audiencefocused on your presentation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2365.476,"endTime":2367.636,"body":"Kevin: less stuff on one slide."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2367.966,"endTime":2371.836,"body":"There are so many presentations onthese conferences where they have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2371.836,"endTime":2376.396,"body":"like every millimeter of space is used"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2376.396,"endTime":2382.396,"body":"by kind of, uh, figure orsomething, and it's overwhelming, so"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2382.846,"endTime":2386.416,"body":"Leonardo: And also, I hatethis basic presentation, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2386.446,"endTime":2387.826,"body":"divided in four parts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2387.826,"endTime":2391.756,"body":"I'm like, we have enough of the,it's like at least the young"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2391.756,"endTime":2395.026,"body":"generations we can do better and for free."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2395.056,"endTime":2397.786,"body":"'cause if you go online, you canfind many tutorials to make it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2398.551,"endTime":2402.781,"body":"Kevin: And also plus part of,uh, having a really good and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2402.781,"endTime":2407.161,"body":"entertaining presentation is thatafterwards people will remember it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2407.881,"endTime":2411.481,"body":"They will come to you and talkyour, I like really this part,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2411.691,"endTime":2413.281,"body":"because that's how you make them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2413.281,"endTime":2418.288,"body":"Remember when it's just verynot fluctuating then they will"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2418.288,"endTime":2419.943,"body":"just as you said, scroll on the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2420.267,"endTime":2420.837,"body":"Leonardo: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2420.926,"endTime":2421.136,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2421.936,"endTime":2424.936,"body":"I mean, if they want to dig inthe topic, they can always, I."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2425.731,"endTime":2430.711,"body":"Log in on Google Scholar and readthe paper, supporting information."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2430.711,"endTime":2433.861,"body":"They can read all the data, butI don't think a conference is the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2433.861,"endTime":2436.831,"body":"place to do that unless I don't know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2436.831,"endTime":2440.581,"body":"For a couple of slides, you have a veryspecific topic you want to share, discuss,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2440.581,"endTime":2445.411,"body":"or flex your knowledge on something, butnot the whole presentation, let's say"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2445.591,"endTime":2448.021,"body":"Kevin: Also this flexing the knowledge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2448.021,"endTime":2449.551,"body":"I think that's what a lot of people do."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2449.581,"endTime":2451.081,"body":"That doesn't really help."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2451.231,"endTime":2451.891,"body":"It's like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2452.641,"endTime":2452.701,"body":"Leonardo: it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2453.001,"endTime":2457.681,"body":"Kevin: the audience, you lose theaudience, and then who are you flexing to?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2458.801,"endTime":2459.916,"body":"Leonardo: Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2459.976,"endTime":2460.636,"body":"To yourself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2461.056,"endTime":2466.876,"body":"But I have, I have to say above acertain level, the very big people"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2466.876,"endTime":2471.316,"body":"like Nobel Prize winner or like peopleat the end of their career when they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2471.316,"endTime":2475.131,"body":"do talks, and sometimes it's like,uh, main speakers or 40 minutes talk."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2476.581,"endTime":2482.251,"body":"Yes, they have those 10 minutesof very difficult chemistry,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2482.731,"endTime":2484.651,"body":"but it's always very inspiring."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2484.681,"endTime":2486.751,"body":"More broad, more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2487.171,"endTime":2490.861,"body":"I, I'm showing you the mission,the pathway I followed."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2491.731,"endTime":2492.301,"body":"I find,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2492.961,"endTime":2493.201,"body":"why"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2493.276,"endTime":2493.566,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2494.551,"endTime":2497.041,"body":"Well, they also have a lot ofreps, if you think about it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2497.191,"endTime":2498.361,"body":"There's so many."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2498.361,"endTime":2502.261,"body":"Leonardo: true, that's alsotrue, but you, it's all about the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2502.351,"endTime":2502.531,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2503.236,"endTime":2503.926,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2504.376,"endTime":2508.726,"body":"What, uh, tips would you have,uh, for the audience in terms"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2508.726,"endTime":2512.326,"body":"of, uh, storytelling for science?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2512.946,"endTime":2513.706,"body":"Do you have some"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2513.951,"endTime":2518.901,"body":"Leonardo: For presentation atevents, conferences, uh, I would"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2518.901,"endTime":2521.271,"body":"keep it simple, always simple."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2521.271,"endTime":2529.281,"body":"Uh, as a non-native speaker, uh, Englishspeaker, I always suggest I would love"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2529.281,"endTime":2535.041,"body":"to use fancy jargon and fancy words,but it's not my native language,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2535.371,"endTime":2538.431,"body":"so I would rather keep it simple."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2539.211,"endTime":2541.221,"body":"Don't learn a script by"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2541.221,"endTime":2541.821,"body":"heart."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2542.751,"endTime":2547.521,"body":"Have your bullet points, keywords thatguide you through your presentation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2547.521,"endTime":2551.061,"body":"So if you have a blackout,you look at your slides and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2551.061,"endTime":2552.741,"body":"you can pick up at any point"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2552.926,"endTime":2553.216,"body":"Kevin: That's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2553.761,"endTime":2555.891,"body":"Leonardo: because it's fine for one time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2555.891,"endTime":2558.351,"body":"Maybe at the beginning you learneverything, you're stressed out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2558.981,"endTime":2563.181,"body":"But long term it's stressyou out, tires you out."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2563.826,"endTime":2567.366,"body":"Also, it might happen that day whenyou have a blackout, you're tired and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2567.366,"endTime":2569.226,"body":"you forgot what you're talking about."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2570.126,"endTime":2572.976,"body":"Whereas if you have a slide, you'relike, okay, what's this about?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2573.096,"endTime":2574.116,"body":"I have to say this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2574.176,"endTime":2574.896,"body":"What's next?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2574.896,"endTime":2575.406,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2575.466,"endTime":2579.516,"body":"I'll see it and I'll tell youlike, so these four events."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2580.416,"endTime":2586.356,"body":"For social media, I mean for socialmedia, it depends on the aim."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2587.676,"endTime":2592.416,"body":"So you want to be funny,be funny, be yourself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2593.346,"endTime":2599.976,"body":"I noticed that since I started showingmyself in the videos and maybe also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2600.216,"endTime":2604.026,"body":"talk, uh, people started coming"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2604.206,"endTime":2605.046,"body":"to the account."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2605.916,"endTime":2608.376,"body":"So authenticity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2608.436,"endTime":2612.906,"body":"And also I know it's difficultto talk on a camera, especially"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2612.906,"endTime":2614.226,"body":"the first time is awkward."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2614.286,"endTime":2615.096,"body":"You are weird."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2615.156,"endTime":2616.746,"body":"You look at yourself, you'relike, what am I doing?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2616.746,"endTime":2618.636,"body":"I can't even hear my voice."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2619.881,"endTime":2624.561,"body":"But as soon as, like the moreyou do it, the better it is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2624.591,"endTime":2625.641,"body":"It becomes And"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2625.641,"endTime":2625.821,"body":"people"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2625.821,"endTime":2626.691,"body":"Kevin: yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2626.961,"endTime":2627.471,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2627.471,"endTime":2630.861,"body":"The authenticity is, is really important."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2630.921,"endTime":2631.701,"body":"If you just."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2632.496,"endTime":2637.506,"body":"Try to be someone else thatmight work for one or two videos"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2637.506,"endTime":2638.616,"body":"or whatever, but"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2638.616,"endTime":2638.886,"body":"not,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2638.916,"endTime":2639.996,"body":"not for a long term."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2641.181,"endTime":2645.126,"body":"Leonardo: Also, like, I don't know,I'm quite, I. Noisy, messy, like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2645.156,"endTime":2647.466,"body":"exuberant character in the lab."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2647.466,"endTime":2651.576,"body":"So if I try to be more formaland authentic, I'm just colder."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2652.146,"endTime":2655.056,"body":"So there's no, there's no aim in that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2655.266,"endTime":2658.626,"body":"And also if someone want tocriticize what you do online,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2659.316,"endTime":2660.756,"body":"there will always be a reason to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2660.756,"endTime":2661.026,"body":"do it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2661.026,"endTime":2663.156,"body":"So just be yourself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2663.156,"endTime":2666.426,"body":"Because sometimes I don't use gloves andpeople are like, you should wear gloves."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2666.426,"endTime":2668.796,"body":"I. Do you know what I'm doing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2669.711,"endTime":2669.951,"body":"Kevin: yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2670.236,"endTime":2670.716,"body":"Leonardo: right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2671.526,"endTime":2673.236,"body":"I can't wear gloves every time in a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2673.431,"endTime":2673.581,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2674.121,"endTime":2675.351,"body":"Sometimes it's even worse."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2675.356,"endTime":2675.486,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2676.656,"endTime":2679.296,"body":"Leonardo: It's even worse 'causethey're not like a shield."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2679.326,"endTime":2683.856,"body":"Like things go through and it's bettersometimes to not have it and wash your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2683.856,"endTime":2684.636,"body":"hands more often."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2684.636,"endTime":2688.386,"body":"So that, that's a hot topicin the, in the videos."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2688.701,"endTime":2689.001,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2689.031,"endTime":2689.541,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2690.141,"endTime":2695.691,"body":"And, uh, in this episode, I wantto start a new tradition for, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2695.721,"endTime":2701.351,"body":"closing the episode and what is yourfavorite discovery in chemistry?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2704.396,"endTime":2705.326,"body":"Leonardo: Ah, that's a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2705.326,"endTime":2706.046,"body":"tough one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2708.566,"endTime":2710.186,"body":"Are you sure you want to start with me?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2711.776,"endTime":2713.636,"body":"My favorite discovery,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2715.886,"endTime":2718.226,"body":"I don't really know 'causethey're all great and amazing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2720.176,"endTime":2722.186,"body":"I mean, I would go broad, not specific."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2722.186,"endTime":2723.296,"body":"I would say polymer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2723.776,"endTime":2730.766,"body":"Even if we, we live in a world, no plasticor get a metal bottle rather than, or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2730.766,"endTime":2732.656,"body":"a glass bottle rather than a plastic"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2732.747,"endTime":2733.797,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, that's a good one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2734.569,"endTime":2738.049,"body":"Leonardo: I say I'm a fan of polymers'cause they changed our life."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2738.269,"endTime":2741.439,"body":"If you think about it,your shoes, anything around"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2741.619,"endTime":2741.829,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2742.399,"endTime":2747.619,"body":"There's, uh, almost nothing now Iwould say that comes without polymers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2747.619,"endTime":2747.799,"body":"Like it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2748.894,"endTime":2749.454,"body":"a packaging"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2749.719,"endTime":2753.469,"body":"Leonardo: The problem is we don'tknow how to recycle them and we,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2753.529,"endTime":2755.659,"body":"we make them from the wrong source."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2756.019,"endTime":2761.929,"body":"But I mean, now we know we can progresson that, but that was my, my favorite"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2762.634,"endTime":2765.214,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, that's, that'sdefinitely a very important one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2766.474,"endTime":2769.744,"body":"For me, I would say it'sthe Haber Bosch process."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2770.314,"endTime":2777.074,"body":"It's like the, the, industrialsynthesis of ammonia, which makes all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2777.074,"endTime":2783.074,"body":"this fertilizer production possibleand feeds about two, 3 billion people"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2783.074,"endTime":2784.394,"body":"in the world, which would not be"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2784.664,"endTime":2785.054,"body":"Leonardo: yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2785.204,"endTime":2785.444,"body":"Kevin: that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2785.724,"endTime":2786.024,"body":"Leonardo: true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2786.084,"endTime":2786.834,"body":"That's that's true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2786.834,"endTime":2790.164,"body":"Also then the problem againis the abuse of that, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2790.164,"endTime":2792.894,"body":"Is the quantities, notthe, the actual discovery."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2793.074,"endTime":2793.584,"body":"Kevin: That's true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2793.614,"endTime":2795.114,"body":"Leonardo: But yeah, agree."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2795.654,"endTime":2798.984,"body":"Kevin: Then thank you verymuch for taking the time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2799.194,"endTime":2801.324,"body":"was a really fun discussion."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2801.384,"endTime":2805.464,"body":"And then, yeah, I will alsoput, uh, the links to your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2805.794,"endTime":2807.984,"body":"socials in the show notes and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2808.044,"endTime":2808.314,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2808.344,"endTime":2808.779,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2809.449,"endTime":2810.529,"body":"Leonardo: Thank you very much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2811.366,"endTime":2813.646,"body":"Kevin: I hope you enjoyed this episode."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2813.646,"endTime":2816.136,"body":"Thank you very much for listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2816.496,"endTime":2821.146,"body":"Don't forget to hit the follow buttonwherever you're listening to this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2821.236,"endTime":2823.426,"body":"It really helps to showmore than you think."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2824.005,"endTime":2828.895,"body":"Also, check out Leonardo'sInstagram and TikTok account."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2828.955,"endTime":2831.325,"body":"He has really fun content on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2832.165,"endTime":2834.175,"body":"Science and chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2834.726,"endTime":2840.906,"body":"if you also want to share your researchin the podcast, then let me know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2840.966,"endTime":2846.636,"body":"Either find me on LinkedIn or send anemail to contact@innovateandreact.com."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2848.091,"endTime":2850.671,"body":"Until next time, keepinnovating and stay curious."}]}