{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":null,"startTime":1.013,"endTime":2.903,"body":"Kevin: Welcome to Innovate and React."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3.113,"endTime":8.453,"body":"I'm Kevin Hares, and today we will talkabout how chemistry can solve another"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":8.453,"endTime":11.063,"body":"pressing problem of the shipping industry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":11.633,"endTime":15.953,"body":"For ships to move efficiently throughwater, they need to be smooth."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":16.433,"endTime":20.393,"body":"Rough textures can increasedrag and therefore require"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":20.393,"endTime":22.523,"body":"more energy to move forward."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":23.603,"endTime":27.893,"body":"On the other hand, ships are alsoa perfect place for small creatures"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":27.893,"endTime":33.533,"body":"to attach to, and those can createunevenness on the surface of the ships."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":33.983,"endTime":40.503,"body":"And today I'm with Dr. ChristinaLinke, who is a co-founder of Clean"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":40.543,"endTime":46.457,"body":"Ocean Coatings, and solving thisproblem with innovative coatings."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":46.937,"endTime":48.527,"body":"Hi Christina . Welcome to the show."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":49.087,"endTime":49.547,"body":"Christina: Hi, Kevin."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":50.825,"endTime":56.375,"body":"Kevin: I already mentioned the roughproblems, but maybe let's introduce"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":56.375,"endTime":62.29,"body":"this, um, biofouling, these creaturesthat attach to ships a bit more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":63.391,"endTime":63.781,"body":"Christina: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":63.841,"endTime":68.061,"body":"Uh, as you mentioned, uh, biofouling isa growth of algea and seashells on the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":68.061,"endTime":74.701,"body":"ship Hull, and, uh, it increases dragup to 40% and, uh, this is causing an"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":75.331,"endTime":78.841,"body":"estimated annual damage of $150 billion."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":79.786,"endTime":81.346,"body":"Kevin: Those are huge numbers for,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":81.361,"endTime":82.051,"body":"Christina: well, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":82.231,"endTime":84.001,"body":"Uh, cranking up emissions, right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":84.421,"endTime":84.811,"body":"So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":85.366,"endTime":87.016,"body":"Kevin: it's a double problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":87.016,"endTime":93.259,"body":"It's more costly to do the shipping,but also for the environment badly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":93.769,"endTime":103.164,"body":"And these creatures usually attach to thehull of the ship, and one way would be"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":103.169,"endTime":105.889,"body":"to basically scrape them off regularly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":106.534,"endTime":110.674,"body":"That's way too complicated forall those big shipping companies."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":110.674,"endTime":113.104,"body":"So how are they doing this currently?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":114.014,"endTime":114.215,"body":"Christina: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":114.22,"endTime":119.61,"body":"So, uh, the problem of biofoulingis as old as humankind, uh, because,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":119.64,"endTime":122.31,"body":"uh, we, we were seafarers all along."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":122.67,"endTime":127.67,"body":"And, um, since the sixties we do havevery poisonous antifouling coatings."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":128.48,"endTime":132.18,"body":"Um, they are designed in away to wash off over time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":132.34,"endTime":137.86,"body":"So leaching microplastic and biocidesinto the ocean, or then, uh, with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":137.86,"endTime":143.02,"body":"time, degrade and then takinginitial biofouling with them into the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":143.225,"endTime":147.924,"body":"Kevin: So they're basicallyprotecting the ship by being poisonous"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":147.984,"endTime":152.29,"body":"for those algae and mussel andmuscles and whatever to attach to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":152.29,"endTime":155.664,"body":"So they basically can grow onthe surface, or how do they work?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":156.693,"endTime":160.067,"body":"Christina: Yeah, that's, uh, that's aclaim from most of the big companies,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":160.097,"endTime":162.497,"body":"um, that there will be no growth."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":162.577,"endTime":166.017,"body":"Anyhow, uh, life comes fromthe ocean and it is stronger."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":166.017,"endTime":172.157,"body":"So any surveys submerged, uh, willsooner or later, have biofouling."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":172.342,"endTime":177.702,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, for these big ships, orI remember when I was, um, in these,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":177.766,"endTime":183.155,"body":"locks where you can, uh, move aship in the, rivers from one station"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":183.185,"endTime":185.375,"body":"to a higher surface, for example."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":185.375,"endTime":190.025,"body":"Then you can see all these stuff alsogrowing on the side of the walls of these."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":190.865,"endTime":193.925,"body":"And it's basically thesame with the ships."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":194.225,"endTime":200.71,"body":"Um, but these coatings, So one way they'repoisonous, which is when they leach the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":200.71,"endTime":205.3,"body":"poison into the water bad for the, otherliving creatures in the surrounding."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":205.3,"endTime":207.25,"body":"But you also mentioned microplastic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":207.25,"endTime":211.6,"body":"So are they some kind of, plasticcoating or how can I imagine those?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":212.093,"endTime":212.633,"body":"Christina: Uh, yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":212.903,"endTime":216.318,"body":"Paint is plastic and they like theseso-called self polishing coating."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":217.233,"endTime":221.503,"body":"SPCs, they are designed to washoff over time because, for one,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":221.503,"endTime":225.463,"body":"they need to degrade to, uh,constantly set free biocides."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":225.853,"endTime":228.733,"body":"Uh, and the second partis, to degrade over time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":228.793,"endTime":233.353,"body":"Once when the biocide is leaked,uh, like to fall off and take"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":233.353,"endTime":234.563,"body":"initial bio following with them."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":234.613,"endTime":236.233,"body":"So to clean the vessel by falling"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":236.463,"endTime":236.543,"body":"Kevin: hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":237.238,"endTime":240.96,"body":"So they're actually meant toproduce those microplastics"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":241.215,"endTime":245.175,"body":"Christina: They are meant toproduce, uh, microplastic and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":245.275,"endTime":246.855,"body":"leach bioscience into the ocean."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":246.855,"endTime":251.445,"body":"And it's, uh, yeah, it's like it's biggestlegal pollution we do to our ocean."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":251.57,"endTime":253.52,"body":"It's more than a hundredthousand tons per year."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":254.24,"endTime":254.67,"body":"Kevin: oh, damn,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":254.82,"endTime":255.832,"body":"that's, that's, a lot."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":255.832,"endTime":260.05,"body":"Christina: And by the end of life,uh, more than 50% ended up in the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":260.165,"endTime":260.585,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":260.965,"endTime":263.605,"body":"Christina: So the, uh, big, uh,cargo vessels that typically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":263.605,"endTime":264.925,"body":"coated every five years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":265.675,"endTime":269.215,"body":"And, um, yeah, it's a fewthousand liters per vessel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":269.53,"endTime":274.18,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, and all that basicallyafter five years ends up in the ocean."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":274.72,"endTime":275.05,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":275.83,"endTime":277.27,"body":"That's huge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":277.66,"endTime":282.679,"body":"And also, well, I think notreally talked about that much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":283.6,"endTime":287.62,"body":"Christina: No, and I mean, uh, 90% ofour consumer goods are transported via"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":287.62,"endTime":290.92,"body":"the ocean, and I think we all shouldknow about this problem and be aware."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":293.455,"endTime":299.335,"body":"Kevin: And, um, with your company,you're trying to solve this problem"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":299.335,"endTime":303.505,"body":"with a different kind of coaching,so what are you doing differently?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":305.325,"endTime":308.62,"body":"Christina: Yes, we have a trulyhard coating that does not, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":308.65,"endTime":312.94,"body":"wash off and does not lead to anymicroplastics or toxins into the ocean."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":312.97,"endTime":317.11,"body":"It is completely biocidefree and, uh, additionally it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":317.11,"endTime":318.1,"body":"is completely solvent free."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":318.685,"endTime":323.635,"body":"And, uh, that means that we don't have anymicropores from evaporating solvent and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":323.635,"endTime":325.795,"body":"making it a really close, smooth surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":325.795,"endTime":329.22,"body":"And, um, we have the lowest,uh, surface roughness value,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":329.68,"endTime":331.3,"body":"amongst the anti-fouling coatings."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":332.38,"endTime":338.83,"body":"Kevin: So making the surface so smooththat those creatures don't have anything"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":338.83,"endTime":343.45,"body":"to attach to and they cannot get stuckto the ship, or how can I imagine that?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":343.932,"endTime":347.922,"body":"Christina: So smooth that you have a,a very, very good foul release effect."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":348.042,"endTime":351.012,"body":"It's called foul release effectbecause the microorganisms can only"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":351.252,"endTime":353.652,"body":"attach, um, yeah, on the surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":353.812,"endTime":357.252,"body":"Since we don't have a porous,uh, structure, uh, they cannot"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":357.302,"endTime":359.832,"body":"attach as good as on SPCs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":360.302,"endTime":365.562,"body":"And, uh, therefore when the vesselis regularly moving, it stays"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":365.742,"endTime":367.947,"body":"clean because, um, yeah, it's, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":368.577,"endTime":370.017,"body":"It's like two harsh conditions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":370.857,"endTime":374.667,"body":"Uh, but since we're completely biocidefree, we don't prevent biofouling."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":375.032,"endTime":375.452,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":376.017,"endTime":378.717,"body":"Christina: Uh, but on the otherhand, uh, since it is really,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":378.717,"endTime":380.427,"body":"it's like a tile like surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":380.797,"endTime":384.817,"body":"It is super easy to clean andeven barnacles you can flip off."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":384.847,"endTime":387.557,"body":"And this is typically you haveto damage the coating if you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":387.557,"endTime":388.817,"body":"want to get rid of barnacles."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":389.387,"endTime":391.457,"body":"Um, this is very exceptional."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":391.602,"endTime":392.022,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":392.807,"endTime":395.737,"body":"Christina: So our approach is,yeah, that you do have, uh, a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":395.737,"endTime":398.497,"body":"very hard, a very durable coating."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":398.527,"endTime":403.987,"body":"Um, so our oldest, uh, test patches areeight years old, so we expect at least 10"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":403.987,"endTime":407.077,"body":"years durability instead of five years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":407.467,"endTime":410.187,"body":", And you have the cleanabilityif you have long idle times."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":410.292,"endTime":410.712,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":411.217,"endTime":415.567,"body":"That would already reduce theamount of coating necessary by half."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":415.567,"endTime":418.627,"body":"When you just do it after 10years instead of five years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":419.317,"endTime":420.007,"body":"That's already a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":420.007,"endTime":420.547,"body":"big step."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":420.547,"endTime":420.607,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":421.747,"endTime":424.987,"body":"Christina: Yes, we reduce the opexa lot, but, but even more, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":425.017,"endTime":429.027,"body":"interesting and important for theship owners is, that with the super"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":429.027,"endTime":434.517,"body":"low surface roughness, um, uh, wegenerate at least 7% in fuel savings."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":434.547,"endTime":439.977,"body":"Actually, our current vessels that arerunning report 16 and 20% fuel savings"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":440.337,"endTime":442.047,"body":"even much higher than we expected."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":442.797,"endTime":443.937,"body":"And this is huge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":444.357,"endTime":451.737,"body":"Uh, so I mean, in, in shipping, uh,bunker is your biggest cost, um, factor."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":451.827,"endTime":455.607,"body":"And, uh, when you have lots ofbiofouling can be more than 80% of,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":455.667,"endTime":457.887,"body":"of your operating cost can be bunker."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":458.397,"endTime":464.787,"body":"Uh, and I mean, just right now, uh,oil prices are cranking up, uh, due to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":464.787,"endTime":466.177,"body":"the situation in the street of Hormuz."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":466.748,"endTime":472.47,"body":"so, even for 2% savings, uh, shipowners install like this air lubrication"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":472.47,"endTime":473.94,"body":"systems and other other stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":474,"endTime":476.91,"body":"Um, so 7% is huge at 20 years."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":477.81,"endTime":479.285,"body":"Yeah, it's create is massive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":480.675,"endTime":480.885,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":480.885,"endTime":487.125,"body":"That's also, as we said in thebeginning, it's the, the other side"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":487.125,"endTime":492.855,"body":"of it, it's a double positive effectbecause it saves money by using less"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":492.855,"endTime":497.867,"body":"fuel, but it also saves, uh, a lot ofgreenhouse gases that are emitted, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":498.311,"endTime":498.521,"body":"Christina: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":498.611,"endTime":501.611,"body":"And emissions as well from thesolvents that we save because dock"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":501.611,"endTime":504.701,"body":"yards actually they have to reportas well the solvents they use."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":505.151,"endTime":509.531,"body":"Um, so dock yards, uh, are lookingforward for our coating as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":509.591,"endTime":512.111,"body":"They can reduce emissions there and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":512.396,"endTime":513.356,"body":"Kevin: How are they using"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":513.356,"endTime":513.776,"body":"the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":513.821,"endTime":514.001,"body":"Christina: yard,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":515.156,"endTime":515.666,"body":"Kevin: how are the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":515.891,"endTime":516.956,"body":"Christina: they are applying the pain."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":517.256,"endTime":517.646,"body":"Kevin: Ah, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":517.646,"endTime":517.736,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":518.261,"endTime":521.531,"body":"Christina: Like in, yeah, they areapplying the paints and then it's more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":521.531,"endTime":524.171,"body":"safe for the dock yard workers to use."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":524.201,"endTime":527.441,"body":"Um, because yeah, as well endof life, it's not hazardous"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":527.441,"endTime":528.941,"body":"waste, it's regular waste."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":529.001,"endTime":533.771,"body":"Um, it's easier to handle and yeah,it's a wind for the ocean, of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":533.771,"endTime":537.191,"body":"Um, so we have, uh, multiplewind situation here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":538.076,"endTime":539.036,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, that's, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":539.846,"endTime":542.216,"body":"really a great technology."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":542.606,"endTime":548.336,"body":"And, um, how did you come up withthis technology or your company?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":548.966,"endTime":554.86,"body":"You're a startup, so, it's like comingfrom new invention, I, I imagine."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":555.303,"endTime":555.558,"body":"Christina: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":555.558,"endTime":557.898,"body":"I must admit, I just stumbled upon it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":560.808,"endTime":565.968,"body":"Um, uh, but as well, my, my co-founderwho did the research projects"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":565.968,"endTime":567.498,"body":"on, on the material initially."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":568.308,"endTime":572.208,"body":"Um, I found, uh, thismaterial by serendipity."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":572.238,"endTime":577.433,"body":"Is a, It is a patent from University Kieland, um, there was a technology transfer"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":577.433,"endTime":581.933,"body":"company looking for applications forpatents from the university, yeah, to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":581.933,"endTime":583.523,"body":"bring them to real life applications."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":583.883,"endTime":588.653,"body":"And there was the idea to put this,nano structured, patented particle"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":588.703,"endTime":590.473,"body":"into a polymer to enhance a polymer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":590.558,"endTime":590.978,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":591.493,"endTime":595.933,"body":"Christina: And the result was, yeah,very sturdy, yet flexible, which is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":595.933,"endTime":601.043,"body":"necessary to perform good on a shiphull because, um, yeah, the ship hull is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":601.043,"endTime":606.233,"body":"moving, sometimes even three centimetersship steel is moving meters in a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":606.498,"endTime":607.278,"body":"Kevin: Oh, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":607.973,"endTime":611.513,"body":"Christina: they, they, they're reallyfunny dashboard, uh, camera videos"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":611.513,"endTime":615.128,"body":"on YouTube for ship and storm, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":617.195,"endTime":620.225,"body":"Um, so this combination,yeah, looked very interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":620.225,"endTime":624.905,"body":"And because of the proximity to theocean at Kiel, someone saw it and, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":624.905,"endTime":626.855,"body":"said, you need to test it on a vessel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":627.365,"endTime":633.485,"body":"And, uh, again, um, because ofserendipity, they were contacts to a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":633.515,"endTime":637.925,"body":"very innovative ship owner who saidlike, yeah, just come, I tell you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":637.925,"endTime":640.865,"body":"when I have the next docking and youcan just apply some test patches."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":641.285,"endTime":646.175,"body":"And five years later, uh, this,um, superintendent came back and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":646.355,"endTime":651.635,"body":"uh, told us, well, I saw these testpatches in docking and it's amazing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":651.635,"endTime":653.225,"body":"When can I buy the product?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":653.615,"endTime":659.935,"body":"And like shortly after I met this teamon a conference for marine tech, because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":660.655,"endTime":664.255,"body":"I'm by training, I'm a food scientist,I'm more an engineer than a chemist."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":664.823,"endTime":666.613,"body":"but I was looking for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":666.924,"endTime":672.189,"body":"a job with more purpose, uh,than just creating nice food,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":673.809,"endTime":674.439,"body":"which was great."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":674.601,"endTime":678.881,"body":"Uh but yeah, I was searching formore meaning and ever since, I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":678.881,"endTime":682.811,"body":"had a big heart for the oceanand marine biology and stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":682.811,"endTime":687.041,"body":"And, uh, so I tried to somehowfind a way to change careers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":687.161,"endTime":690.461,"body":"So I was sneaking around on theseconferences and they told me for the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":690.461,"endTime":692.651,"body":"first time, uh, about this problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":692.651,"endTime":695.268,"body":"And I was like, flabergasted like, how?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":695.388,"endTime":698.328,"body":"Why don't we do we not know about this?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":698.388,"endTime":700.818,"body":"And what are we doingthere and why is it legal?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":701.208,"endTime":703.038,"body":"And then of course I was super relieved."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":703.038,"endTime":704.628,"body":"They have a great solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":704.628,"endTime":706.038,"body":"And then it was, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":706.578,"endTime":708.978,"body":"But research projects are, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":709.698,"endTime":714.378,"body":"Ending now, and then there is no moremoney and, uh, we don't really dare."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":714.378,"endTime":717.038,"body":"And so yeah, it will end up in the drawer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":717.258,"endTime":720.198,"body":"And uh, I think one weeklater was the first lockdown."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":720.648,"endTime":721.698,"body":"And so with these thoughts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":722.358,"endTime":725.298,"body":"I was send it to the firstlockdown and I couldn't rest,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":725.658,"endTime":727.038,"body":"and I was completely hooked."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":727.038,"endTime":730.103,"body":"I was like, you cannot letthis end just like this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":730.56,"endTime":734.1,"body":"And so we stayed in contact andthen in summer you could meet again."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":734.1,"endTime":739.59,"body":"So we met a couple of times andum, then in autumn, the second"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":739.59,"endTime":743.38,"body":"lockdown hit, and, uh, suddenlyeverything was possible remote."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":744.3,"endTime":747.82,"body":"Uh, because I was in Berlin, myco-founder was in Kiel or close to Kiel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":747.84,"endTime":752.18,"body":"And nevertheless, we started in our firstaccelerator because of what should we do?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":752.18,"endTime":754.67,"body":"It's lockdown and whatcould possibly go wrong?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":754.67,"endTime":754.94,"body":"What could"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":755.25,"endTime":759.095,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, it's a veryproductive way to spend this time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":760.865,"endTime":764.555,"body":"Christina: And then everyone was,uh, like from the very first pitch,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":764.615,"endTime":768.635,"body":"everyone had the same reactionthat I had, uh, on the conference."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":768.635,"endTime":771.785,"body":"And, um, we had great support from, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":771.785,"endTime":773.435,"body":"From our very first pitch."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":773.963,"endTime":775.493,"body":"Uh, and then there was no way back"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":775.493,"endTime":775.853,"body":"anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":776.888,"endTime":777.128,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":777.128,"endTime":782.656,"body":"I mean this also what you just told me isreally mind blowing that  we are putting"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":782.656,"endTime":788.76,"body":"so much poison and microplastics in theoceans, and that seems to be the status"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":788.76,"endTime":793.71,"body":"quo, that there's not really that muchchallenge and gives huge opportunities for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":794.3,"endTime":794.59,"body":"Christina: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":795.21,"endTime":800.475,"body":"And it's even, uh, it's even worsebecause, um, I mean, uh, we chose"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":800.475,"endTime":803.295,"body":"these coatings because they're themost toxic and because there is this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":803.295,"endTime":806.375,"body":"product, and there were the tests andthere was this interest from the client."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":806.765,"endTime":808.385,"body":"Uh, but overall paint is plastic."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":808.385,"endTime":813.695,"body":"And, uh, actually the recent studiesfrom the EU, uh, now as well verified,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":813.695,"endTime":817.835,"body":"like the, the most plastic in the oceancomes from microplastic, from paints."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":818.165,"endTime":821.375,"body":"Not all the other, like, I thinkwe have sources in mind like, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":821.705,"endTime":825.485,"body":"clothing, um, and tires or stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":825.575,"endTime":829.115,"body":"But actually the most microplasticin the ocean comes from paint and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":829.115,"endTime":831.965,"body":"it's facet paints and road markings."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":832.235,"endTime":832.835,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":833.225,"endTime":833.705,"body":"Kevin: markings."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":833.705,"endTime":834.095,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":834.185,"endTime":834.725,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":835.355,"endTime":839.915,"body":"Christina: And, and ship coatings is only3%, but like, well, the most toxic one."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":839.965,"endTime":844.495,"body":"But yeah thinking of the empire Iwant to create, uh, then we definitely"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":844.495,"endTime":846.595,"body":"tackle, uh, all the other pains as"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":846.745,"endTime":847.165,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":847.567,"endTime":850.957,"body":"Christina: that's at least, uh,that would be like the dream vision."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":851.698,"endTime":856.189,"body":"Kevin: so we actually also startedwith this bio fouling as the goal of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":856.189,"endTime":861.469,"body":"this coating because this, uh, supersmooth surface, as you mentioned, is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":861.469,"endTime":867.769,"body":"also saving fuel by reducing drag asthis and just a positive side effect."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":868.381,"endTime":871.441,"body":"Christina: And it's a necessary sideeffect because with sustainability,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":871.441,"endTime":876.691,"body":"uh, we couldn't convince any, uh, shipowner, uh, without the fuel savings."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":876.691,"endTime":880.081,"body":"We wouldn't have, uh, reallygood selling arguments."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":880.156,"endTime":880.786,"body":"Kevin: Oh, okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":880.816,"endTime":882.822,"body":"So saving the planet is not enough."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":883.279,"endTime":887.391,"body":"Christina: No, saving an ocean isdefinitely not, not a topic for, for,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":890.786,"endTime":896.206,"body":"and I think for any, uh, for any, uh,climate, or impact startup, it's not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":896.206,"endTime":898.396,"body":"really like a good selling argument."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":898.396,"endTime":899.146,"body":"So you need."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":899.656,"endTime":901.666,"body":"To solve a real problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":902.026,"endTime":907.846,"body":"And luckily, um, the most poisonoustoxins are forbidden since 2003."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":907.846,"endTime":912.147,"body":"That's TBT tree Ty, ty butyl, tin Tree."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":912.677,"endTime":913.727,"body":"Kevin: Some tin component."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":913.947,"endTime":914.157,"body":"Christina: word."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":916.107,"endTime":919.91,"body":"Um, because this was reallydevastating for the ecosystems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":919.91,"endTime":923.225,"body":"It's like, because it had ahormonal effect and making,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":923.285,"endTime":925.145,"body":"uh, lots of muscles unisex."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":925.145,"endTime":929.285,"body":"So they were all female andcouldn't, um, propagate anymore."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":930.005,"endTime":933.725,"body":"And, um, so this lucky day isforbidden already since 2003."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":933.785,"endTime":939.065,"body":"And as you can calculate now, this isthree to four docking cycles 20 years now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":939.665,"endTime":944.465,"body":"And just now the ship owners realized,uh, we do have a problem because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":944.465,"endTime":948.605,"body":"now they're largely using copperand copper in this huge amounts."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":948.635,"endTime":949.835,"body":"As, as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":950.285,"endTime":952.175,"body":"Extremely harmful for ecosystems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":952.175,"endTime":955.775,"body":"So they get banned as well, moreand more, especially in the Baltics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":955.805,"endTime":961.655,"body":"Um, uh, but as well in Brazil, uh,Australia, New Zealand, Netherlands."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":961.715,"endTime":967.255,"body":"Um, so more and more biozides, um,become restricted, and the less and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":967.285,"endTime":968.845,"body":"less work, the current solutions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":968.875,"endTime":973.269,"body":"And so there is really a need inthe industry and when you then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":973.359,"endTime":977.019,"body":"even perform better, uh, thanwhat they do have currently,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":977.799,"endTime":979.929,"body":"then you get a foot in the door."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":980.319,"endTime":984.039,"body":"But not just with, uh, look,this is better for the ocean."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":984.309,"endTime":984.549,"body":"Try"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":984.764,"endTime":986.094,"body":"Kevin: yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":986.169,"endTime":993.279,"body":"I mean that you already can savehalf of the docking cycles is a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":993.279,"endTime":997.719,"body":"big thing, but when you then alsodecrease the fuel consumption, then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":998.469,"endTime":1001.496,"body":"yeah, it's a even bigger advantage."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1001.832,"endTime":1007.59,"body":"you already mentioned that it's ananostructure and, uh, can you tell"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1007.59,"endTime":1012.27,"body":"me a bit more about how this, um,painting works or this coating."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1012.656,"endTime":1015.104,"body":"Christina: yeah, so it is acombination of this, uh, nano"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1015.104,"endTime":1016.994,"body":"structured particle and a polymer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1017.094,"endTime":1021.864,"body":"And this is, uh, combining theadvantages of ceramic, like yeah, of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1021.864,"endTime":1025.984,"body":"ceramic particles and the flexibilityof the polymers, which makes, uh, for"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1025.984,"endTime":1031.454,"body":"these really nice features being thissturdy and hard, but yet flexible and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1031.454,"endTime":1035.504,"body":"as well, uh, what I mentioned as wellalready, um, being a hundred percent"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1035.504,"endTime":1041.134,"body":"full solid system so that we don't haveany solvents that need to evaporate."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1041.504,"endTime":1045.609,"body":"And, generating like this reallyclose, smooth surface and this, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1045.819,"endTime":1047.769,"body":"superior, um, surface roughness."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1047.954,"endTime":1048.374,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1049.114,"endTime":1052.214,"body":"So a combination of several materials."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1052.81,"endTime":1054.68,"body":"Christina: Yeah, that'sa compound material."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1055.121,"endTime":1062.208,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, so a combination of, um, twomaterials like the, ceramic and, a polymer"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1062.208,"endTime":1068.078,"body":"that keeps the ceramic in place andtogether they form a very smooth surface."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1068.541,"endTime":1069.681,"body":"but this polymer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1070.071,"endTime":1074.541,"body":"I mean, you already mentioned that theother polymers, they're meant to degrade,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1074.541,"endTime":1080.121,"body":"but you use a very durable polymer that'sjust not affected by these water, salt"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1080.121,"endTime":1086.331,"body":"water conditions, especially, which Iimagine is also corrosive in some way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1087.294,"endTime":1088.044,"body":"Christina: Eh, of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1088.044,"endTime":1089.184,"body":"Salt water is corrosive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1089.254,"endTime":1093.474,"body":"And yes, of course, uh, thesecoatings, at the same time provide"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1093.474,"endTime":1095.803,"body":"the corrosion protection forthe vessel for the ship hull."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1095.897,"endTime":1096.437,"body":"and it is."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1097.073,"endTime":1100.313,"body":"What I would say coming, like withmy cradle to cradle background,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1100.313,"endTime":1101.603,"body":"it is a last bad solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1101.603,"endTime":1105.983,"body":"It is not the perfect solution yet becausethis is still fossil based currently."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1106.343,"endTime":1109.883,"body":"Uh, we aim in the nextgeneration, uh, to be bio-based"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1110.213,"endTime":1113.453,"body":"and ideally, um, biodegradable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1114.353,"endTime":1117.413,"body":"Yes, uh, I think as you know,a big difference between"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1117.413,"endTime":1118.973,"body":"biobased and biodegradable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1119.363,"endTime":1125.066,"body":"Um, but, um, John Warner, uh, Pope ofGreen Chemistry is very convinced, that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1125.066,"endTime":1128.876,"body":"it's possible because I mean, beingdurable for five plus years underwater"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1128.876,"endTime":1132.241,"body":"and then suddenly biodegradable,I find it still very challenging."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1132.831,"endTime":1136.811,"body":"We definitely take it on because Ifind it irresponsible and crazy, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1136.871,"endTime":1143.351,"body":"nowadays, uh, to start a company beingdependent on fossil based material."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1143.851,"endTime":1145.111,"body":"But this will be a next step."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1145.111,"endTime":1149.935,"body":"So, uh, we need to prove, Ourbusiness case first with what we have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1149.935,"endTime":1155.175,"body":"now, and then as soon as possible,we will further develop this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1155.175,"endTime":1161.875,"body":"But, um, yeah, I mean in between, my foodscience career and my startup career, I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1161.875,"endTime":1166.345,"body":"was, uh, at the trade to cradle, NGO don'tknow if you've heard about that principle,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1166.765,"endTime":1169.105,"body":"um, or if I should explain that briefly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1169.625,"endTime":1169.825,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1169.825,"endTime":1170.465,"body":"Maybe for those"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1170.56,"endTime":1170.78,"body":"Christina: uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1170.945,"endTime":1171.065,"body":"Kevin: know."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1172.315,"endTime":1177.085,"body":"Christina: Well, it is a design principlewhere, um, if you can't avoid that,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1177.085,"endTime":1180.745,"body":"the material is going back into nature,then it needs to be biodegradable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1180.955,"endTime":1183.985,"body":"If you can keep it in atechnical cycle then it should"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1183.985,"endTime":1186.325,"body":"be, um, yeah, fully recyclable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1187.225,"endTime":1191.505,"body":"And it's a design principle, very closeto biomimicry as well, where like, look"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1191.505,"endTime":1193.155,"body":"into nature, you don't have waste, right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1194.235,"endTime":1194.955,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1195.285,"endTime":1196.785,"body":"nature does not produce waste."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1196.785,"endTime":1198.735,"body":"Then why are we humans producing waste?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1198.74,"endTime":1202.395,"body":"Um, and why don't we, um,look how nature is doing it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1202.965,"endTime":1206.655,"body":"So we do don't harm ourlife support system, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1206.655,"endTime":1209.445,"body":"So, and especially the oceanis our life support system."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1210.022,"endTime":1213.442,"body":"so this is definitely at the rootcore of, of our company and, and what"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1213.442,"endTime":1218.332,"body":"we aim to design in the future aswell with the other paints that might"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1218.332,"endTime":1221.842,"body":"end up in the ocean, because thisis, I mean, uh, road markings facade"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1222.112,"endTime":1223.372,"body":"paintings, they are land, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1223.552,"endTime":1224.962,"body":"Um, but you cannot avoid that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1224.962,"endTime":1227.962,"body":"They end up in the ocean, so thereforethey need to be biodegradable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1228.292,"endTime":1232.852,"body":"Um, and this is the whole principleand, um, this is where we wanna go"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1233.212,"endTime":1234.952,"body":"prospectively with our coaching as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1234.952,"endTime":1235.102,"body":"But"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1235.282,"endTime":1238.072,"body":"yeah, right now it's, it's less bad."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1238.942,"endTime":1242.005,"body":"So it's a, it's like the, transition"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1242.385,"endTime":1242.805,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1244.21,"endTime":1244.51,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1244.51,"endTime":1245.14,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1245.53,"endTime":1250.411,"body":"In, in this case, when youhave, a bio-based, that's, I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1250.411,"endTime":1252.331,"body":"don't see a problem with this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1252.331,"endTime":1257.881,"body":"Like there are more and more bio-based,polymers coming up, or even with"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1257.881,"endTime":1263.772,"body":"technologies where you can start with,Bio waste or even CO2 and then create"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1263.892,"endTime":1268.572,"body":"more or less all the chemicals that we arehaving in our chemical industry right now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1269.022,"endTime":1274.932,"body":"But then, uh, they're not necessarilybiodegradable, but with the coating such"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1274.932,"endTime":1279.072,"body":"as yours, I imagine that biodegradable,especially in the ocean where a lot of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1279.612,"endTime":1287.802,"body":"microorganisms are around biodegradable,would then lead to a lower, time in use."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1288.256,"endTime":1288.526,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1288.526,"endTime":1293.926,"body":"Or like, this is for me, a bitof a, um, like working against"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1293.926,"endTime":1299.116,"body":"each other, being biodegradable,degradable, and very durable."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1299.883,"endTime":1303.333,"body":"Christina: That's what I said as well,but as I said, our like, uh, well,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1303.333,"endTime":1308.283,"body":"the Pope of Brain Chemistry said it isdoable, and so we will aim for this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1308.283,"endTime":1312.723,"body":"I, I, well, um, I, let's talkabout this probably in a couple"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1312.723,"endTime":1314.373,"body":"of years, and I can tell you more."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1315.273,"endTime":1319.893,"body":"Um, I think the, the bigger problemis, uh, bio-based, um, bulkchemicals"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1320.523,"endTime":1323.283,"body":"at the moment is that they, you don'thave them, you don't get them at"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1323.283,"endTime":1327.933,"body":"bulk currently yet, and that they'renot yet competitive in pricing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1328.013,"endTime":1330.746,"body":"There's still a way to go, butyeah, it's, it's definitely"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1330.746,"endTime":1331.226,"body":"possible."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1331.687,"endTime":1334.957,"body":"personally, I find it actuallyvery irritating that the chemical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1334.957,"endTime":1338.747,"body":"industry, where they, they havetwo main cost factors, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1338.747,"endTime":1342.197,"body":"The one is energy and the otheris, uh, having, like being"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1342.197,"endTime":1343.817,"body":"fossil based raw materials."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1344.732,"endTime":1348.572,"body":"And for the past 20 years, theydid not do anything about it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1348.782,"endTime":1353.612,"body":"The contrary, they're pushing, uh,lobbying, uh, Germany into dependency"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1353.612,"endTime":1359.582,"body":"on, on cheap oil from, from Russia,and they could be by now, they, they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1359.582,"endTime":1362.312,"body":"could produce their own energy already."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1362.822,"endTime":1365.792,"body":"They have such big buildings wherethey could put solar and stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1365.822,"endTime":1371.462,"body":"And if this are my two maincost factors in my company, I"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1371.462,"endTime":1372.782,"body":"would've changed that already."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1373.082,"endTime":1377.932,"body":"I would've put much more effort intobiobased materials and being, independent"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1377.932,"endTime":1380.902,"body":"from energy and producing my own energy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1381.502,"endTime":1382.102,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1382.327,"endTime":1382.567,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1383.122,"endTime":1385.942,"body":"Christina: and it's for free thewhole day with sun and wind and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1385.942,"endTime":1393.472,"body":"everything, but well, uh, I'm not,uh, in the executive team there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1394.192,"endTime":1395.422,"body":"And, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1396.067,"endTime":1399.607,"body":"But it's funny because sometimes we getasked, uh, why is the big, why are the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1399.607,"endTime":1401.797,"body":"big, uh, chemical players not moving?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1401.797,"endTime":1404.737,"body":"Uh, I don't, uh, usuallyask the wrong person."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1405.097,"endTime":1406.267,"body":"You need to ask them, not me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1406.537,"endTime":1407.107,"body":"I would do"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1407.642,"endTime":1407.932,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1408.817,"endTime":1412.807,"body":"I mean, there are also a lot of startupsthat trying to solve these problems and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1412.807,"endTime":1417.337,"body":"making more bio-based, also raw materials."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1417.937,"endTime":1419.917,"body":"But yeah, they need to scale first."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1421.282,"endTime":1425.422,"body":"Especially in this, uh, bulkchemicals and raw materials, it's,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1425.422,"endTime":1427.012,"body":"it's all very price sensitive."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1427.012,"endTime":1431.302,"body":"And then it's more difficult to Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1431.512,"endTime":1437.918,"body":"Compete with these giants that have such adeep pocket and such a deep, supply chain."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1438.508,"endTime":1439.108,"body":"Christina: But that's a thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1439.108,"endTime":1440.278,"body":"They have the deep pockets, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1441.328,"endTime":1446.278,"body":"So they could invest inthe future and in their fu."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1446.278,"endTime":1449.878,"body":"And we do see it now, like they areall very nervous about their future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1450.418,"endTime":1450.868,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1451.303,"endTime":1454.753,"body":"Where it's like, yeah, well it'slike, uh, you're driving with,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1454.813,"endTime":1459.159,"body":"uh, 200 kilometers against thetree and there's just one tree."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1459.429,"endTime":1461.259,"body":"It's can move around it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1461.769,"endTime":1462.219,"body":"Or maybe two"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1462.219,"endTime":1462.639,"body":"trees."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1463.569,"endTime":1468.939,"body":"Kevin: Oh, that's a great, uh,analogy to see this problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1468.939,"endTime":1470.379,"body":"There are ways around it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1470.71,"endTime":1471.31,"body":"Quick break."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1471.54,"endTime":1473.52,"body":"First of all, thank youso much for listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1473.786,"endTime":1478.555,"body":"I also like to listen topodcasts a lot in my free time."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1478.581,"endTime":1482.235,"body":"I notice that I'm sometimesmissing the podcast that I'm"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1482.235,"endTime":1485.558,"body":"waiting for in my suggestions, So."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1485.69,"endTime":1489.412,"body":"That is why I created anewsletter for this podcast."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1489.412,"endTime":1494.774,"body":"So if you also would like to get an emailwhen there's a new episode of Innovate and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1494.774,"endTime":1497.487,"body":"React, then subscribe to my newsletter."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1497.487,"endTime":1502.95,"body":"All the information to that you can findon innovateand react.com\/newsletter."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1503.172,"endTime":1506.197,"body":"Also don't forget to followon wherever you're listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1506.197,"endTime":1510.577,"body":"This really helps the show and helpsme to get new guests on to continue."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1511.087,"endTime":1511.632,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1512.12,"endTime":1512.84,"body":"Now, back to the."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1513.897,"endTime":1519.777,"body":"Coming back to your coating andyour solution is technically,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1519.777,"endTime":1524.247,"body":"I'm asking myself, why isthis not everyone using this?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1524.247,"endTime":1529.017,"body":"Because it seems like a no brainerto have a lower fuel consumption"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1529.047,"endTime":1533.367,"body":"and even lower docking times."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1534.417,"endTime":1534.777,"body":"So what?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1534.837,"endTime":1537.057,"body":"What are the problems that you're facing?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1537.632,"endTime":1539.777,"body":"Christina: Um, the,oh, it's not a problem."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1539.777,"endTime":1540.047,"body":"It's a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1540.047,"endTime":1540.617,"body":"challenge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1541.457,"endTime":1541.727,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1542.987,"endTime":1543.407,"body":"That's,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1543.647,"endTime":1545.147,"body":"Christina: we only see challenges."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1545.147,"endTime":1546.767,"body":"We don't have problems, of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1547.805,"endTime":1551.81,"body":"uh, the challenge is to find the onesthat go first because their biggest"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1551.81,"endTime":1556.25,"body":"fear, like since we're, um, a smallplayer we don't have many references."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1556.25,"endTime":1558.86,"body":"So the biggest fear is thatthe coating will fall off."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1558.86,"endTime":1563.87,"body":"They have an unplanned docking, theylose a charter party, uh, and it might"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1563.87,"endTime":1567.2,"body":"be a damage of a couple of millions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1568.52,"endTime":1573.751,"body":"And so, uh, we are currently working ona solution how we can, insure that risk."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1574.681,"endTime":1579.721,"body":"Um, so to take this last hurdleto, to get to the first customers,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1579.721,"endTime":1583.591,"body":"uh, coating full vessels with us,because more or less everyone, be it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1583.591,"endTime":1588.121,"body":"investors, our customers, they wannasee three big vessels moving around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1588.121,"endTime":1591.511,"body":"Uh, and ideally of course withthree years of superb data."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1591.871,"endTime":1595.261,"body":"Um, and as you can see this, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1595.666,"endTime":1602.686,"body":"Uh, this is hard to finance and, um,yeah, we are in a really good way."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1602.716,"endTime":1606.616,"body":"Um, we do have smaller vessels goingaround with really good results."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1607.036,"endTime":1609.136,"body":"Uh, we are assigningallies for bigger vessels."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1609.196,"endTime":1613.456,"body":"Um, we're, um, very optimistic bythe end of the year to have the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1613.456,"endTime":1618.106,"body":"first big vessels going around andbake means like a hundred meter"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1618.201,"endTime":1618.621,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1619.411,"endTime":1619.701,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1620.373,"endTime":1626.853,"body":"And they're probably also not that muchcomparable to like a small 15 meter ship"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1626.853,"endTime":1632.875,"body":"or something, because I imagine that forthose it would be not super expensive to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1633.805,"endTime":1637.555,"body":"change this coating, and maybe they'renot really, because they're not these,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1637.555,"endTime":1643.393,"body":"um, fried ships, they're not reallydependent on, on this, coating that much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1643.94,"endTime":1645.71,"body":"So testing with those."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1646.107,"endTime":1651.027,"body":"Christina: They all depend of course,on a working vessel, if that's what"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1651.627,"endTime":1652.917,"body":"where you make your money with."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1653.397,"endTime":1657.047,"body":"Um, I mean, so one of our customersis, is ferry unlike Konstanz."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1657.387,"endTime":1663.357,"body":"So if you wanna see our coating in action,you can take Ferdinat the catamaran, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1663.417,"endTime":1666.017,"body":"going from Friedrichshafen to konstanz."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1666.891,"endTime":1671.931,"body":"of course he does not want, uh,the, he is as well dependent"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1671.931,"endTime":1673.221,"body":"that this vessel is going right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1673.791,"endTime":1676.461,"body":"Um, so he can make his his business."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1676.461,"endTime":1682.821,"body":"Um, but of course it is a lowerrisk than just in terms of numbers,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1683.151,"endTime":1687.551,"body":"than, for a big, ocean going cargovessel or something like that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1688.456,"endTime":1692.716,"body":"But still, uh, even though this isa sweet water and it's a smaller"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1692.716,"endTime":1697.816,"body":"vessel, um, we still see that theseresults help as well for bigger"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1697.816,"endTime":1699.586,"body":"customers to make their decision."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1699.941,"endTime":1704.141,"body":"Yeah, getting there, it's just, uh,well, I mean, it is a very conservative"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1704.141,"endTime":1707.801,"body":"industry and, uh, you have very longsales cycles as well as the docking side."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1707.801,"endTime":1710.921,"body":"I mean, it's five years and,you know, five years in advance"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1711.131,"endTime":1712.391,"body":"when the next docking will be."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1712.571,"endTime":1718.971,"body":"So even if you have or find someonewho's super interested and will do, this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1718.971,"endTime":1724.491,"body":"with you, but it is probably a smallership owner, then he might just have the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1724.491,"endTime":1727.081,"body":"next docking in two years, for example."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1727.471,"endTime":1730.321,"body":"I mean we are already as well,we do have customers, but the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1730.321,"endTime":1731.731,"body":"next docking is only in 27."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1732.481,"endTime":1736.711,"body":"And this is of course, uh, nothingthat fits into the typical investment"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1736.711,"endTime":1738.541,"body":"cycles of, uh, venture capital."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1738.556,"endTime":1739.096,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1739.936,"endTime":1745.096,"body":"So it's not that every day you canapply the coating on every ship because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1745.096,"endTime":1747.886,"body":"they just go every five years into"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1747.976,"endTime":1748.426,"body":"docking."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1748.431,"endTime":1748.441,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1749.006,"endTime":1749.186,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1749.186,"endTime":1755.096,"body":"When you, um, have the coating on theship, um, you mentioned that, um, some"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1755.756,"endTime":1760.466,"body":"part of, uh, the cleaning process isbasically happening through driving"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1760.766,"endTime":1764.816,"body":"or through going through the waterand they, it washes off basically."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1765.126,"endTime":1768.366,"body":"The fouling basically from, fromthe surface by just going through"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1768.366,"endTime":1773.316,"body":"the water and, uh, other creatureslike barnacles, they're a bit more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1773.316,"endTime":1775.536,"body":"sturdy and, uh, a bit more attached."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1775.566,"endTime":1778.482,"body":"But you said you can stillclean them more easily?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1779.049,"endTime":1781.259,"body":"Christina: Yes, yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1781.259,"endTime":1786.749,"body":"Um, so this, uh, staying cleanwhile driving, this is like this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1786.959,"endTime":1788.549,"body":"so-called foul release effect."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1788.666,"endTime":1792.921,"body":"and I think it's rather in effectthat, with such a smooth surface and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1792.921,"endTime":1798.051,"body":"then such a strong current, it is justnot a pleasant environment to settle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1798.396,"endTime":1798.686,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1799.266,"endTime":1804.066,"body":"Christina: So this is, it stays cleanand as to some degree soft fouling."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1804.436,"endTime":1805.756,"body":"Let's start out the other way around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1805.756,"endTime":1812.636,"body":"As soon as a surface is submerged inthe water, bio film will start to form."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1813.346,"endTime":1817.156,"body":"And depending on the temperatureand the growth season, uh, this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1817.156,"endTime":1820.816,"body":"can be within seconds that youhave the first initial biofilm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1821.626,"endTime":1824.446,"body":"And this is, of course, thisis like biofilm is super soft."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1824.806,"endTime":1829.106,"body":"Um, so with a file release effect, youcan clean this off as well and already"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1829.106,"endTime":1834.116,"body":"after a couple of hours, uh, to twodays, uh, you already have so-called"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1834.116,"endTime":1840.909,"body":"soft fouling, or micro fouling, uh,which are rather, yeah, soft, creatures."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1841.479,"endTime":1844.886,"body":"Either like a beard, algae,and well, soft stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1845.246,"endTime":1850.646,"body":"And then, uh, within a couple of daysto a week, you can already, you, you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1850.646,"endTime":1855.686,"body":"already have, uh, macro fouling andheart fouling and this is, uh, barnacles"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1855.686,"endTime":1860.246,"body":"muscles, but as well like tube worms,other stuff that is, uh, building"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1860.246,"endTime":1863.166,"body":"like, uh, more chalk like, structure."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1864.012,"endTime":1868.002,"body":"And uh, once you have macrofoing, you cannot wash it off"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1868.392,"endTime":1869.712,"body":"anymore with a foul-release effect"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1869.777,"endTime":1870.197,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1871.062,"endTime":1872.742,"body":"Because they are then too strongly"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1872.802,"endTime":1873.852,"body":"Christina: And then you need cleaning."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1874.242,"endTime":1874.542,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1874.752,"endTime":1876.102,"body":"They are too strongly attached."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1876.297,"endTime":1876.717,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1877.512,"endTime":1879.462,"body":"Christina: And this typicallyhappens in idle times."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1879.462,"endTime":1884.352,"body":"It's either, I don't know, like, uh, thecase of ever, ever given was it right"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1884.352,"endTime":1888.702,"body":"during, uh, COVID, uh, when they're, fortwo weeks, they were all stuck between"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1889.632,"endTime":1892.037,"body":"because of this one, uh, ultra max."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1893.257,"endTime":1895.837,"body":"Then you sit there for twoweeks in tropical waters."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1896.388,"endTime":1899.538,"body":"Every vessel has bio fil after twoweeks in tropical water standing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1899.538,"endTime":1899.958,"body":"around."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1900.948,"endTime":1906.018,"body":"Um, no matter how toxic thecoating and, um, this can happen."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1907.248,"endTime":1910.628,"body":"And then typically, uh, what theydo is, uh, yeah, they get diving"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1910.628,"endTime":1915.728,"body":"companies or, or other, uh, roboticsolutions to clean the vessel then,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1916.598,"endTime":1920.218,"body":"because otherwise yeah, it's this waytoo expensive to move that vessel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1920.383,"endTime":1924.163,"body":"Kevin: And basically just manuallyscraping off whatever is attached."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1924.653,"endTime":1924.943,"body":"Christina: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1925.753,"endTime":1930.613,"body":"Kevin: And with the current, uh,solutions where they're rely more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1930.613,"endTime":1933.553,"body":"on biocides, it's still Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1933.613,"endTime":1934.813,"body":"Attached to this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1934.813,"endTime":1938.293,"body":"And you, because it's made to come off."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1939.013,"endTime":1941.168,"body":"The coating comes off with them?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1941.679,"endTime":1942.099,"body":"Christina: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1942.249,"endTime":1950.329,"body":"Um, even there was a test from thegerman government agency for water"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1950.389,"endTime":1953.429,"body":"like hydrography and shipping."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1953.669,"endTime":1955.229,"body":"So it's, uh, in, in German."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1955.229,"endTime":1958.619,"body":"It is, um, BSH, um, Bundesamt f\u00fcrSeeschifffahrt und Hydrographie."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1958.619,"endTime":1959.279,"body":"Um, for,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1961.039,"endTime":1961.459,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1962.609,"endTime":1967.409,"body":"Christina: um, they did a study, uh,where they even, they cleaned very,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1967.409,"endTime":1969.659,"body":"very soft, it was not even a brush."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1969.779,"endTime":1973.649,"body":"It was like where you scraperswhile you shower with, to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1974.249,"endTime":1976.169,"body":"avoid stains from water drops."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1976.589,"endTime":1981.839,"body":"Um, these, uh, rubber, theserubbery things, soft rubber,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1982.426,"endTime":1984.526,"body":"they cleaned off soft fouling."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1985.396,"endTime":1991.846,"body":"Um, and it is four kilogramsfor SPCs for a vessel of."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1992.356,"endTime":1993.856,"body":"150 meters or"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1993.856,"endTime":1994.276,"body":"something."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1994.321,"endTime":1995.281,"body":"Kevin: four kilogram of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1995.356,"endTime":1998.356,"body":"Christina: So each cleaningyou take off four kilogram of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":1998.356,"endTime":2000.396,"body":"coating with just a, a soft"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2000.396,"endTime":2004.926,"body":"rubber, um, something to, tobrush over there slightly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2005.646,"endTime":2010.236,"body":"Um, so it will be even more when youhave to clean hard, uh, fouling from"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2010.236,"endTime":2015.306,"body":"such a vessel and what is, uh, even moreinteresting is when once, and this is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2015.306,"endTime":2020.136,"body":"why the ship owners typically avoid aslong as possible to clean an SPC is once"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2020.136,"endTime":2022.446,"body":"you clean an SPC, the surface is even"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2022.446,"endTime":2022.866,"body":"rougher."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2023.496,"endTime":2027.786,"body":"Um, you remove coating, so youshorten the lifetime of the SPC, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2027.786,"endTime":2031.686,"body":"surface is rougher, and afterwardsit will regrow even faster."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2031.806,"endTime":2035.466,"body":"And then you need to clean morefrequently and this is why they avoid it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2035.466,"endTime":2039.066,"body":"And another thing is, and then we cometo the regularly point and where we"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2039.066,"endTime":2043.026,"body":"not just have a product for the market,but we need a full system changes"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2043.236,"endTime":2047.436,"body":"that because of the toxic coatings,cleaning is in most places forbidden."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2048.126,"endTime":2048.606,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2049.986,"endTime":2053.196,"body":"Because you, uh, wash off thetoxic coatings with the cleaning"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2053.526,"endTime":2055.146,"body":"and it is simply forbidden."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2055.146,"endTime":2059.796,"body":"And so the ship owners can only cleanin areas where, um, uh, environmental"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2059.796,"endTime":2062.796,"body":"regulations are not that strict,like Panama and other places."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2062.796,"endTime":2067.146,"body":"And then even really just like peoplewith just the snorkel and a mask"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2067.806,"endTime":2072.876,"body":"dive down there and do this manually,which is as well not good for these"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2072.876,"endTime":2075.306,"body":"divers to swim in these toxic coatings"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2075.351,"endTime":2075.831,"body":"Kevin: course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2075.846,"endTime":2076.386,"body":"Christina: cleaning."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2077.211,"endTime":2081.381,"body":"Kevin: So it's basically they, uh,just assume that all the coatings"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2081.381,"endTime":2084.831,"body":"are poisonous, and that's why it'sjust generally forbidden to clean"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2084.831,"endTime":2087.081,"body":"these ships, even if they would"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2087.086,"endTime":2087.296,"body":"have."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2088.266,"endTime":2089.946,"body":"Poison is free coating like yours?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2090.996,"endTime":2091.446,"body":"Christina: yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2091.626,"endTime":2095.121,"body":"And I mean, 90% of the coatingsused in the industry are still."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2095.781,"endTime":2096.261,"body":"Containing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2096.261,"endTime":2100.761,"body":"Biocides, uh, because 90% of thecustomers, they use these SBCs."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2100.821,"endTime":2103.851,"body":"And another solution is,uh, silicon coatings."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2104.481,"endTime":2108.531,"body":"Um, there are silicon coatings that areenhanced with biocides and there are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2108.531,"endTime":2110.331,"body":"silicon coatings that are biocide free."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2110.331,"endTime":2115.761,"body":"But, uh, overall it's, uh, it's siliconand so it's rather soft, so they're not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2115.761,"endTime":2117.771,"body":"that durable against mechanical damage."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2118.191,"endTime":2122.121,"body":"And, uh, as like the same with our,with shampoo and everything, these"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2122.121,"endTime":2124.101,"body":"silicons are microplastic to the ocean."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2124.101,"endTime":2124.161,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2125.966,"endTime":2126.256,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2126.456,"endTime":2131.496,"body":"Kevin: in my head, there would be likea, if you could put a stamp on the ship,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2131.496,"endTime":2138.426,"body":"basically having, so the people who haveto clean ships can easily see, okay, this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2138.426,"endTime":2144.231,"body":"is a. Biocide containing coating, or thisis not a biocide containing coating, then"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2144.711,"endTime":2148.371,"body":"Christina: Uh, I bring that to thenext meeting with these, uh, round"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2148.371,"endTime":2151.611,"body":"table biofouling where they'retalking about regulation because"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2151.611,"endTime":2153.231,"body":"so far there only guidelines."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2153.876,"endTime":2160.806,"body":"And, um, if you want to clean abiocide free coating, uh, currently,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2161.016,"endTime":2165.276,"body":"um, the ship only needs to bringthe proof and get an exception."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2165.996,"endTime":2170.886,"body":"And this is several steps that makingthis transition harder because this is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2170.976,"endTime":2176.166,"body":"like they are doing or they are makingor wanna make the better choice, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2176.166,"endTime":2181.836,"body":"they are like, punished with extrapaperwork and, um, permissions and stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2182.076,"endTime":2183.546,"body":"Or it should be the other way around,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2183.546,"endTime":2183.846,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2184.746,"endTime":2185.256,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2185.751,"endTime":2186.261,"body":"Kevin: So get a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2186.426,"endTime":2191.506,"body":"Christina: yeah, it's, uh, it's uh, whenI bring this topic up, it's, I'm like, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2191.506,"endTime":2193.666,"body":"most evil person in the room and it's big."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2193.666,"endTime":2195.646,"body":"Woo, you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2195.706,"endTime":2197.446,"body":"How can you make such a suggestion?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2197.446,"endTime":2200.776,"body":"It's like, because everyone's stillusing S PCs, you cannot turn around"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2200.776,"endTime":2202.121,"body":"and, uh, put all the other like."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2202.966,"endTime":2204.916,"body":"99% of the ship owners is there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2204.916,"endTime":2210.136,"body":"The problem to have to like, uh, to, toget permission for toxic coatings, it's"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2210.136,"endTime":2215.381,"body":"like, well, but that this, this is what weshould do and this is what would bring the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2215.581,"endTime":2215.881,"body":"Kevin: no."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2216.541,"endTime":2221.431,"body":"Yeah, that reminds me a bit of aproblem from the hydrogen world."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2221.431,"endTime":2227.251,"body":"Where I'm also, uh, working on thereis like when you use hydrogen as a fuel"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2227.371,"endTime":2234.961,"body":"with a fuel cell, it's uh, exempted forthese, um, taxes that you have to pay for."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2234.995,"endTime":2238.77,"body":"the emissions, it's exemptedfor the, uh, emission tax."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2239.16,"endTime":2243.99,"body":"But when you burn hydrogen in a hydrogenengine, you still have to pay those taxes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2243.99,"endTime":2246.06,"body":"Although there is no CO2 evolved."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2247.096,"endTime":2247.396,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2247.591,"endTime":2247.981,"body":"Christina: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2248.476,"endTime":2249.166,"body":"Kevin: similar."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2249.871,"endTime":2250.411,"body":"Weird"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2250.471,"endTime":2251.876,"body":"regulatory thing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2251.876,"endTime":2252.156,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2252.586,"endTime":2254.416,"body":"Christina: The lobby, forthe current solution is still"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2254.416,"endTime":2255.796,"body":"bigger, but we're getting there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2255.796,"endTime":2258.676,"body":"And it's funny because on theother side you have Australia and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2258.676,"endTime":2263.446,"body":"New Zealand and they have a newbiofouling management regulation that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2263.446,"endTime":2265.036,"body":"you need to clean before you enter"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2265.036,"endTime":2269.086,"body":"the harbor, but more because ofthe invasive species you bring"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2269.086,"endTime":2272.236,"body":"with a, uh, with a, uh, a, fouled."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2272.446,"endTime":2275.866,"body":"Um, hull there's, yeah, there's anotherdimension to this whole biofouling"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2275.866,"endTime":2281.356,"body":"problem, which is invasive species, um,destroying ecosystem with Yeah, bringing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2281.356,"endTime":2286.489,"body":"species to, to places where they havea competitive advantage about like over"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2286.494,"endTime":2292.609,"body":"the, the local, flora and fauna and,uh, just spread and kill other things."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2292.939,"endTime":2296.719,"body":"And New Zealand and Australiaare like, yeah, the strongest"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2296.719,"endTime":2298.399,"body":"to protect their ecosystems."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2298.649,"endTime":2300.629,"body":"But on the other, yeah, sothey have these regulations."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2300.629,"endTime":2302.099,"body":"Nobody has a cleanable coating."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2302.159,"endTime":2304.349,"body":"Uh, they don't have the cleaningsolution in place either."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2304.419,"endTime":2308.759,"body":"They don't have, uh, the resourcesto really, enforce this regulation."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2308.759,"endTime":2312.509,"body":"But the regulation is there at leastwell, so all the regulations moving"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2312.509,"endTime":2316.799,"body":"in the right direction, but it's stillvery flawed and it's not to a point that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2316.799,"endTime":2320.069,"body":"it's really igniting a big, huge change."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2320.429,"endTime":2325.17,"body":"And as well, there are automaticcleaning solutions on the horizon."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2325.17,"endTime":2328.05,"body":"So there are many, many startupsas well working on cleaning robots."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2328.41,"endTime":2331.35,"body":"And I'm, I'm completelyconvinced it will be the future."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2331.35,"endTime":2333.48,"body":"You will have a cleaningrobot on your vessel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2333.48,"endTime":2337.56,"body":"Like we have cleaning like vacuumrobots at home or more mowing robots."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2337.95,"endTime":2340.2,"body":"This is, it is going to come."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2340.59,"endTime":2344.7,"body":"And for this, you need a hard,durable, cleanable coating solution."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2344.7,"endTime":2349.8,"body":"And, and several big players inthe industry, um, confirmed as well"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2349.8,"endTime":2351.33,"body":"that this is where we are heading."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2351.36,"endTime":2353.22,"body":"But unfortunately it's not there yet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2353.73,"endTime":2356.94,"body":"And, um, unfortunately theshipping industry is rather slow."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2358.11,"endTime":2365.58,"body":"And, um, um, yeah, this lack of speed,of course is killing startups and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2365.58,"endTime":2370.65,"body":"innovation because, uh, as well, Imean uh, another question you have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2370.65,"endTime":2375.27,"body":"not raised yet is, and what probably,uh, because we typically get a lots of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2375.27,"endTime":2378.78,"body":"interest from private ship owners becausethey coat their vessels themselves."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2379.395,"endTime":2382.545,"body":"Know how disgustingthese toxic coatings are."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2382.905,"endTime":2385.125,"body":"Uh, and they typically love water as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2385.125,"endTime":2388.545,"body":"That's why they have a ship ora tiny sailing yard or whatever."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2389.325,"endTime":2394.485,"body":"We need to get to big volumes first to becompetitive with other, coating companies."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2394.545,"endTime":2400.205,"body":"And, uh, in, in the private sector,it is even stricter, regulated"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2400.205,"endTime":2404.045,"body":"for the ship owners, um, with,with cleaning and everything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2404.165,"endTime":2408.425,"body":"And unfortunately, private owners,uh, they stand around most of the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2409.025,"endTime":2412.445,"body":"year because they only make it acouple of weekends to the vessel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2413.068,"endTime":2416.128,"body":"And so they would definitely needthis cleaning solution as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2416.128,"endTime":2417.628,"body":"But the cleaning solutions are not there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2417.628,"endTime":2420.608,"body":"And in private marinas,it's much stricter, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2420.638,"endTime":2422.888,"body":"regulated and, uh, controlled."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2422.948,"endTime":2428.438,"body":"And, so this is, uh, as well, not,not a way we can go to, to first"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2428.558,"endTime":2430.863,"body":"enter via the leisure market."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2430.928,"endTime":2431.318,"body":"Kevin: Hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2431.828,"endTime":2435.158,"body":"Yeah, that was what I was thinkingabout with these super small ships,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2435.578,"endTime":2441.758,"body":"whether it's also one ship doesn'tneed that much of coating, so you would"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2441.758,"endTime":2447.638,"body":"have to sell to a lot of ship ownersto sell the same amount of coating"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2447.638,"endTime":2448.628,"body":"as for one giant container ship."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2448.678,"endTime":2448.968,"body":"Christina: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2449.754,"endTime":2450.044,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2450.059,"endTime":2455.909,"body":"So we definitely aim, uh, to installthese kind of hubs, so that we have"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2456.114,"endTime":2459.149,"body":"documents that can apply our coatingbecause as well, our coating cannot,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2459.209,"endTime":2462.629,"body":"it needs to be sprayed, so youcannot paint it by hand yourself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2463.019,"endTime":2465.869,"body":"Uh, so that we have dock yardsthat are capable of applying the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2465.869,"endTime":2469.419,"body":"coating and that we have cleaninghubs, so that we can all offer this."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2469.419,"endTime":2471.879,"body":"But this is not somethingthat we can pursue."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2472.299,"endTime":2474.909,"body":"Now, this, uh, we, we aim for 27 and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2474.909,"endTime":2475.449,"body":"onwards."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2476.019,"endTime":2480.429,"body":"Um, but yeah, there's, uh, lotsof interest from private owners."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2480.749,"endTime":2481.199,"body":"Kevin: offering a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2481.199,"endTime":2486.839,"body":"package deal where you can get the coatingand the cleaning and everything outta one"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2486.974,"endTime":2487.214,"body":"Christina: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2487.364,"endTime":2489.884,"body":"But it's, yeah, it's, it's notjust selling a product, right."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2489.884,"endTime":2492.374,"body":"It's, it's setting upa hub and as well, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2492.629,"endTime":2493.229,"body":"Kevin: The service."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2493.229,"endTime":2493.289,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2493.454,"endTime":2497.231,"body":"Christina: in these locations, uh, aswell, working together with the local"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2497.501,"endTime":2501.855,"body":"governments, it, so yeah, if it was easy,anyone else could do it, uh, and would've"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2501.855,"endTime":2508.955,"body":"done it because, yeah, this problem is,uh, really as old as humankind and um, in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2508.955,"endTime":2513.395,"body":"Europe alone, over the past two decades,there have been 50 research projects."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2513.875,"endTime":2519.935,"body":"And from this, I think four orfive startups, were generated."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2520.655,"endTime":2521.605,"body":"And, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2521.695,"endTime":2522.925,"body":"None of them made it so"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2522.94,"endTime":2524.26,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, it's a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2524.39,"endTime":2531.14,"body":"slow market and uh, also a very riskadverse, and then that, that makes it, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2531.17,"endTime":2534.95,"body":"for startups more difficult, I would say."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2534.955,"endTime":2538.605,"body":"But still, if you have a great solutionlike yours, then you have a chance."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2538.685,"endTime":2539.135,"body":"Christina: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2540.005,"endTime":2545.195,"body":"And the good thing is that, uh, finallyslowly digitalization, uh, is coming"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2545.195,"endTime":2546.485,"body":"to the shipping industry as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2546.485,"endTime":2548.795,"body":"So the shipping industry iseven slower than Germany."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2549.155,"endTime":2549.485,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2551.525,"endTime":2556.055,"body":"uh, I did not know that there was a spaceless digitalized than Germany, but the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2556.085,"endTime":2560.915,"body":"shipping industry is, and, uh, most ofthe ship owners, uh, did not know, um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2560.945,"endTime":2567.605,"body":"the full extent of the biofouling problembecause, um, there was as well just a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2567.605,"endTime":2574.775,"body":"study from 2018 only, uh, demonstratingthat the first initial 0.5 millimeters of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2574.775,"endTime":2579.665,"body":"slime, increased emissionsalready the first initial 25%."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2580.205,"endTime":2582.755,"body":"So they have, you have thehighest increase in emissions"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2582.755,"endTime":2584.045,"body":"was the first initial."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2584.96,"endTime":2588.17,"body":"They 0.5 millimeters ofslime, which is crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2588.44,"endTime":2593.78,"body":"And like when a ship owner seesslime or biofilm on the, it's,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2593.87,"endTime":2598.61,"body":"yeah, it's clean or any kind ofsoft fouling is, it's not severe."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2598.82,"endTime":2603.26,"body":"And uh, typically they all operate30% above the baseline what's the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2603.26,"endTime":2605.63,"body":"vessel should be able to operate on."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2606.14,"endTime":2611.66,"body":"And, um, I know that, uh, the mostinnovative shipping companies, they"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2611.66,"endTime":2616.43,"body":"started having a fleet performancemanager starting from 2017."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2616.79,"endTime":2618.23,"body":"This is not too long either."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2618.86,"endTime":2623.26,"body":"And, in, in a big shipping company,such a, a high performance manager"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2623.26,"endTime":2627.94,"body":"or fleet performance, uh, managercould save a company 30 million in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2627.94,"endTime":2633.37,"body":"the first year with just more frequentclean, and this is probably like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2633.37,"endTime":2635.35,"body":"every six months cleaning an SPC"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2635.95,"endTime":2637,"body":"uh, coated vessel."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2637.54,"endTime":2638.44,"body":"That's huge."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2638.65,"endTime":2639.79,"body":"And they are still."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2640.33,"endTime":2642.04,"body":"10, 15% above the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2642.04,"endTime":2647.937,"body":"baseline, but they only like, yeah, onlyknow that, uh, they are more digitized"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2647.937,"endTime":2652.257,"body":"and that they have more performancedata and that they can do see this and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2652.317,"endTime":2658.206,"body":"better evaluated, um, it is coming moreinto their mind and as well with, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2658.206,"endTime":2660.546,"body":"with CO2, uh, certificates of course."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2660.546,"endTime":2664.146,"body":"So they have much more pressure todecarbonize and, they realize more and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2664.146,"endTime":2671.406,"body":"more, how much, uh, you can alreadydo with, uh, really taking care of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2671.406,"endTime":2672.606,"body":"your hull performance management."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2673.347,"endTime":2679.292,"body":"And all these things like the regulatorychanges, um, the digitalization of the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2679.292,"endTime":2685.922,"body":"right, of the, of the robots, um, allthese, uh, is leading to the change."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2685.922,"endTime":2689.907,"body":"But yeah, this is alreadyongoing now, 20 years, so it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2690.542,"endTime":2693.932,"body":"Unfortunately it is a bit slowindustry, but it's getting there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2694.487,"endTime":2699.137,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, that's, uh, great tohear that they, although slow, but"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2699.137,"endTime":2704.807,"body":"they are moving and, uh, yeah, I thinkit's, uh, very brave of you and your"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2704.807,"endTime":2709.997,"body":"co-founder to start such a companyin such a challenging environment."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2710.297,"endTime":2713.299,"body":"Christina: Well, um, we didn'tknow that it is that challenging"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2713.299,"endTime":2715.759,"body":"because we were out of the box."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2715.759,"endTime":2717.679,"body":"We didn't know what we get ourself into."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2720.409,"endTime":2725.629,"body":"Um, I don't know if, uh, ifI would've been the same like"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2725.629,"endTime":2728.869,"body":"everyone else who kept telling us,yeah, you're not gonna make it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2728.869,"endTime":2729.799,"body":"It's insane."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2730.939,"endTime":2734.539,"body":"If I had more knowledge about the twoindustry, like chemistry is like the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2734.539,"endTime":2738.649,"body":"chemical industry is moving slow andthere's just these few big players and,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2739.189,"endTime":2742.069,"body":"um, and the shipping industry is the same."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2742.699,"endTime":2743.359,"body":"I think it was."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2745.129,"endTime":2750.409,"body":"Maybe a little bit of an advantage thatwe've been, um, out of the box and not"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2750.409,"endTime":2753.169,"body":"knowingly jumping into these challenges."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2753.784,"endTime":2753.964,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2753.994,"endTime":2757.774,"body":"But that sometimes help basically"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2757.969,"endTime":2761.299,"body":"Christina: You know, it, I thinkit's one of these, uh, this typical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2761.299,"endTime":2765.224,"body":"cases where it's like, oh, everythingeveryone said to you cannot do it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2765.289,"endTime":2768.139,"body":"And then there there was these two, theydid not know about it and just did it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2768.394,"endTime":2768.994,"body":"Kevin: Exactly."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2771.087,"endTime":2773.097,"body":"It's a different perspectivethat you bring that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2773.622,"endTime":2778.292,"body":"Those who are already in the market,maybe don't really have, and then you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2778.292,"endTime":2781.412,"body":"think of different challenges that Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2781.622,"endTime":2786.982,"body":"Can be with this new perspective,uh, solved in a innovative way, which"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2787.312,"endTime":2789.022,"body":"others thought would not be possible."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2789.295,"endTime":2790.21,"body":"Christina: Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2790.414,"endTime":2796.534,"body":"Kevin: And, um, from this, do you havemaybe some tips for other scientists who"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2796.954,"endTime":2802.834,"body":"would like to maybe not necessarily enterthe shipping market, but in general, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2802.894,"endTime":2806.134,"body":"bring their, uh, research to the market?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2806.638,"endTime":2812.338,"body":"Christina: I would, uh, definitely,uh, see, um, where at my university"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2812.338,"endTime":2814.238,"body":"I can find support for founding."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2814.328,"endTime":2816.218,"body":"'cause I, I hope so."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2816.218,"endTime":2821.258,"body":"At least by now, every universityshould have these kind of hubs, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2821.258,"endTime":2826.938,"body":"where they support, founding andentrepreneurship, and especially"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2826.938,"endTime":2829.008,"body":"for chemistry and green chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2829.068,"endTime":2833.868,"body":"Um, I recommend Berlin and the GreenChem community and, uh, the Chemical"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2833.868,"endTime":2836.378,"body":"Invention Factory, to get their support."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2836.408,"endTime":2839.468,"body":"Uh, they just now, theyopened their first innovate!"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2839.468,"endTime":2842.278,"body":"call, where I think it's."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2843.403,"endTime":2847.873,"body":"It's the best program you can findbecause it's completely equity free."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2847.873,"endTime":2849.973,"body":"It's completely philanthropically funded."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2850.353,"endTime":2855.243,"body":"And they have a really strong,um, accelerator program behind it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2855.513,"endTime":2860.902,"body":"And it's funny because, uh, I,I'm a little bit as well, giving"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2860.902,"endTime":2865.012,"body":"a birth to this program because,uh, we've been in founder institute"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2865.012,"endTime":2866.842,"body":"as our first accelerator program."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2867.092,"endTime":2869.462,"body":"And they give all the businesssupport in that program."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2869.462,"endTime":2874.802,"body":"And we've been in, in Q lab, uh, wherewe found very cheap laboratory space"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2874.802,"endTime":2879.762,"body":"and, uh, they joined forces now, toset up this really, really great, uh."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2880.377,"endTime":2884.307,"body":"Program where you get laboratoryspace, you get funding."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2884.377,"endTime":2888.547,"body":"They even help with visa andhousing, and you get all these, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2888.547,"endTime":2893.827,"body":"entrepreneurial business, um, inputwhat you need to have as a founder."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2894.247,"endTime":2897.817,"body":"And I'm, I'm super excited, uh,because I'm as well in the selection"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2897.817,"endTime":2899.224,"body":"committee for the first batch now."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2899.735,"endTime":2905.315,"body":"Um, super excited what they're buildingthere and who's coming and, um, yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2905.315,"endTime":2907.655,"body":"what will, what innovation the world will"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2907.795,"endTime":2908.215,"body":"Kevin: Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2908.9,"endTime":2909.05,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2909.05,"endTime":2912.83,"body":"When, uh, you, as the listener ofthis episode would like to know more"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2912.83,"endTime":2918.63,"body":"about this the greenCHEM, networkwas in one of the previous episodes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2918.63,"endTime":2920.97,"body":"So there's more information on that."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2921.6,"endTime":2923.835,"body":"So basically reach out to."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2924.6,"endTime":2928.53,"body":"These, uh, startup hubs at theuniversities, and that's where you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2928.53,"endTime":2933.27,"body":"find people who can support in Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2933.81,"endTime":2935.88,"body":"Tell you what to doand what to start with."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2935.88,"endTime":2941.07,"body":"Because for me, as a chemistry student,when I started, that was not really part"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2941.07,"endTime":2946.68,"body":"of the, uh, curriculum and there wasnot that much about startups at all."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2946.68,"endTime":2952.65,"body":"So yeah, that's a good way of gettingto know the people and, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2953.49,"endTime":2954.18,"body":"A network."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2954.225,"endTime":2956.955,"body":"Christina: Yeah, and it is soimportant that we make more use of"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2956.955,"endTime":2960.52,"body":"all the patents that we generatein our universities and, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2962.13,"endTime":2962.4,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2962.61,"endTime":2965.49,"body":"And it, it is a shame thatso much ended up in a drawer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2965.49,"endTime":2967.29,"body":"So really, if you havea good idea, go there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2967.65,"endTime":2970.08,"body":"You don't even need to be suchentrepreneur because there are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2970.08,"endTime":2973.14,"body":"other people looking for thegreat ideas, but that who are"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2973.14,"endTime":2975.6,"body":"really driven entrepreneurial."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2975.61,"endTime":2980.68,"body":"And, um, it's always good to find aco-founder with this business perspective"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2981.13,"endTime":2983.74,"body":"and not just be a fully scientific team."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2984.4,"endTime":2986.975,"body":"So yeah, it was not mydream to become a founder."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2987.035,"endTime":2992.495,"body":"It was really, um, and I think twoyears before Clean Ocean Coatings, I was"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2992.495,"endTime":2998.025,"body":"still, I don't really don't want to beself-employed or somehow entrepreneur."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2998.475,"endTime":2999.735,"body":"I don't dare and stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":2999.765,"endTime":3005.205,"body":"And, um, these programs can really helpbecause uh, once you realize that you"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3005.205,"endTime":3009.945,"body":"might have, uh, rocket science innovationin your lab, but all these entrepreneurial"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3009.945,"endTime":3014.355,"body":"stuff, typically you deal with challengessomeone else solved before already."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3014.595,"endTime":3016.245,"body":"And you can just ask."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3016.245,"endTime":3018.405,"body":"And typically you get help out there."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3018.705,"endTime":3023.925,"body":"And this is, even though it mightbe very, uh, alien to you right now"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3024.225,"endTime":3027.825,"body":"uh, as a brilliant scientist, mineis nothing you can't learn there"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3028.215,"endTime":3033.195,"body":"and, and get support with and, andyeah, the stuff around it, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3033.855,"endTime":3038.985,"body":"Uh, entrepreneurship, you can definitelylearn as well or find other people"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3038.985,"endTime":3041.625,"body":"who like them more and join forces."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3041.955,"endTime":3042.525,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3042.525,"endTime":3048.965,"body":"I think that's very important that thisfounding a startup is not a one main show."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3049.235,"endTime":3055.195,"body":"You have to cooperate and you canalso, as a scientist it might be"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3055.195,"endTime":3060.085,"body":"a bit, uh, frightening to get inthis entrepreneurial world and also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3060.085,"endTime":3062.125,"body":"regulations and all this kind of stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3062.125,"endTime":3067.615,"body":"And then it's best to partner withother bright minds and then you can"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3067.615,"endTime":3069.955,"body":"really move something like you did."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3070.355,"endTime":3070.575,"body":"Christina: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3070.95,"endTime":3073.68,"body":"And then, and typically inentrepreneurship, you always have the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3073.74,"endTime":3077.76,"body":"analogies, with, uh, relationshipsand partnerships and marriage"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3078.12,"endTime":3079.65,"body":"and getting children and stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3079.65,"endTime":3083.59,"body":"And as uh, sketchy as Ifind them, I must admit."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3083.59,"endTime":3084.28,"body":"They're super true."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3084.64,"endTime":3088.96,"body":"So, and, and how you say, like, it, ittakes a village, uh, to raise a child."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3089.02,"endTime":3093.49,"body":"Uh, I, it's the same for your startupand, uh, co foundership is as well,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3093.49,"endTime":3097.96,"body":"like marriage because when you founda company together, you're tied by a"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3097.96,"endTime":3103.39,"body":"legal contract and it's actually harder,to, uh, untie this than a marriage."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3104.77,"endTime":3107.89,"body":"Uh, especially once there wasalready a valuation or something."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3107.89,"endTime":3112.69,"body":"So these, even though I have this,and yeah, this analogy actually is"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3112.69,"endTime":3116.895,"body":"somehow true, but, um, uh, gettingto more of the positive aspect, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3117.01,"endTime":3120.28,"body":"uh, I want to rather highlight isit needs a village to raise a child."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3120.28,"endTime":3121.81,"body":"And the same applies for your startup."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3121.81,"endTime":3126.04,"body":"And so get all the support youcan get and have strong network."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3126.559,"endTime":3128.829,"body":"and, uh, yeah, this will carry you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3129.049,"endTime":3129.339,"body":"Kevin: yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3130.159,"endTime":3137.644,"body":"Also gives the motivation to carryon when there are some, like in every"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3137.644,"endTime":3142.024,"body":"research projects, there are some hardtimes where nothing seems to work."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3142.024,"endTime":3145.744,"body":"And I imagine that's similar instartups and when you have a good team"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3145.924,"endTime":3146.554,"body":"Christina: Yes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3146.854,"endTime":3148.054,"body":"Kevin: really carries you forward."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3148.846,"endTime":3149.116,"body":"Christina: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3149.596,"endTime":3149.746,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3149.746,"endTime":3155.026,"body":"So if, uh, even before consideringprobably a building, uh, a company"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3155.026,"endTime":3159.736,"body":"or something, course I remember aswell back from the time that I was"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3159.736,"endTime":3161.986,"body":"a more nerdy scientist as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3161.986,"endTime":3163.276,"body":"Networking can be learned."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3163.366,"endTime":3165.466,"body":"So you probably startwith networking first,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3165.751,"endTime":3166.501,"body":"Kevin: definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3166.906,"endTime":3170.811,"body":"Christina: Um, and thensee what it brings."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3170.951,"endTime":3176.536,"body":"But yeah, I think this was, uh, the mostimportant learnings that I needed to"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3176.536,"endTime":3181.006,"body":"make in my life is, is to ask questionsand not to be afraid to ask questions."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3181.456,"endTime":3184.911,"body":"Um, and, start networking."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3185.151,"endTime":3185.421,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3186.861,"endTime":3187.521,"body":"Knowing the right people really helps."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3188.809,"endTime":3189.499,"body":"Christina: and and yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3189.708,"endTime":3194.018,"body":"if you have an idea then tell asmany people about it as possible"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3195.383,"endTime":3196.373,"body":"Kevin: I think that's also"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3196.613,"endTime":3201.083,"body":"contrary to this cliche that whenyou have a great idea, you must"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3201.083,"endTime":3206.003,"body":"not share it because someone elsemight take your idea and start it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3208.328,"endTime":3210.218,"body":"Christina: Uh, well, of courseyou need to differentiate,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3210.278,"endTime":3212.318,"body":"uh, like can I talk about it?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3212.348,"endTime":3215.678,"body":"Uh, because if you want topatent something, of course"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3215.678,"endTime":3217.238,"body":"it cannot be published before."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3217.458,"endTime":3219.258,"body":"But just having an idea."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3219.258,"endTime":3224.453,"body":"Um, well, there is as well, likein our case, there are so few"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3224.453,"endTime":3226.013,"body":"people who would dare try it."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3227.058,"endTime":3228.983,"body":"It makes much more sense to talk."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3229.478,"endTime":3233.528,"body":"About it with as many people as possiblywill, because only that way you find"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3233.528,"endTime":3237.578,"body":"out if it interests other people, if itsparks interest with potential customers."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3237.908,"endTime":3243.668,"body":"Uh, and if you can find like people thatcan open doors or bring other ideas to it,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3243.728,"endTime":3246.428,"body":"uh, I was for example, super surprised."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3247.058,"endTime":3251.798,"body":"Uh, I just did not think about itbefore, but many investors actually"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3251.798,"endTime":3256.718,"body":"own ships because, rich people and onlyrich people can afford to have a ship."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3256.778,"endTime":3263.138,"body":"But then they have probably coded themselfand they do have an intrinsic, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3263.138,"endTime":3267.708,"body":"motivation to support me, even thoughthey might not see it as an investor case."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3267.738,"endTime":3268.218,"body":"Uh, but."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3268.968,"endTime":3272.408,"body":"But they really, love the idea andsupport other ways or whatever."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3272.588,"endTime":3276.128,"body":"So you never, you never knowwhat connection can lead"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3276.128,"endTime":3277.858,"body":"to something meaningful."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3278.128,"endTime":3281.608,"body":"And, and this is, uh, why you shouldtalk with as many people as possible."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3281.608,"endTime":3284.693,"body":"And there are only very few peoplethat would like, be so crazy"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3284.693,"endTime":3290.013,"body":"and just, uh, change their wholelife and take your idea and yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3290.013,"endTime":3290.583,"body":"It's crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3290.913,"endTime":3296.823,"body":"No, it's very, it's so super unlikely tohappen and it much more makes sense, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3296.883,"endTime":3301.533,"body":"to, yeah, to to tell as many people aspossible to get feedback, to get ideas,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3301.533,"endTime":3304.533,"body":"to get connections, yet to get support."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3305.103,"endTime":3305.973,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3306.513,"endTime":3308.463,"body":"Thank you for that, uh, insight."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3308.973,"endTime":3314.913,"body":"And, uh, now we can come to theclosing question of this episode,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3315.243,"endTime":3318.783,"body":"which is again, what is yourfavorite discovery in chemistry?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3319.227,"endTime":3321.267,"body":"I know you're not a chemist, but still"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3322.777,"endTime":3326.712,"body":"Christina: luckily you, uh, sent thatquestion beforehand because Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3326.712,"endTime":3328.962,"body":"Uh, this is actually howI would start the answer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3328.962,"endTime":3330.372,"body":"I'm not a chemist by training."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3330.702,"endTime":3332.142,"body":"Uh, I'm more an engineer."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3332.172,"endTime":3337.612,"body":"Uh, so I had, um there's always sofunny when you have physical and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3337.612,"endTime":3341.242,"body":"chemistry and then the physics, peoplealways say everything is physics."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3341.242,"endTime":3343.402,"body":"And the chemistry peoplesay everything is chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3344.902,"endTime":3348.412,"body":"And then especially in my case, I hadto deal a lot with physical chemistry."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3350.392,"endTime":3357.562,"body":"So I've definitely not, uh, taking,uh, one of these, I think, um um"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3359.362,"endTime":3361.732,"body":"um, I think both have a point."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3361.832,"endTime":3366.002,"body":"But what, intrigued me themost actually is biochemistry,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3366.632,"endTime":3368.102,"body":"because I, I mean, I, I don't."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3368.642,"endTime":3371.582,"body":"Belief in, in a religion or anything."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3371.882,"endTime":3379.142,"body":"But when I was in this biochemistry, uhlectures and figured out, what all has"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3379.592,"endTime":3385.862,"body":"to come together and into place that ispossible for us to live and this planet"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3385.862,"endTime":3390.992,"body":"and everything, and how these tinyelectrons jumping here and there, and"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3390.992,"endTime":3395.552,"body":"how our body is generating energy andall this stuff, I find this is a miracle."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3396.002,"endTime":3401.522,"body":"And there I really, I, I felt like,I like this awe feeling I think that"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3401.582,"endTime":3405.422,"body":"other people have when they can trulybelieve in the religion or something."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3405.752,"endTime":3409.562,"body":"It's not that I'm believing, but,but it's just these, these all"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3409.562,"endTime":3412.142,"body":"before creation and that it's."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3412.952,"endTime":3414.722,"body":"Possible for us to live here."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3415.172,"endTime":3417.482,"body":"And it's such an amazing,nice blue planet."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3418.052,"endTime":3420.962,"body":"This is, it's not a discovery,I think it's in itself."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3420.962,"endTime":3424.622,"body":"Like, I don't know if you saw ofsome invention, life, life changing"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3424.622,"endTime":3426.182,"body":"or human kind, changing invention."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3426.482,"endTime":3429.482,"body":"But this is just something thatcame first into my mind with this"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3429.482,"endTime":3430.742,"body":"question that I really find it"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3431.102,"endTime":3431.762,"body":"amazing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3432.302,"endTime":3432.542,"body":"Kevin: Yeah,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3432.812,"endTime":3437.192,"body":"Christina: Um, and as well thatour brain, that we can analyze"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3437.192,"endTime":3440.882,"body":"this and figure this out and yeah,I think like this whole thing,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3441.092,"endTime":3441.242,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3441.602,"endTime":3442.262,"body":"Christina: um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3442.532,"endTime":3442.712,"body":"Kevin: Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3442.712,"endTime":3445.382,"body":"That's, uh, super fascinating."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3445.532,"endTime":3451.942,"body":"And also the more advanced our instrumentsget, the more stuff we can find."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3451.942,"endTime":3453.772,"body":"And there's always more to discover."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3453.772,"endTime":3455.482,"body":"This really mind blowing."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3455.482,"endTime":3462.412,"body":"The more we look into it, the more newfindings we get that have to improve"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3462.682,"endTime":3465.802,"body":"lives, find new medicines, for example."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3465.802,"endTime":3467.302,"body":"And that's, yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3467.752,"endTime":3469.432,"body":"Really fascinating"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3469.612,"endTime":3471.472,"body":"Christina: is actuallyvery interesting as well."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3472.222,"endTime":3476.109,"body":"So many, many corals and other,deep sea organisms, uh, creating"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3476.109,"endTime":3479.979,"body":"really interesting substances thatcould help us in medicine and stuff."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3480.039,"endTime":3480.189,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3480.189,"endTime":3481.479,"body":"All these kind of things, but yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3481.479,"endTime":3481.489,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3481.489,"endTime":3483.319,"body":"I mean, these arediscoveries as well, right?"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3483.929,"endTime":3489.521,"body":"Like the, the latest, uh, discoverythere was, I think from Octopus, uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3489.671,"endTime":3494.176,"body":"something, and this is actually as well,super, like they are chromophore, um."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3495.626,"endTime":3495.986,"body":"Uh,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3496.016,"endTime":3501.206,"body":"skin, uh, it's like they are seeing withtheir skin and this is how they can mimic,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3501.206,"endTime":3503.996,"body":"um, and, and take up all the colors."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3504.296,"endTime":3504.776,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3505.076,"endTime":3509.546,"body":"I don't get it completely, but um, asa recent discovery is about, uh, the"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3509.646,"endTime":3514.517,"body":"octopus is changing color and how it'sperceiving the environment with the skin"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3514.517,"endTime":3518.057,"body":"so that he can do that actually, and howthis chromophores in his skin is working."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3518.417,"endTime":3521.647,"body":"Uh, there's something super,inspiring as and crazy."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3521.767,"endTime":3522.127,"body":"It's like, whoa."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3522.352,"endTime":3527.587,"body":"Kevin: Yeah, and as you said earlier,everything is somehow explainable by"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3527.587,"endTime":3533.287,"body":"chemistry and physics, and that's theway it all makes it also very interesting"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3533.287,"endTime":3535.447,"body":"to be in this kind of research."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3535.807,"endTime":3536.017,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3536.017,"endTime":3540.787,"body":"Thank you very much for all theseinsight and this, uh, very interesting"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3540.787,"endTime":3545.835,"body":"discussion about your companyand the Biofouling prevention."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3546.315,"endTime":3547.065,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3547.53,"endTime":3548.04,"body":"Christina: Thank you."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3548.292,"endTime":3548.802,"body":"For having me."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3549.748,"endTime":3552.748,"body":"Kevin: If you got interested insustainable ship coatings, check"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3552.748,"endTime":3557.128,"body":"out Clean Ocean Coatings websitewith the link in the show notes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3557.878,"endTime":3558.298,"body":"Also."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3558.298,"endTime":3560.278,"body":"Thank you very much for listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3560.428,"endTime":3563.518,"body":"Please set the follow buttonon where you listening."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3563.518,"endTime":3564.988,"body":"This really helps more than you think."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3566.038,"endTime":3570.988,"body":"And contact me if you want totalk about your research in"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3570.988,"endTime":3572.878,"body":"one of the upcoming episodes."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3573.748,"endTime":3575.968,"body":"Either send me an email tocontact@innovateandreact.com"},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3577.998,"endTime":3579.378,"body":"or connect with me on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":null,"startTime":3579.828,"endTime":3582.768,"body":"Until next time, keepinnovating and stay curious."}]}